The Decline and Fall of Amare

[nashman]

After watching Amare last night I am starting to believe he has a foot out the door already!

 

[nashman]

Where's the fire? I mean he seems to just not care, its very disheartening!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Go for it.

2004-5 Playoffs:

Game 1 - 27 points, 10 asst, 8 rebounds
Game 3 - 36 points, 10 asst, 9 rebounds

2005-6 Playoffs:

Basically the entire playoffs where he averaged 29.6 ppg, 7 rebounds, 5 asst.

Here's the link for all the monster games he had that year... which led to his team being SWEPT in the 2nd round.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3248/gamelog;_ylt=AgJA0342lSVWtrqucVpAEhU5PKB4?year=2005

They're the same type of player... guys who play no defense who put up gaudy stats that make very little impact and quit on their teams.

 

[Bufalay]

2004-5 Playoffs:

Game 1 - 27 points, 10 asst, 8 rebounds
Game 3 - 36 points, 10 asst, 9 rebounds

2005-6 Playoffs:

Basically the entire playoffs where he averaged 29.6 ppg, 7 rebounds, 5 asst.

Here's the link for all the monster games he had that year... which led to his team being SWEPT in the 2nd round.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3248/gamelog;_ylt=AgJA0342lSVWtrqucVpAEhU5PKB4?year=2005

They're the same type of player... guys who play no defense who put up gaudy stats that make very little impact and quit on their teams.

Whoa, Vince Carter is better than I thought.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Whoa, Vince Carter is better than I thought.

that's just the thing... he's not and neither is Amare. They're stat players (hell, Amare even CALLS HIMSELF Stat) who make very little impact on the game. They get their numbers, but they rarely make an impact.

 

[Renz]

Barkley had the line of the night last night:

Q: What do you call a power forward who gets 3 rebounds?

A: A small forward.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Barkley had the line of the night last night:

Q: What do you call a power forward who gets 3 rebounds?

A: A small forward.

LMAO... has there ever been a 6'10" small forward?? If not - we got a first here in PHX!!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

i love that people on here are discounting malone b/c he played with stockton while ignoring the fact that amare is playing with nash. hilarious.

I believe it to be true. Amare on the offensive end has the abilty to create his own shot more, much more than Malone ever did.

just this morning i heard an unbiased host talking about how much poorer of an offensive player amare would be without nash. and while i don't necessarily concur with that point, i think it's equally silly to make the pg argument about one of these guys without making it about the other.

He probably would be somewhat. Again, I believe that Amare's ability to create his own shot is/was better than Malone's. Even in his prime. So yes, Amare's game probably would suffer, but not as much as Malone's.

btw, for whomever said the jazz never had any additional offensive firepower around malone, you're wrong. horny was a serious offensive threat, as was thurl bailey in his time, and bryon russell.

I said that he didn't have as much. I didn't say any. Distinct difference.

these arguments are grasping at straws. i figure those on here that are arguing that amare is a better offensive player than was malone are younger and didn't really have an opportunity to watch the mailman in his prime. malone is still considered in the argument for best PF of all time. amare wouldn't (yet) be mentioned in that conversation.

Not this person. I saw Malone in his prime.

Again, I would take Amare's offensive game over Malone's. I doubt Amare will be considered a top 10PF because of his defensive deficiencies. Malone was the better player overall and will have a longer better career as a result.

People are taking my comment about rather having Amare on this team right now vs Malone and equating that to mean that Amare is the superior player. That's not what I said at all.

 

[Cheesebeef]

People are taking my comment about rather having Amare on this team right now vs Malone and equating that to mean that Amare is the superior player. That's not what I said at all.

whoa... you said you'd rather have Amare on this team than an in his prime Karl Malone? That lunacy DCR. Malone would be boarding, and throwing Gasol around like a rag-doll. He'd also be drawing fouls on their bigs like crazy, not to mention knowing when to throw a pass and when not to throw a pass like Amare did TWICE to Nash, under the basket surrounded by 3 7 footers, just a couple amongst the volume of ridiculously stupid plays he made last night and almost always makes.

And before you say Malone wouldn't do it against this front-line, Malone KILLED the Lakers front line of Shaq and Elden Campbell back in the day REPEATEDLY. Those were two HUGE 7-footers and Malone would punish the hell out of them on offense and rebound like a mother.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

whoa... you said you'd rather have Amare on this team than an in his prime Karl Malone? That lunacy DCR. Malone would be boarding, and throwing Gasol around like a rag-doll. He'd also be drawing fouls on their bigs like crazy, not to mention knowing when to throw a pass and when not to throw a pass like Amare did TWICE to Nash, under the basket surrounded by 3 7 footers, just a couple amongst the volume of ridiculously stupid plays he made last night and almost always makes.

And before you say Malone wouldn't do it against this front-line, Malone KILLED the Lakers front line of Shaq and Elden Campbell back in the day REPEATEDLY. Those were two HUGE 7-footers and Malone would punish the hell out of them on offense and rebound like a mother.

OFFENSIVELY only. I think this is being lost in translation.

I'll be in the minority on this and that's fine. It's the 'in' thing to do; being down on Amare. I'm down on his defensive performance too. It is unexcusable.

 

[82CardsGrad]

OFFENSIVELY only. I think this is being lost in translation.

No... it's not being lost... you're WHACKED dude!

 

[Cheesebeef]

OFFENSIVELY only. I think this is being lost in translation.

but aren't we seeing how limited Amare is offensively right now? Whenever he faces ANY kind of decent size, his offensive game shrivels up. He's a non-factor out there... just as he was against Portland and for large portions of the SA series.

 

[Cheesebeef]

OFFENSIVELY only. I think this is being lost in translation.

