The Decline and Fall of Amare

[Cheesebeef]

I didn't think he played all that well against Portland. He was the 3rd or 4th option because he stopped playing like the number 1 option. I really think you guys have missed this because we kept winning but I don't think he looked any different against Portland and SA than he has against LA. A little less effective perhaps, but not by much. He hasn't been shut down by opponents, he's been shut down by himself.

Steve

I whole-heartedly agree.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I like Lee, he's a lot smarter than Amare. No one would stand above their player like he did against Gasol in the 4th. Amare might as well set the pick for Kobe in that play lol. It's an easy bucket at least make it easier for Kobe. I can understand 2nd year players like Dragic or Rolo doing that. Rolo is a lot smarter on D than Amare, not as gifted. Rolo can accidentally get 6 rebounds in a game. I think the Suns should make a push for Bosh (if they can dump Barblowsa and Chicken Frye) and this team would still be highly dangerous and more experienced. I don't know how to make it work fiscally but you have to rid yourself of one-dimensional players.

J-Rich, I hope we can keep him in Arizona for a while. He has balls man. Great player and has a killer instinct.

I wouldn't mind going after Lee if the price is right but I don't think he's worth a max contract. If we can get him for 12-14 mil to start it would be a good signing. Unfortunately, I think he'll pick up a better contract than warranted once the 1st tier players are gone and some team with cap room takes him as consolation.

Steve

 

[padsboltsbearssuns]

J-Rich, I hope we can keep him in Arizona for a while. He has balls man. Great player and has a killer instinct.

Yes I agree. He seems to have found his spot as far as mixing up the threes and slashing. When we first got him I thought we got a chucker like Qrich

 

[padsboltsbearssuns]

I wouldn't mind going after Lee if the price is right but I don't think he's worth a max contract. If we can get him for 12-14 mil to start it would be a good signing. Unfortunately, I think he'll pick up a better contract than warranted once the 1st tier players are gone and some team with cap room takes him as consolation.

Steve

You're right and that's why we need to make a run at him early.

 

[elindholm]

You know what particularly impresses me about Lee? He averages 3.6 assists per game. On the Knicks! Here is the list of big men with a better assist average this past season:

Josh Smith 4.2
Boris Diaw 4.0

That's it. Lee is third in the league for assists by a PF or C.

He's not just a stat-stuffer. He makes plays for others and is a genuine contributor. The Suns could do a lot worse.

 

[asuhoopsnut]

How are the Suns going to be able to pay Lee or any other free agent this year? If Amare walks, we will not have his salary to use on another free agent this year. They will not be able to make a big free agent splash until 2011.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't really like Lee.He is also a horrible defender. If your going to get rid of Amare and start over, at least get a guy who can play defense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't really like Lee. Is is also a horrible defender. If your going to get rid of Amare and start over, at least get a guy who can play defense.

agreed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't really like Lee.He is also a horrible defender. If your going to get rid of Amare and start over, at least get a guy who can play defense.

Find me a power forward that can score and play defense that we can afford and I'm all for it. Like I said, at 12-14 mil Lee is a nice signing but I've always maintained that he is a step down from Amare and the team that pays him like a superstar will end up regretting it. Oh, and while his defense is nothing to get excited about at least he rebounds consistently.

Steve

 

[joshstmarie]

Find me a power forward that can score and play defense that we can afford and I'm all for it. Like I said, at 12-14 mil Lee is a nice signing but I've always maintained that he is a step down from Amare and the team that pays him like a superstar will end up regretting it. Oh, and while his defense is nothing to get excited about at least he rebounds consistently.

Steve

Exactly, at least with lee you know NO MATTER WHAT hes going to pull down 9-15 rebounds a game. You can almost count the sub 10 rebound games on two hands.

 

[Bufalay]

So Lee is like Marion except that he scores less and sucks at defense?

 

[asuhoopsnut]

Why are you guys continuing to talk about signing Lee and other free agents this year? If Amare walks after this season, the Suns will not be able to use his salary on another free agent this year. They will not be able to use the money until 2011!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Why are you guys continuing to talk about signing Lee and other free agents this year? If Amare walks after this season, you will not be able to use his salary on another free agent this year. You will not be able to use the money until 2011!

Maybe because there's a few thousand ways this team can free up enough space to sign another player starting but not ending with a sign and trade. BTW, the previous statement might be an exaggeration.

Steve

 

[asuhoopsnut]

Maybe because there's a few thousand ways this team can free up enough space to sign another player starting but not ending with a sign and trade. BTW, the previous statement might be an exaggeration.

Steve

Not going to be as easy as you profess it to be. They will be stuck with only a mid-level contract to give this year. It won't be a pretty scenario to lose Amare, no first round draft pick, and not much cap space to go after a big time free agent.

 

[jagu]

I think Lee is a good fit.

1. Knows run and gun
2. Makes assists (finds open men and that suits this offense)
3. Loves to rebound and it would be great to see him and Rolo clean up glass.
4. Doesn't play defense as dumb as Amare.
5. Good stats and a pretty good J now.

 

[Covert Rain]

Not going to be as easy as you profess it to be. They will be stuck with only a mid-level contract to give this year. It won't be a pretty scenario to lose Amare, no first round draft pick, and not much cap space to go after a big time free agent.

Agreed. We have guys under contract. Without doing a bunch of trades you would never free up enough dollars to make a splash in free agency. If the Suns were going to clear up cap space they should have done that some time ago. Even if you do trade players and cut the ones you get in return, there is no guarantee that any of those guys come to play here.

