The Fun has Begun

[imaCafan]

You are aware we lost dansby and who knows when Washington will see the field. We are going to need help in run support. As to your last paragraph knowing what we know now they both would have been 1st round picks and the league has changed.

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Imagine if we picked a QB who was compared to Brady! "You do realize he was a 6th. round pick"....a Brady clone would go number one overall now.....

 

[kerouac9]

I don't know... It seems to me like anyone calling this prospect "special" or a "risk" or an "impact" player are doing some serious revisionist history, because no one was saying his name before the Cards came on the clock at 27th overall. What changed except the fact that the Cards turned in his name? Nothing.

Keim and Arians deserve the benefit of the doubt on this. I'm not really in a position to praise this pick or condemn it--but if you're of a feeling that this was a terrible pick or a bad value, you should take the burden of explaining who you would've wanted instead.

Otherwise, I think people forget the kind of prospect Adrian Wilson was coming out of NCState. He was a 6'2", 213 lbs safety with 4.53 speed on that old, slow Indy turf.

 

[WildBB]

We play in the NFC West where it's all about what happens in the box. Bucannon will bolster our play in the box, will be a force on the other side of the line of scrimmage and has the speed and athleticism to cover.
You want to compare him to when Wilson and Chancellor were picked? Go for it... But you are entirely neglecting the reality of how much the game has changed since those two were drafted.


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True. He would have been picked by the 9ers two picks later anyway. If not by NE next. They reached for the DE.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Roy Williams in 2002
Kenny Vacaro - just last year
Laron Landry in 2007
Donte Whitner in 2006
Troy Polamalu in 2003

Unless I am mistaken but all of those guys were SS on their respective teams depth charts were they not?

Doh!


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[82CardsGrad]

I don't know... It seems to me like anyone calling this prospect "special" or a "risk" or an "impact" player are doing some serious revisionist history, because no one was saying his name before the Cards came on the clock at 27th overall. What changed except the fact that the Cards turned in his name? Nothing.

Keim and Arians deserve the benefit of the doubt on this. I'm not really in a position to praise this pick or condemn it--but if you're of a feeling that this was a terrible pick or a bad value, you should take the burden of explaining who you would've wanted instead.

Otherwise, I think people forget the kind of prospect Adrian Wilson was coming out of NCState. He was a 6'2", 213 lbs safety with 4.53 speed on that old, slow Indy turf.

Nicely said...


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[Mulli]

Going all the way back to 1994, 20 years worth of first round picks, anybody care to guess how many SS were drafted in round 1?

You can stop looking after 2012 because there has been a grand total of 1 strong safety, Mark Barron, drafted in the first round since 1994 and probably longer if I'd kept going.

Even Dix, Pryor, and Ward are FS's in this draft class. Buchanon must be very special.

Did the Jags guy tell you that? Ha

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Roy Williams in 2002
Kenny Vacaro - just last year
Laron Landry in 2007
Donte Whitner in 2006
Troy Polamalu in 2003

Unless I am mistaken but all of those guys were SS on their respective teams depth charts were they not?

My bad, I did miss vacaro. The others did not come into the nfl as strong safeties. They were kind of like Pryor this year.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Did the Jags guy tell you that? Ha

Pro football reference.com did.

 

[Mulli]

Roy Williams in 2002
Kenny Vacaro - just last year
Laron Landry in 2007
Donte Whitner in 2006
Troy Polamalu in 2003

Unless I am mistaken but all of those guys were SS on their respective teams depth charts were they not?

Pro football reference this!

 

[BigRedRage]

Overall this guy’s success will, like Wilson’s, depend on how badly he wants it and how hard he works. He is teachable and has excellent character. He is a locker room and community asset. I have always believed that you don’t get so hung up on where a player should go in the draft that you fail to get a player you want. So if he’s the guy I want, I don’t care if may project him in the 40’s. It only takes one team that wants him to mess up waiting. I think Bucannon was as good a choice at 27 as was on the board.

.

Agreed and being a 3 time captain, gym rat and non stop study guy, I believe he will do it.

 

[BigRedRage]

Don't like the pick for many reasons. The guy is an in the box SS. Nobody uses safety's like that anymore. We need four guys that can cover and DB has stiff hips. I think Tony Jefferson would be just as good and he's already on the roster. There is just not any scenario where I see DB worthy of a first round pick.

Box safetys are very necessary in our run happy, scramble QB division. The number one run D in the league just got an upgrade at SS. Similar style to bell but better, faster, younger.

 

[chickenhead]

Robert Mays included Bucannon in his "rich-get-richer" moves:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-six-rich-get-richer-moves-of-the-nfl-drafts-first-round/

My hope is that the Cards decided to reach here because they felt they couldn't afford to lose out on Bucannon before their next pick, which means they were emphatic about landing him.

Keep in mind that their strategy may have been to trade down even lower in the first or into the second, but they just couldn't find the partner. So while they may have drafted him a little too high, they did get another third rounder out of it rather than really reaching at #20.

