The desperate desire to trade down is frustrating

[Kel Varnsen]

1. Medicine has come a long way since the 1980s.

2. That's not how probability works.

3. He is among the elite of the elite for bloodlines when it comes to NFL draft prospects. While his father & uncle may be busts, I would be more than happy to compare their achievements to that of the other available draftees.

Who were his dad and uncle?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Nick Bosa dominated at Ohio State.

His brother Joey was drafted at #3 overall and is one of the best pass rushers currently in the NFL.

His dad was a 1st round pick as a DE.

His uncle was a 1st round pick as a DE.

What makes you think that Nick won't be good or worthy of the #1 pick?

DNA doesn't guarantee your success.

There have been many defensive players taken at #1. There hasn't been a DPOY who was taken at #1 in over a generation. This century..... I think Mack was the only top 5 player as DPOY and Clowney was taken in front of him.

It's a crapshoot..... and the odds are heavily against him being that Donald, or JJ Watt or K. Mack or Von Miller type talent. p.s. None of them went #1 either.

edit: Charles Woodson was drafted #4 and won DPOY in 2009. 2 this century.

 

[DVontel]

Why wouldn't you want more swings at top-tier prospects instead of a hit-or-miss on a position that we don't really need?

I don't get that.

The Rams started to build their current team by trading down, didn't they?

Their best players, Todd Gurley & Aaron Donald were not from trade downs.

Outside of Brockers(who has been average), no one from that Rams-Skins trade is still on that roster.

 

[kerouac9]

Why wouldn't you want more swings at top-tier prospects instead of a hit-or-miss on a position that we don't really need?

I don't get that.

The Rams started to build their current team by trading down, didn't they?

They developed their current team (in part) by trading up for Jared Goff.

 

[crisper57]

They developed their current team (in part) by trading up for Jared Goff.

So you're saying we're already copying their model...

 

[Chopper0080]

Some of this depends on the defense. If I am running a 3-4, I am probably not as comfortable with Oliver. If I run a 4-3 defense, they are all in play from what I have seen so far.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Who were his dad and uncle?

From Wikipedia: Nick/Joey Bosa's father, John Bosa, played in the NFL from 1987 to 1989.

Nothing on his uncle, but there is a story on his great-grandfather:

Joey Bosa's great-grandfather was once Al Capone's bodyguard and a Chicago crime boss

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/4...-great-grandfather-mob-boss-chicago-al-capone

 

[Kel Varnsen]

From Wikipedia: Nick/Joey Bosa's father, John Bosa, played in the NFL from 1987 to 1989.

Nothing on his uncle, but there is a story on his great-grandfather:

Joey Bosa's great-grandfather was once Al Capone's bodyguard and a Chicago crime boss

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/4...-great-grandfather-mob-boss-chicago-al-capone

Thanks, BIM.

I used to work near a Bosa Donuts that never had any customers, but stayed in business somehow. We joked that it was a mob front. Maybe we were on to something. [emoji23]

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Thanks, BIM.

I used to work near a Bosa Donuts that never had any customers, but stayed in business somehow. We joked that it was a mob front. Maybe we were on to something. [emoji23]

Hmmm. Cards originated from Chicago...have managed to stay in business despite many years of low "customer" turnout... Are the Cards a mob front, too?

 

[football karma]

"the best player from a draft is rarely the no 1 rated / no 1 drafted player"

and

"the best players in a draft tend to be drafted in the top half of the first round"


are both true statements


who will be the better edge player? Nick Bosa, or, Josh Allen, or Clellin Farrel? Rankings say Bosa clearly. History says its a toss up.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Hmmm. Cards originated from Chicago...have managed to stay in business despite many years of low "customer" turnout... Are the Cards a mob front, too?

Suddenly, everything makes sense! [emoji13]

 

[Zeno]

Hmmm. Cards originated from Chicago...have managed to stay in business despite many years of low "customer" turnout... Are the Cards a mob front, too?

