The Latest On Tanking

[Chopper0080]

I think you have to give a new regime at least two years before pulling the pin.

Maybe but this is about the perception of the Cardinals tanking this year. Not about the merits of a plan that involves losing in year 1 in service of potentially being better off in the future.

 

[PJ1]

And after the way our center handled Allen in PS game #1, the Broncos wished they didn't And they overpaid him as well. But thanks for NOT using the word fans.

So, Allen's value is now being judged by one play in preseason? And after that play the Broncos wished they didn't sign him? Oh ok.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I don't think this thread is on the level. I don't know why we'd be encouraged to join this debate again when the conversation in many, many threads have been about taking/intentionally non-competitive.

That said, I think the tanking discourse hints that the public believes the front office and coaching staff are smart. No one can look at the offseason moves we've made and believe that our main objective was to build a team that's competitive in 2023. So either you had stupid people trying to compete or smart people trying not to compete

I don't think anyone can look at the roster as it was at the BEGINNING of the offseason that could say we had a real chance of being competitive in 2023, no matter the moves that were made after the fact.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

We still have bad contracts on the roster like Conner and Ertz.

And Prater

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't think this thread is on the level. I don't know why we'd be encouraged to join this debate again when the conversation in many, many threads have been about taking/intentionally non-competitive.

That said, I think the tanking discourse hints that the public believes the front office and coaching staff are smart. No one can look at the offseason moves we've made and believe that our main objective was to build a team that's competitive in 2023. So either you had stupid people trying to compete or smart people trying not to compete.

Houston was looked at as a stupid franchise, so they were treated as unserious people, not active tankers.

Many here believe that Monti and Gannon are being dishonest when they say that "every move we make is driven by helping the Arizona Cardinals win." That's just not true.

We entered 2023 free agency with top 10 cap space and exited it worse than when we came in.

We drafted two players in our top three picks who were going to be injured through the offseason program.

None of these are moves highlighting a team that wants to compete.

Even people like @Krangodnzr were saying that maybe we'd bring in someone like Rock Ya Sin to help the secondary. Never happened.

When I saw zero Keim Time type signings, there was literally NO argument that this wasn't a tank job.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah I don't agree.

Stripping out everything - bad contracts, bad draft picks, bad attitudes and starting fresh is a necessary step in a rebuild. That's all I have seen them do.

I think your whole problem is you don't actually want a rebuild. You want instant gratification.

While this is true, teams don't generally let a good young CB, good young DL, and a likely HOF WR walk and bring in next to nothing to replace them, even if they are on a rebuild. A rebuild is not the same as tanking.

 

[PDXChris]

i think every year when a hot college QB is coming out, the teams near the bottom are all suspected of tanking.
remember "suck for Luck". "tank for Tua" etc.

Its a lazy dog bites man story that writers can crank out to make content

For your average, lets say, NY Jets fan that would never care about the Cardinals otherwise -- its something to click and feel better about your teams chances

You forgot "Crap for Cam".

 

[Krangodnzr]

And Prater

Meh it's only a 1.25 million cap hit to move on from him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I do laugh at the idea that being the worst team in the NFL is better for your culture than having DeAndre Hopkins on your roster.

Eh I think with his attitude this offseason, he had to go.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think anyone can look at the roster as it was at the BEGINNING of the offseason that could say we had a real chance of being competitive in 2023, no matter the moves that were made after the fact.

Depends on your definition of "competitive." It's extremely possible that seven or eight wins will be enough to make the playoffs in the NFC this year.

Based on the roster in March, moves could have been made to make this a team that could potentially win eight games. This front office chose not to make those moves.

 

[PDXChris]

It's like Deandre Hopkins. There is no long term benefit for cutting him this year that couldn't be gained by cutting him next year.

We didn't save money to spend elsewhere. (minor savings next year)

We didn't upgrade in talent.

We didn't receive any compensation to benefit the future.

However, we did it anyways. That is not a move made to win games. That is a move made to get rid of a player who wants to win every year when that is not your primary focus in 2023.

I think there is an advantage to removing him now if you want to create a new culture. Removing him from the team he doesn't want to be on removes a vocal and respected player who didn't want to be part of a rebuild, especially a player who doesn't have a long self life left.

 

[DVontel]

moves could have been made to make this a team that could potentially win eight games.

And float in purgatory for another year.

If we’re going to be bad, we need to be all the way bad. Not just “okay enough” to build false hope into next season.

 

[kerouac9]

And float in purgatory for another year.

If we’re going to be bad, we need to be all the way bad. Not just “okay enough” to build false hope into next season.

You can make a reasonable argument that having a healthy, motivated Kyler Murray on your roster keeps you out of purgatory.

Regardless, my point was to dispute DCR's assertion that nothing could have been done to prevent a meaningless six-win season, and I think that's patently false.

 

[PDXChris]

How does sitting on 26.8 mil in cap space and increasing the dead cap dollars by 31 mil help build a roster to compete and win games this year?

Nope, it doesn't at all. But rolling that over to next season will give us $75 million in cap space with 35 players under contract. We are slated to have about $55 million plus any roll over.

