The desperate desire to trade down is frustrating

[AZ Native]

Do we want to make the same mistake twice all over again, though? First Suggs, now this.

Suggs was the 10th pick. You're are making our point.

 

[AZ Native]

I'm glad you've done your research. I just don't think people on here realize how good and advanced he is. I can't imagine the majority of Cardinals fans have ever actually seen him play and are just looking at his stats or whatever.

If this were a draft that had an elite QB that teams were dying to get a shot at, I would completely understand wanting to look at trading down. The reality is that Bosa is clearly the prize of this draft, and teams are not going to sacrifice what you would typically expect for the #1 overall pick since it won't be for a QB.

It's amazing to me that everyone on here whines about Keim's drafting, yet demands that he trades the pick so that he gets more opportunities to mangle the draft.

What is his injury history? Does that play into it?

 

[JeffGollin]

I was talking to my wife about this. We have stars around the roster; the meat of the team is what’s missing — the supporting cast that can allow the stars to shine brighter.

The best argument for trading down is that you get a better chance of filling out roster spots 10-15 with an early first and early 2nd or 3rd.

Not so sure. I feel that too often we're overmatched physically at key positions (i.e. our tacklers blown out by blockers, bounce off ballcarriers after initial contact, blockers can't handle faster or bigger than edge rushers etc. Most glaring talent-deficit is at WR.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't trade down. It's all a matter of how we want our roster to stack up and whether any deals are available that represent net-pluses for us. Rule of thumb should favor talent over quantity.

 

[scandalous_b]

What is his injury history? Does that play into it?

He tore his ACL duing his senior year of high school. Then his season ended this year with a "core muscle injury" that required surgery.

Neither injury is thought to be of any concern going forward, but I would understand if those injuries made you dig a little deeper into his health.

 

[scandalous_b]

Suggs was the 10th pick. You're are making our point.

Suggs being the 10th pick has nothing to do with anything. You can pick any spot in the draft and find an instance of where a great player was selected.

The point is that trading back provides an inherent risk because, while you have more picks, you have them for a lesser pool of talent. Do you REALLY trust Steve Keim to make the right selections in those situations? Just about everybody agrees that Nick Bosa is the premier talent and is low risk with a high reward. Why try to get cute?

 

[AZ Native]

Suggs being the 10th pick has everything to do with it. We can trade back from #1 and still get a quality pick and add more. Bosa is not a low risk. We need many top players, not 1 possibility. I would take Suggs quality player over Bosa any day. And reap the rewards of trading down.

 

[scandalous_b]

Suggs being the 10th pick has everything to do with it. We can trade back from #1 and still get a quality pick and add more. Bosa is not a low risk. We need many top players, not 1 possibility. I would take Suggs quality player over Bosa any day. And reap the rewards of trading down.

Okay well Bruce Smith was selected #1 overall, and I would take a Smith quality player over Suggs any day.

Tom Brady was selected #199 overall - maybe we should trade #1 overall for a bunch of 6th round picks so we can get another Tom Brady level player.

Do you see how terrible that logic is?

And what makes you say "Bosa is not a low risk"? Please tell me what specifically you think is going to cause him to bust.

 

[wa52lz]

He tore his ACL duing his senior year of high school. Then his season ended this year with a "core muscle injury" that required surgery.

Neither injury is thought to be of any concern going forward, but I would understand if those injuries made you dig a little deeper into his health.

What about the overall history of injury in the family, brother, dad, uncle, that is a little concerning?

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[scandalous_b]

What about the overall history of injury in the family, brother, dad, uncle, that is a little concerning?

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Joey Bosa has 28.5 sacks in 35 career games in 3 years in the NFL. That's excellent production despite missing the majority of this year with a foot injury.

His dad had a knee injury in the late 1980s when a knee injury destroyed careers.

It's a fair thing to question, but its just not something that I worry about. He had one injury in three years at Ohio State. That's not something that is going to scare me away.

 

[Buckeye Cardinal]

Nick Bosa dominated at Ohio State.

His brother Joey was drafted at #3 overall and is one of the best pass rushers currently in the NFL.

His dad was a 1st round pick as a DE.

His uncle was a 1st round pick as a DE.

What makes you think that Nick won't be good or worthy of the #1 pick?

I agree....but if we switch to a 3-4 can he play OLB?

 

[AZ Native]

Okay well Bruce Smith was selected #1 overall, and I would take a Smith quality player over Suggs any day.