The Eagles' trade was better, but that doesn't mean it was there for the taking for the Cards. The Cards new 3rd is only eight spots after the Eagles, and that increment could of course end up being immaterial. I would feel a little better if both the Eagles' third round picks weren't ahead of the Cards' picks respectively, but hopefully they don't snag anyone we want...!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't know... It seems to me like anyone calling this prospect "special" or a "risk" or an "impact" player are doing some serious revisionist history, because no one was saying his name before the Cards came on the clock at 27th overall. What changed except the fact that the Cards turned in his name? Nothing.

Keim and Arians deserve the benefit of the doubt on this. I'm not really in a position to praise this pick or condemn it--but if you're of a feeling that this was a terrible pick or a bad value, you should take the burden of explaining who you would've wanted instead.

Otherwise, I think people forget the kind of prospect Adrian Wilson was coming out of NCState. He was a 6'2", 213 lbs safety with 4.53 speed on that old, slow Indy turf.

I would have taken Carr, Kouandjio, Tuitt, Hageman, or Jernigan then looked at safety later on.
This has always been considered a down year for safeties and we took the 3rd rated one in the first round.

I hope Buchanan plays to his draft level. I'm not rooting against the guy. I'm just not going to say he's a great pick only because the cardinals picked him.

 

[Mulli]

I would have taken Carr, Kouandjio, Tuitt, Hageman, or Jernigan then looked at safety later on.
This has always been considered a down year for safeties and we took the 3rd rated one in the first round.

I hope Buchanan plays to his draft level. I'm not rooting against the guy. I'm just not going to say he's a great pick only because the cardinals picked him.

So you would have picked all those 2nd round guys in the first? Are you Rod Graves?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

From what I've read, the Browns originally wanted Brandin Cooks @ 26. Once they saw the Saints leapfrog them to pick up Cooks, they competed with the Vikings to land Manziel.. forcing them to use their 3rd round pick. If this is true, our trade wasn't so bad after all. Eagles just got lucky.

This makes our trade make more sense

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So you would have picked all those 2nd round guys in the first? Are you Rod Graves?

Why not. Keim did and people love it.

 

[john h]

Well, my guys were mostly right. The Cards did trade down and that position board came into play. However, the Cards did botch the trade by not being aware that the itch factor would come into play with the QBs. Clearly a little better smoke screen on taking a QB or maybe even a phone call to a couple of teams would have given the Cards at least the Cleveland round 3 pick. That 8 pick difference in the 3rd round slot is significant, but the later you go in the draft, the less of a factor it becomes. The Cards wanted a deal badly and just blinked. Still, they did end up with an extra pick and an interesting player.

Deone Bucannon might have been available later, but I'm not sure he would have lasted until the Vikings' 40. For those of you who remember Adrian Wilson, well he's back. Okay don't get too excited. Bucannon may never make a Pro Bowl, safeties have become more athletic. Still this guy has value and was higher on my board than most, though not quite this high. Nonetheless I think in you will grow to like this pick.

Clinton-Dix had off the field issues, only some of which were publicized. Keep in mind I live in Orlando. I was also not certain Clinton-Dix was tough enough to be a strong safety. He may do fine, but there were some risks there I would not have taken either. Su'a-Filo and Ealy were the only other options at 27 and neither would start next year. Bucannon might well start by year’s end and will immediately help on special teams and special situations. A Vikings trade would have been interesting, but since the Cards would have needed a 2 and 3, not a 2 and 4 it’s complicated. Cards could have sent pick 120 to the Vikings, but the Cards wouldn’t have netted another player. I do not think Bucannon was a sure thing to last until 40 as he was well ranked on several boards. I had him as the second best safety.

That said, in many ways, like Wilson, he is more of an athlete than a great safety at this stage of his career. The Wilson comparison goes deeper. Bucannon should develop into a force when blitzing, though he must improve his tackling. He hits with tons of authority, but doesn’t always wrap up fully, so sometimes he just bounces a player he doesn’t bring down. He would often whiff on a player like Manziel, but so would many safeties. Still Bucannon is fast and loves contact. He will get his share of highlights. Oddly, his downside is similar to Wilson as well. He is very fast for a safety, but not strong in pass coverage. He is not the answer in taking away a good receiving tight end. He will look even worse covering backs and receivers, though not so much in zone. He lacks fluidity and is not smooth when backpedaling. Receivers will get separation. Bucannon hits hard enough to make receivers think when going over the middle. He has decent hands, like Wilson, and on poorly thrown or tipped balls, he is capable of making a play. He will get his share of interceptions.

Bucannon will look best when playing in the box, though he will misdiagnose some plays.

Overall this guy’s success will, like Wilson’s, depend on how badly he wants it and how hard he works. He is teachable and has excellent character. He is a locker room and community asset. I have always believed that you don’t get so hung up on where a player should go in the draft that you fail to get a player you want. So if he’s the guy I want, I don’t care if may project him in the 40’s. It only takes one team that wants him to mess up waiting. I think Bucannon was as good a choice at 27 as was on the board.