I'll be in the minority on this and that's fine. It's the 'in' thing to do; being down on Amare. I'm down on his defensive performance too. It is unexcusable.

this isn't about the "in" thing to do to say that Karl Malone, one of the greatest PF of all time and probably the greatest OFFENSIVE PF of all time, is better than Amare at, well, every facet of the game.

 

[Mulli]

Dcr, you are whacked.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It's the 'in' thing to do; being down on Amare.

You really think this is a popularity thing, and not a performance thing? Defensively he's been atrocious, we can all agree on that. Offensively, he's been passive, and of little threat to the Lakers in terms of demanding double teams or drawing fouls.

Any way you cut it, he's been more of a liability than an asset on the floor, and for the life of me, I can't understand why Gentry didn't bring in Lopez to guard Gasol in the 4th. He was just dominating Amare on every possession, which forced the Suns to double and help, and the defense completely broke down.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

this isn't about the "in" thing to do to say that Karl Malone,

Huh, again, I'm talking about Amare. I didn't say it wasn't about Malone.

one of the greatest PF of all time

Of course I agree

and probably the greatest OFFENSIVE PF of all time,

I'll disagree here and raise you with Duncan.

is better than Amare at, well, every facet of the game.

I'll disagree here too and leave it at that.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You really think this is a popularity thing, and not a performance thing? Defensively he's been atrocious, we can all agree on that. Offensively, he's been passive, and of little threat to the Lakers in terms of demanding double teams or drawing fouls.

Offensively, Yes.

Any way you cut it, he's been more of a liability than an asset on the floor, and for the life of me, I can't understand why Gentry didn't bring in Lopez to guard Gasol in the 4th. He was just dominating Amare on every possession, which forced the Suns to double and help, and the defense completely broke down.

I'm not disagreeing. He was horrible defensively. Where did you ever thing that I was defending him defensively?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Dcr, you are whacked.

Not the first or the last time I have been called that.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Any way you cut it, he's been more of a liability than an asset on the floor, and for the life of me, I can't understand why Gentry didn't bring in Lopez to guard Gasol in the 4th.

I would've left him too, maybe that public flogging is what Amare needs to wake up.

I'll give it to LA, they were killers last night. That fourth quarter looked like the Jordan Bulls whose opponent knew what they were going to do yet were powerless to stop it. Amare looked like the biggest chump in the NBA.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

but aren't we seeing how limited Amare is offensively right now? Whenever he faces ANY kind of decent size, his offensive game shrivels up. He's a non-factor out there... just as he was against Portland and for large portions of the SA series.

You are 100% correct!

The problem Amare faces when playing front lines with size, is that he has ZERO back to the basket game. He fronts players every single time he catches the ball and either shoots a 15 foot jump shot or drives to the hole.

The Lakers pack the paint which basically takes away the drive every time. Max players or leaders would figure out a way to impact the game other then scoring. Problem for Amare, is scoring is 100% of his game...take that away and he is worthless.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You are 100% correct!

The problem Amare faces when playing front lines with size, is that he has ZERO back to the basket game. He fronts players every single time he catches the ball and either shoots a 15 foot jump shot or drives to the hole.

The Lakers pack the paint which basically takes away the drive every time. Max players or leaders would figure out a way to impact the game other then scoring. Problem for Amare, is scoring is 100% of his game...take that away and he is worthless.

That's not true or fair. Amare has had his way with Camby, Duncan, Howard, Yao etc in the past. The Portland series, Amare was sometimes the 3rd or 4th option. He played very well offensively.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm not disagreeing. He was horrible defensively. Where did you ever thing that I was defending him defensively?

I didn't, and certainly wasn't insinuating that you were.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's not true or fair. Amare has had his way with Camby, Duncan, Howard, Yao etc in the past. The Portland series, Amare was sometimes the 3rd or 4th option. He played very well offensively.

I didn't think he played all that well against Portland. He was the 3rd or 4th option because he stopped playing like the number 1 option. I really think you guys have missed this because we kept winning but I don't think he looked any different against Portland and SA than he has against LA. A little less effective perhaps, but not by much. He hasn't been shut down by opponents, he's been shut down by himself.

Steve

 

[padsboltsbearssuns]

After last night's debacle I am convinced Amare is gone this summer. If he had not already decided to leave his embarrassing no show yesterday will likely shame him out of town. I am actually a fan of Amare's but I see this performance convincing the Suns he is not a max player.

I think we need to make an early run at David Lee while everyone waits for the big fish to sign. Lee is young, rebounds and seems to always play hard. He isn't a powerhouse at the offensive end like Amare but does score 20 per in essentially the same system in NY. Do you guys think we can offer him 13 million per over 5 years and grab him? This would save us 5 million over Amare's contract if my info is correct. We would be better defensively and I think we would have enough offensively to be competitive.

Any other options? Boozer? Bosh? I don't think the Suns have wallets big enough for those guys and I don't see any other options out there.

 

[jagu]

I like Lee, he's a lot smarter than Amare. No one would stand above their player like he did against Gasol in the 4th. Amare might as well set the pick for Kobe in that play lol. It's an easy bucket at least make it easier for Kobe. I can understand 2nd year players like Dragic or Rolo doing that. Rolo is a lot smarter on D than Amare, not as gifted. Rolo can accidentally get 6 rebounds in a game. I think the Suns should make a push for Bosh (if they can dump Barblowsa and Chicken Frye) and this team would still be highly dangerous and more experienced. I don't know how to make it work fiscally but you have to rid yourself of one-dimensional players.

J-Rich, I hope we can keep him in Arizona for a while. He has balls man. Great player and has a killer instinct.