Well Stormy Bidwill did have ties to organized crime in Chicago, specifically Al Capone. You can't run horse races in Chicago in the 20's & 30's without some "help"

 

[wa52lz]

From Wikipedia: Nick/Joey Bosa's father, John Bosa, played in the NFL from 1987 to 1989.

Nothing on his uncle, but there is a story on his great-grandfather:

Joey Bosa's great-grandfather was once Al Capone's bodyguard and a Chicago crime boss

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/4...-great-grandfather-mob-boss-chicago-al-capone

Uncle was Eric Kumerow.....

"despite being a first round draft pick (16th overall), his brief NFL career has been widely criticized as a disappointment. He retired after only three seasons without ever starting an NFL game, and registering only five quarterback sacks. "

Most exciting part of his bio.......

'He is the grandson of Chicago Outfit mob boss Tony Accardo"

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

 

[DVontel]

Suggs was 15 years ago. It is a similar situation, though. Mac was a desperate head coach heading into a season the hot seat and wanted to improve the overall talent level on the roster instead of adding a single star. We would have drafted Jonathan Sullivan, tho, so it doesn't matter much.

I think we have enough star power on this team to compete – unlike in 2002. We just don't have the meat on the roster that allows those guys to shine. I don't think that Keim would trade back from 1 to 10 without reaping a king's ransom in return, but if you can move back 3-4 spots and pick up a #2 and #1 in return, I don't see why you wouldn't make that deal.

I’d only be cool with a trade down if it’s only with Oakland & they’re deadset on picking Bosa. Need to prevent Bosa from going to SF under any means necessary.

 

[scandalous_b]

He easily could be. I watch tape on him, and I am really not impressed.

I think if his last name was not Bosa, he would not be the consensus Number 1.

There's no way you could have actually watched him and came away unimpressed. What games did you watch?

Here is a PFF piece on him before the start of his Junior season: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-nick-bosa-is-the-best-defensive-lineman-in-the-country

I watched every single snap that Nick Bosa played in his college career. I never thought that he had any chance of being as dominant a player as Joey Bosa during his time at OSU. Before his freshman season, I probably would have agreed that he was overhyped because of his last name.

While I still think that Joey was a slightly better player because of how good he was against the run, I wouldn't have a problem with someone thinking Nick was an overall better player. Nick was definitely the more dominant pass rusher and jumped off the screen in a more obvious way.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I’d only be cool with a trade down if it’s only with Oakland & they’re deadset on picking Bosa. Need to prevent Bosa from going to SF under any means necessary.

Just take Bosa. He is the consensus top pick. Too much uncertainty in the organization to screw around and take risks

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

There's no way you could have actually watched him and came away unimpressed. What games did you watch?

Here is a PFF piece on him before the start of his Junior season: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/college-nick-bosa-is-the-best-defensive-lineman-in-the-country

I watched every single snap that Nick Bosa played in his college career. I never thought that he had any chance of being as dominant a player as Joey Bosa during his time at OSU. Before his freshman season, I probably would have agreed that he was overhyped because of his last name.

While I still think that Joey was a slightly better player because of how good he was against the run, I wouldn't have a problem with someone thinking Nick was an overall better player. Nick was definitely the more dominant pass rusher and jumped off the screen in a more obvious way.

He is phenomenal. Perfected technique combined with natural instinct. The sitting out part concerned me but I have grown to understand it. Chandler Jones and Bosa will wipe the smirk off of Pete Carroll’s face

 

[scandalous_b]

"the best player from a draft is rarely the no 1 rated / no 1 drafted player"

and

"the best players in a draft tend to be drafted in the top half of the first round"


are both true statements


who will be the better edge player? Nick Bosa, or, Josh Allen, or Clellin Farrel? Rankings say Bosa clearly. History says its a toss up.