What I like best about the pick is that Keim had the guts to make it. This guy could be special and Keim’s predecessor would not have taken this kind of risk. This is why GM’s make the big money and what makes the great ones great. Bucannon may not make it, but I like the play.

I do not know much about the guy we picked so hope he is worth where we picked him. We certainly needed a free safety. The big question in my mind is will we regret not taking Johnny Football? Three years from now I sure hope he is no Wilson or Tarkenton as we would look rather bad and our present QB will have moved on. I thought thee Cowboys would take him for sure. The guy was all everything in college so he must have some talent. I think I heard the commentators say there are more starting QBs in the NFL from the 2nd round than any other round.

 

[Mulli]

Why not. Keim did and people love it.

Seriously, how can you say you would have taken those guys at 27, when naking a big deal about taking The Canon at 27? Those guys all fell to the 2nd and Carr might drop to the 3rd.

And when will you retract your 1 SS in the first round thing?

Sorry to stalk you.

 

[joeshmo]

Box safetys are very necessary in our run happy, scramble QB division. The number one run D in the league just got an upgrade at SS. Similar style to bell but better, faster, younger.

Plus with the NFL using the short pass game as their new run game, in the box safeties are all over the place in todays NFL.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Seriously, how can you say you would have taken those guys at 27, when naking a big deal about taking The Canon at 27? Those guys all fell to the 2nd and Carr might drop to the 3rd.

And when will you retract your 1 SS in the first round thing?

Sorry to stalk you.

Easy, I think they're all better. I also think if the cards took any one of them, people would be gushing over that pick too.

There's a lot of teams picks I didn't like(including jax).

Stalking break. I'll be golfing the next 5 hours. Rest up to get after me when the cards take tom savage in round 2

 

[kerouac9]

I would have taken Carr, Kouandjio, Tuitt, Hageman, or Jernigan then looked at safety later on.
This has always been considered a down year for safeties and we took the 3rd rated one in the first round.

I hope Buchanan plays to his draft level. I'm not rooting against the guy. I'm just not going to say he's a great pick only because the cardinals picked him.

That's fair. Here's what my response is on those alternative prospects:

Carr -- Terrible prospect at a position that we don't need help with right away.
Kouandjio -- I know he's a personal favorite, but apparently the injury issues may not lead him to a second contract, and it doesn't make a ton of sense to invest more draft capital along the OL right now. 27th overall for a RT?
Tuitt -- I've heard that this guy has the same motor issues that Hageman does.
Hageman -- Motor issues, and I'm not sure that Bretson Buckner is qualified enough to handle an actual headcase in his meeting room.
Jernigan -- Terrible fit for our defensive system. Too small to play DE, to light to play NT. Great fit as a three-technique or as a Wade Phillips-type NT.

I think that the argument that said that this was a thing safety class (something I've been saying for months), and we wanted to get a guy who could step in immediately is the correct one.

I've said it for a while: there are a ton of guys after the top 8-12 who are all bunched together. I don't think it's clear that Buchanon is a significantly worse prospect than any of the guys you would have preferred.

I'd argue that the positional value of the defensive tackles in particular is much, much higher, but these big guys have tended to fall from where I think they're worth.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Easy, I think they're all better.

And Keim thinks your wrong... I'm going with Keim - nothing person though...

 

[82CardsGrad]

Plus with the NFL using the short pass game as their new run game, in the box safeties are all over the place in todays NFL.

Yep...

Bucannon led the Pac-12 in tackles last season! He had more than 400 for his career. His 15 INT's are more than Dix and Pryor COMBINED!
At the combine, he put up the fastest 40, the most bench reps @ 225 lbs., the highest vertical leap and the longest broad jump of all safeties!

Who knows how he'll ultimately translate and produce at the NFL level. But, just based on his measurables and his production in the Pac-12, this was a terrific pick!

 

[kerouac9]

Yep...

Bucannon led the Pac-12 in tackles last season! He had more than 400 for his career. His 15 INT's are more than Dix and Pryor COMBINED!
At the combine, he put up the fastest 40, the most bench reps @ 225 lbs., the highest vertical leap and the longest broad jump of all safeties!

Who knows how he'll ultimately translate and produce at the NFL level. But, just based on his measurables and his production in the Pac-12, this was a terrific pick!

Pat Tillman had a bunch of tackles, and that didn't make him a good player. It just meant that he had a terrible defense in front of him. Of course, one reason that Bucannon had more INTs than Dix and Pryor is that Bucannon was a senior and the other two were underclassmen.

 

[WildBB]

Yep...

Bucannon led the Pac-12 in tackles last season! He had more than 400 for his career. His 15 INT's are more than Dix and Pryor COMBINED!
At the combine, he put up the fastest 40, the most bench reps @ 225 lbs., the highest vertical leap and the longest broad jump of all safeties!

Who knows how he'll ultimately translate and produce at the NFL level. But, just based on his measurables and his production in the Pac-12, this was a terrific pick!

I think he was the plan all along with the trade down. I think we'll be pretty satisfied after today. Three more prospects who should compete for positions with significant upside fairly soon.