The Darius Garland Thread

[Sunburn]

White has very good shot mechanics as well. I don't understand when I see people post he needs to fix his mechanics.

 

[Mainstreet]

This. Now that Morant appears to be off the board for the Suns? They need a legit veteran PG no matter who they draft.

This is what it amounts too. The Suns need a veteran point guard ahead of either Garland or White. I felt the same about Morant.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I take the best pure shooter of the two.

Basketball is a pretty simple game. Score more than the other team and you win. The guy who is better at the primary goal of basketball should be the pick. Don't go down the Josh Jackson rabbit hole again! The reason I wasn't a JJ fan when he was coming out is that everything everyone said about him relied upon him developing a game. I was a Jayson Tatum fan because he was already good at putting the ball in the basket. Draft the guy that is most likely to help immediately.

 

[slinslin]

This. Now that Morant appears to be off the board for the Suns? They need a legit veteran PG no matter who they draft.

They just need someone like TJ Mcconnell who has no problem going to the bench role as soon as Garland is ready.

 

[Mainstreet]

I have the opposite impression. I think it is much more likely that Garland is steady because his game looks clean and he knows his spots well and does not hesitate. While my impression of White is that he is going to be more of a guy that lacks definition of what he really wants to do.

I would not be upset if the Suns drafted Garland or White. Garland's history of injury caused me to start looking at White. The more I watched White, the more I liked him especially at 6' 5." I liked Shai in the last draft so perhaps there is some carry over on my part.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am convinced that the Lakers will draft Garland. Its all over their board now.

 

[Covert Rain]

I am convinced that the Lakers will draft Garland. Its all over their board now.

If so, White appears to be our guy. I don't know but with either of those guys on the board I am leaning towards them trading the pick away to get a legit PG from another team that is ready now.

 

[1Sun]

They just need someone like TJ Mcconnell who has no problem going to the bench role as soon as Garland is ready.

Except McConnell is nowhere near starting caliber in the meantime.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Don't get me wrong. I think Garland has better mechanics and can shoot. However, expecting him to shoot anything like Step in the NBA is fodder. There is only one Step and that happens usually once a generation. Garland will be streaky and make a living from the outside. At his height and size he isn't doing much around the rim and I am more worried about him matching up against other guards defensively.

White on the other hand has his own issues. He needs to improve his mechanics, has too many turnovers and his shot selection sometimes is off. Although I love his strength and aggressive play to the rim. He will make a living at the line in the NBA and it will be hard for opposing guards to shoot over him.

Bottom line? I wish we were talking about Morant. I bet if he is there the Suns go with Garland. Like I said. I am OK with either at this point but we need a veteran guard as well.

I'm not even close to expecting him to be THAT good of a shooter. He doesn't need to be that good though to be an elite shooter and have a strong impact on winning games.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not even close to expecting him to be THAT good of a shooter. He doesn't need to be that good though to be an elite shooter and have a strong impact on winning games.

Steph is considered an elite shooter. That's only a handful of people. So you don't expect him to be that close but expect him to be elite? Do you mean a very good shooter? If so, OK.

However, we have had a ton of "elite" shooters come into this league who have not done anything in terms of helping their teams win titles. Sure it was exciting to watch looked good but you need a PG to be MORE than that. I don't see him ever being a great defender, assist guy or anything else. Just my two cents.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Steph is considered an elite shooter. That's only a handful of people. So you don't expect him to be that close but expect him to be elite? Do you mean a very good shooter? If so, OK.

However, we have had a ton of "elite" shooters come into this league who have not done anything in terms of helping their teams win titles. Sure it was exciting to watch looked good but you need a PG to be MORE than that. I don't see him ever being a great defender, assist guy or anything else. Just my two cents.

Elite is when you do something at a level that only a small percentage do as well. Steph is not only elite, but the absolute best in the game and in all likelihood of all time.

 

[Yuma]

Elite is when you do something at a level that only a small percentage do as well. Steph is not only elite, but the absolute best in the game and in all likelihood of all time.

Pretty much reaching all the three point milestones faster than anyone in history.

 

[Proximo]

If so, White appears to be our guy. I don't know but with either of those guys on the board I am leaning towards them trading the pick away to get a legit PG from another team that is ready now.

No he isn't.

It is going to be culver or hunter or maybe even Reddish over him.

That dude is a very small upgrade over okobo/melton - especially if they work on their shots this summer.

Suns are far better off going BPA.

 

[leclerc]

Looks like a good choice at #6. Certainly at a position of need to put it mildly.

Good to see you posting again, slin!

 

[leclerc]

Hahah I called the Lonzo for the #6 last night.

Blargh I don't want Lonzo. Can't we for once get a point guard that can dribble, pass and shoot? It's been too long.

I hope Okobo and/or Melton surprises us this summer with huge strides, but sadly that never happens so I doubt we'll see them again. Remind me, did we give Okobo a longer rookie deal than the regular short one for late first/second round rooks?

 

[Chaplin]

No he isn't.

It is going to be culver or hunter or maybe even Reddish over him.

That dude is a very small upgrade over okobo/melton - especially if they work on their shots this summer.

Suns are far better off going BPA.

Reddish ain't happening. No way.

 

[Proximo]

Reddish ain't happening. No way.

Probably not - but most have him rated over White.

 

[Covert Rain]

No he isn't.