Those statements are incredibly misleading though. While you claim the best player of a draft is rarely the #1 rated/drafted player, I would guarantee that the hit rate is higher for the consensus #1 rated player than any other individual pick.

You're comparing the #1 rated player to the entire field of drafted players, which is a bad way of looking at it.

 

[scandalous_b]

He is phenomenal. Perfected technique combined with natural instinct. The sitting out part concerned me but I have grown to understand it. Chandler Jones and Bosa will wipe the smirk off of Pete Carroll’s face

He wasn't going to be healthy enough to play for the rest of the season regardless, so whats the difference?

Clearly the majority of players & coaches didn't have a problem with his decision...

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...-rose-bowl-practice-greet-players-and-coaches

If Ohio State had a problem with the way he went about things, or thought he quit on the team, there is no way that he would be welcome back to practice or games this season. Considering he's going to be on the sideline for the Rose Bowl, I don't think there is much to worry about.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

He wasn't going to be healthy enough to play for the rest of the season regardless, so whats the difference?

Clearly the majority of players & coaches didn't have a problem with his decision...

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...-rose-bowl-practice-greet-players-and-coaches

If Ohio State had a problem with the way he went about things, or thought he quit on the team, there is no way that he would be welcome back to practice or games this season. Considering he's going to be on the sideline for the Rose Bowl, I don't think there is much to worry about.

You are preaching to the converted. I agree completely. It was my only concern about him and I researched it and was educated. Don’t trade down!

 

[scandalous_b]

You are preaching to the converted. I agree completely. It was my only concern about him and I researched it and was educated. Don’t trade down!

I'm glad you've done your research. I just don't think people on here realize how good and advanced he is. I can't imagine the majority of Cardinals fans have ever actually seen him play and are just looking at his stats or whatever.

If this were a draft that had an elite QB that teams were dying to get a shot at, I would completely understand wanting to look at trading down. The reality is that Bosa is clearly the prize of this draft, and teams are not going to sacrifice what you would typically expect for the #1 overall pick since it won't be for a QB.

It's amazing to me that everyone on here whines about Keim's drafting, yet demands that he trades the pick so that he gets more opportunities to mangle the draft.

 

[football karma]

Those statements are incredibly misleading though. While you claim the best player of a draft is rarely the #1 rated/drafted player, I would guarantee that the hit rate is higher for the consensus #1 rated player than any other individual pick.

believe it or not, we aren't that far off in thinking

my assertion is that the success rate for pick #1 vs (lets say) pick #5 are pretty small, if different at all. To me, if you can get "paid" a 2nd round pick to give up a tiny % of success likelihood, then you do it.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I'm glad you've done your research. I just don't think people on here realize how good and advanced he is. I can't imagine the majority of Cardinals fans have ever actually seen him play and are just looking at his stats or whatever.

If this were a draft that had an elite QB that teams were dying to get a shot at, I would completely understand wanting to look at trading down. The reality is that Bosa is clearly the prize of this draft, and teams are not going to sacrifice what you would typically expect for the #1 overall pick since it won't be for a QB.

It's amazing to me that everyone on here whines about Keim's drafting, yet demands that he trades the pick so that he gets more opportunities to mangle the draft.

Please help me spread this common sense to the rest of the board. People blast Keim and then want him to “engineer” a deal. Just do the smart thing and draft the best player in the draft

 

[scandalous_b]

believe it or not, we aren't that far off in thinking

my assertion is that the success rate for pick #1 vs (lets say) pick #5 are pretty small, if different at all. To me, if you can get "paid" a 2nd round pick to give up a tiny % of success likelihood, then you do it.

In a vacuum, sure that might be true.

However, there's a reason why Bosa has been the consensus #1 pick for this entire season. The difference between him and who would be available at #5 overall is probably more significant than in past years because of the lack of top QB prospects.

 

[Snoopdog323]

This draft is weak at OL and WR too. No megaton, no Joe Thomas, ugh