Tom Brady was selected #199 overall - maybe we should trade #1 overall for a bunch of 6th round picks so we can get another Tom Brady level player.

Do you see how terrible that logic is?

And what makes you say "Bosa is not a low risk"? Please tell me what specifically you think is going to cause him to bust.

No I don’t. We need many players not one questionable number 1 pick.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I agree....but if we switch to a 3-4 can he play OLB?

From Pro Football Weekly
Nick Bosa is a natural 4-3 defensive end, but with his athleticism, he can easily play as an outside linebacker in a base 3-4 scheme. Regardless, on pass downs, his hand is going to be in the dirt as a pass rusher.

Because his older brother is already a mature NFL player, Nick should “get it” and be ready and prepared to take on the rigors of the NFL. Once Nick gets to the NFL, he should endure fewer "growing pains" than an ordinary rookie.

 

[Solar7]

Suggs being the 10th pick has everything to do with it. We can trade back from #1 and still get a quality pick and add more. Bosa is not a low risk. We need many top players, not 1 possibility. I would take Suggs quality player over Bosa any day. And reap the rewards of trading down.

The point is that we passed on Suggs much earlier, and dropped back outside of the opportunity to get him and five other Pro Bowlers to take two guys who probably won't even make it into Cardinals themed bar trivia.

Right now we're staring at a guy who is the consensus #1 to anyone you ask, but people want to move back and get fancy, thinking for some reason that Keim is suddenly going to outsmart everyone in the first round.

 

[Shaggy]

Nick Bosa dominated at Ohio State.

His brother Joey was drafted at #3 overall and is one of the best pass rushers currently in the NFL.

His dad was a 1st round pick as a DE.

His uncle was a 1st round pick as a DE.

What makes you think that Nick won't be good or worthy of the #1 pick?

Injuries...

 

[Chopper0080]

Nick Bosa is good and he plays a premium position. There is not really a downside to drafting him. The other benefit is that you can approach FA knowing you are taking a edge pass rusher #1. That can lead to positional cost savings which is important.

 

[JeffGollin]

There are no hard and fast rules for drafting O-Linemen or, for that matter, any position.

It's a matter of evaluating each player on his own merits, determining whether the dude can help you and then hoping the percentages play out.

The Cardinals don't have a very good track record for building dominating or even acceptable offensive lines.

Most logical solution: Find position coaches with the track record for evaluating and developing great linemen and overpaying, if necessary, to get one of those dudes.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Nick Bosa is good and he plays a premium position. There is not really a downside to drafting him. The other benefit is that you can approach FA knowing you are taking a edge pass rusher #1. That can lead to positional cost savings which is important.

He will also be paired with Chandler Jones and we would immediately have one of the town pass rushing duos in the league.

 

[Lefty]

Trade with Oakland and get their first and second round pick and maybe a 3rd next year.

 

[cwamjn]

Trade with Oakland and get their first and second round pick and maybe a 3rd next year.

There is no chance of this happening. They didn't trade Mack to stockpile picks, just to turn around and trade them all back to draft Bosa.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Trade with Oakland and get their first and second round pick and maybe a 3rd next year.

Take Keim out of the decision and take the best player on the board in round 1. Then take the best players available at positions of need in every remaining round

 

[Rohinaz]

What makes you guys so sure Bosa is better than josh allen? Also, Devin white looks like the next Ray Lewis and we desperately need a field general in the middle. And Greedy Williams is a 6 fot 2 CB who can run with anybody. We have been messing around with projects at CB2 for years, why not lock down the role.

 

[football karma]

I think Nick Bosa is an excellent prospect, but I am unmoved by the "he is the consensus #1 pick and has been all season" argument.

I think his early ranking is helped by name recognition. It's also from rankings done by people who won't be actually making picks. It's hardly definitive, and, has a ton on inherent variability in it.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Take Keim out of the decision and take the best player on the board in round 1. Then take the best players available at positions of need in every remaining round

That is a recipe for disaster. That is how you draft Levi Brown over AD.

 

[Cardiac]

Take Keim out of the decision and take the best player on the board in round 1. Then take the best players available at positions of need in every remaining round

At this point I would say taking the BPA available in each round would also equal taking a "need". The only position I feel confident in is maybe safety.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That is a recipe for disaster. That is how you draft Levi Brown over AD.

I'm an advocate of Best Player available at a position of need....after the first 15 picks or so.

If you get a high pick, you absolutely have to take a guy that has the best chance to be a star.