Plus, the number of player you would have to cut would make the cupboards look so empty that you might have trouble getting some of those guys here.

The Suns best bet is a sign and trade deal to bring in a major piece.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not going to be as easy as you profess it to be. They will be stuck with only a mid-level contract to give this year. It won't be a pretty scenario to lose Amare, no first round draft pick, and not much cap space to go after a big time free agent.

I don't mean to suggest it will be easy and in fact it wouldn't be my first choice. My preference (should we lose Amare without compensation) would be to move as many of our higher salaried assets as possible. We're going to have to take some lumps and I'd just as soon get it done since this roster, as is or tweaked, is not likely to win it all.

Steve

 

[cly2tw]

I see a bunch of schizophrenic fellow Suns fans here.

Without Amare stepping up after ASB and playing consistently, we might not even have made it to the POs. And I don't believe we'd have beaten Blazers or Spurs with David Lee in place of Amare.

Somehow, there must be some reason that Amare lost focus in the first two games against Lakers so that he reverted to a lot of bad habits of his game up until 3-4 months ago. Lakers are good but aint that good. (They'd lose to the Celtics in the finals, if they miraculously get there. )

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I didn't think he played all that well against Portland. He was the 3rd or 4th option because he stopped playing like the number 1 option. I really think you guys have missed this because we kept winning but I don't think he looked any different against Portland and SA than he has against LA. A little less effective perhaps, but not by much. He hasn't been shut down by opponents, he's been shut down by himself.

Steve

Portland chose to double Amare and not let him beat us. It was Portland's gameplan and they were open about it, even in the media.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Portland chose to double Amare and not let him beat us. It was Portland's gameplan and they were open about it, even in the media.

All I can say is go back and watch the games, starting with the last 2 of the regular season. He just doesn't look the same out there. He's sporadic in his effort, something I did not see from him for most of the 2nd half of this season. We've seen it from him before but not typically during the postseason and not for this long of a stretch.The last time I saw him play this listlessly for such a long period was during the trade speculation.

On offense, when it looks like the play is not going to involve him he frequently just stands around. When he does get the ball he usually settles for a contested jumper rather than attack the basket. He didn't use to be afraid of every big man, as a matter of fact he use to be pretty fearless. It's pretty much the same thing on defense until his man gets the ball and by then it's often too late.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

So Lee is like Marion except that he scores less and sucks at defense?

LOL I see nobody has really answered this question. Probably because they're afraid of the answer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Without Amare stepping up after ASB and playing consistently, we might not even have made it to the POs. And I don't believe we'd have beaten Blazers or Spurs with David Lee in place of Amare.

I agree that we probaby don't make the playoffs without Amare. He's also helped us advance through the Blazers and Spurs but David Lee would have helped us more. And keep in mind, I think Amare is a full notch better than David Lee, or at least he has been in the past.

Somehow, there must be some reason that Amare lost focus in the first two games against Lakers so that he reverted to a lot of bad habits of his game up until 3-4 months ago.

I think there's a reason he lost focus in the first 2 games against the Lakers. It's the same reason he lost focus in the 12 games that preceded the Lakers series. Not sure what the reason is but I've got an idea about it.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

LOL I see nobody has really answered this question. Probably because they're afraid of the answer.

Well, from a distance Shawn Marion looked like a borderline superstar so yeah, we may be afraid that numbers don't tell the full story on Lee. He's certainly capable of playing big at times but let's face it, New York has been pitiful for a reason.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Find me a power forward that can score and play defense that we can afford and I'm all for it. Like I said, at 12-14 mil Lee is a nice signing but I've always maintained that he is a step down from Amare and the team that pays him like a superstar will end up regretting it. Oh, and while his defense is nothing to get excited about at least he rebounds consistently.

Steve

We don't need a Power Forward as good as Amare offensively. Give me a Power forward who will give me 15 points and 12 rebounds a night, play defense and I will show you a better defensive team.

Lee is uber soft and the Lakers series is proving you can't have soft big men to compete with them. Also, last time I heard Lee is looking for Max or close to max.

In terms of being able to afford someone, ofcourse I am assuming the team will go into rebuild mode and make the necessary trades to clear cap space. I don't think there is a scenario win which the Suns can pull off a trade with what they have on the books now. If the Suns don't rebuild, a sign and trade with Amare is only possibility. Even then, what are the chances anybody is going to give you anything worth keeping?

 

[AzStevenCal]

We don't need a Power Forward as good as Amare offensively. Give me a Power forward who will give me 15 points and 12 rebounds a night, play defense and I will show you a better defensive team.

Lee is uber soft and the Lakers series is proving you can't have soft big men to compete with them. Also, last time I heard Lee is looking for Max or close to max.

In terms of being able to afford someone, ofcourse I am assuming the team will go into rebuild mode and make the necessary trades to clear cap space. I don't think there is a scenario win which the Suns can pull off a trade with what they have on the books now. If the Suns don't rebuild, a sign and trade with Amare is only possibility. Even then, what are the chances anybody is going to give you anything worth keeping?

Hey, I'm all for rebuilding if Amare walks. There are a couple of moves they could make that would stave off our inevitable decline and if they make them I'll cheer them on and pray we get lucky but my preference is to gut the team. We're not going to get much for our moveable assets but at this point we have little choice IMO.

As for Lee being soft, I don't watch him enough to be certain but I remember some pretty impressive performances from him in college and prior to that. I don't think he's the player you build around but he'd be a nice complementary piece. But again, the team that pays him like a superstar will come to regret it, and quickly, IMO.

Steve