It is going to be culver or hunter or maybe even Reddish over him.

That dude is a very small upgrade over okobo/melton - especially if they work on their shots this summer.

Suns are far better off going BPA.

Not a chance they pick Reddish there.

 

[Hoop Head]

I've tried watching some Garland videos on Youtube and it wouldn't shock me if he ends up like Brandon Jennings. Flashy for a year or two with some big games as far as stats are concerned but never buys into being a team first player and is out of the league to be the man overseas.

That said I'm not as high on White as I was pre-lottery either. I think he's much more of a combo guard than PG. I could see White having a Tyreke Evans type of career where he struggles to find a position in the league and bounces around a lot because of that.

If only there were teams that were rumored to be very high on this draft class that were looking to trade into the lottery. I'd feel better if I thought we could trade the pick for a starter but I think the only sort of starter we could get would be a Jeremy Lin type of player.

 

[1Sun]

No he isn't.

It is going to be culver or hunter or maybe even Reddish over him.

That dude is a very small upgrade over okobo/melton - especially if they work on their shots this summer.

Suns are far better off going BPA.

And Culver is a significant downgrade from each and every one of our wings, with the exception of Daniels (and I don't consider Culver all that much of an upgrade on Daniels) and Tyler Johnson (who I want gone, and from whom Culver is a downgrade, albeit not significant). Culver is basically Tyler Johnson with an even worse shot. Drafting Culver at 6 is almost as bad as trading for Lonzo Ball.

 

[1Sun]

Blargh I don't want Lonzo. Can't we for once get a point guard that can dribble, pass and shoot? It's been too long.

I hope Okobo and/or Melton surprises us this summer with huge strides, but sadly that never happens so I doubt we'll see them again. Remind me, did we give Okobo a longer rookie deal than the regular short one for late first/second round rooks?

Yes. Okobo has a 4 year deal.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Anyone watch Coby Whites last game at NC. Thats the White you would get in the NBA lost and confused.

 

[Yuma]

It will be interesting, because I am not sure we can trade the pick at #6. If we as casual fans don't like any of the guys there, what do real GMs think? We may be STUCK with the pick. It's easy to say trade the pick, but really someone has to WANT it. Maybe teams in the playoffs up against the cap to get players cheaper, but that's kind of a reach. That's why I was SO hoping we would get at least the third pick at worst. Going to be a hard off season for James Jones. We have wings. That's about it! LOL! Everyone has SFs though. We are kinda screwed. I think we end up with White. Just a feeling.

 

[Hoop Head]

It will be interesting, because I am not sure we can trade the pick at #6. If we as casual fans don't like any of the guys there, what do real GMs think? We may be STUCK with the pick. It's easy to say trade the pick, but really someone has to WANT it. Maybe teams in the playoffs up against the cap to get players cheaper, but that's kind of a reach. That's why I was SO hoping we would get at least the third pick at worst. Going to be a hard off season for James Jones. We have wings. That's about it! LOL! Everyone has SFs though. We are kinda screwed. I think we end up with White. Just a feeling.

I don't think we can trade the pick for a good player but I can see it being dealt for a future pick pretty easily. Of course doing that is a real gamble because the odds of receiving a lottery pick in return is slim, especially a top 6 pick. However if we could get 2 future 1st's from a team, that might even things out some as far as if the picks we receive end up being midround 1st's. I think trading down and acquiring a future 1st with the lower pick this year is probably the most likely trade scenario available. Whether that is a good move or not depends on the team and any protection on the future pick.

If say Detroit was willing to trade a future 1st and their pick this year to get #6, I'd be ok with that even if the future pick was protected top 3 for the next year or two. Their pick is #15 this year and that would free up about $1.5-2.0 million in cap space this year. I found rookie scale salary info for 2017-18 and the #6 pick received $3.48 in year one compared to $1.97 for the #15. I'm not sure of the numbers this year, as I'm sure they've gone up but we can expect those sort of savings at the minimum.

 

[Yuma]

I don't think we can trade the pick for a good player but I can see it being dealt for a future pick pretty easily. Of course doing that is a real gamble because the odds of receiving a lottery pick in return is slim, especially a top 6 pick. However if we could get 2 future 1st's from a team, that might even things out some as far as if the picks we receive end up being midround 1st's. I think trading down and acquiring a future 1st with the lower pick this year is probably the most likely trade scenario available. Whether that is a good move or not depends on the team and any protection on the future pick.

If say Detroit was willing to trade a future 1st and their pick this year to get #6, I'd be ok with that even if the future pick was protected top 3 for the next year or two. Their pick is #15 this year and that would free up about $1.5-2.0 million in cap space this year. I found rookie scale salary info for 2017-18 and the #6 pick received $3.48 in year one compared to $1.97 for the #15. I'm not sure of the numbers this year, as I'm sure they've gone up but we can expect those sort of savings at the minimum.

The only problem is all the guys in the first round past pick three are all similarly graded. If you don't trade up to get Coby White, just wait and get another PG that is similar. Not really any incentive to move up. If there was a big, not even huge, drop off after pick six, we would be OK. When all the guys are similar, why move at all? Not arguing just to argue. I just don't see that good a value or reason to move up. There are guys similar to Garret and White lower down. I think everyone would move down, except maybe the top three teams. I am just saying Jones has a real difficult assignment this year. Maybe not the best time to take over as GM.