Could be more with a few in season trades.

Unless we unload Kyler, then all this cap space is just for that. Which means 2025 is the year.

 

[kerouac9]

Nope, it doesn't at all. But rolling that over to next season will give us $100 million in cap space with 35 players under contract. We are slate to have about $72 million plus any roll over.

Could be more with a few in season trades.

Unless we unload Kyler, then all this cap space is just for that. Which means 2025 is the year.

Where are you getting this number from? OTC says $55 million next year.

 

[PDXChris]

Where are you getting this number from? OTC says $55 million next year.

Shoot, just realized they are already projecting $20 some million in roll over already.

We'll be closer to $75 million. My reading comprehension is bad this week.

Arizona Cardinals 2024 Salary Cap

A real-time breakdown of the Arizona Cardinals 2024 salary cap, including salaries, bonuses, reserve lists, dead cap, cap space and more.

www.spotrac.com

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[kerouac9]

Shoot, just realized they are already projecting $20 some million in roll over already.

We'll be closer to $75 million. My reading comprehension is bad this week.

Arizona Cardinals 2024 Salary Cap

A real-time breakdown of the Arizona Cardinals 2024 salary cap, including salaries, bonuses, reserve lists, dead cap, cap space and more.

www.spotrac.com

You must be registered for see images attach

Remember though that that doesn't account for projected rookie pool and getting from 38 rostered players to 53.

We have enough cap space to move on from Kyler Murray, but probably not enough cap space to become a serious team in 2024 unless we have an annus miralibus draft class.

 

[PDXChris]

Remember though that that doesn't account for projected rookie pool and getting from 38 rostered players to 53.

We have enough cap space to move on from Kyler Murray, but probably not enough cap space to become a serious team in 2024 unless we have an annus miralibus draft class.

Agreed. My point was more that it's obvious they are looking to 2024 as the first building year. This year is 100% a tank/strip down year. While we won't be great in 24, we could be competitive, unless we do move on from Kyler. Moving on from Kyler slows this down by a year to recover from his dead money.

 

[PDXChris]

How Cardinals would it be for us to win 10 games with smoke and mirrors and the Texans make the playoffs and both our picks are late 1st rounders.

 

[kerouac9]

How Cardinals would it be for us to win 10 games with smoke and mirrors and the Texans make the playoffs and both our picks are late 1st rounders.

We'd be thrilled.

 

[Harry]

I know that many on this Board have said that Arizona is tanking, and usually add, so that we can get Caleb Williams. And many in the national media have jumped on board, even to the point of one ESPN guy saying that fans should not buy tickets because the team doesn't want to try to win.

Every year there is a team ranked at or near #32, but I don't remember them being accused of tanking (usually). So, I'm not sure why we are being singled out. Surely, it can't be that we released Colt McCoy. I understand that our season can be described as, "A Perfect Storm". We were bad last year, our starting QB is injured and we have a new coaching staff and front office.

I'm sure the team won't be good this year, and I think of Detroit, Cleveland and the Jets, who had many years of futility, but don't remember them being accused of tanking. Nor do I remember media guys telling fans to stay home. So what am I missing?

Hopefully, replies don't include, "Because we are".

No effort to bring in any impact free agents. White is serviceable, I’m not sure he’s special.
No effort to keep players who left.
Majority of draftees were more in developmental category or recovering injured players.
Very young coaching staff with limited experience. This doesn’t mean they might not work out.
Dumping Hopkins and taking the write off.
I’m not saying they are setting their sights on Williams exclusively. I think the trades were intended to create an impact class next year.
I think they are skeptical about Murray. If he surprises, they might stay with him, though that’s a long shot.
By posting their impact rookie class, they could actually trade forward again if Murray does perform. They could trade forward again if they don’t have two 3 picks, which would dramatically lessen the impact of dumping Murray. They might just trade one of the picks forward.

I think you could explain away some of these but not their collective occurrence.

 

[Chopper0080]

Eh I think with his attitude this offseason, he had to go.

My comment wasn't about whether they should or shouldn't have let Hopkins go, it is just something that makes me laugh because saying it out loud sounds silly.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think there is an advantage to removing him now if you want to create a new culture. Removing him from the team he doesn't want to be on removes a vocal and respected player who didn't want to be part of a rebuild, especially a player who doesn't have a long self life left.

All of this may be true, but non of it is in service to winning in 2023. Also consider when the Cardinals were trying to win in 2022, Hopkins was not a culture problem.

 

[Chopper0080]

And float in purgatory for another year.

If we’re going to be bad, we need to be all the way bad. Not just “okay enough” to build false hope into next season.

And the point that I am trying to make in regards to the original post is that intentionally "being all the way bad" is tanking. That is why people are saying we are.

 

[Chopper0080]

Nope, it doesn't at all. But rolling that over to next season will give us $75 million in cap space with 35 players under contract. We are slated to have about $55 million plus any roll over.

Could be more with a few in season trades.

Unless we unload Kyler, then all this cap space is just for that. Which means 2025 is the year.

Again, this thread was created asking why people feel or say the Cardinals are tanking. Not whether the moves they made are good for the future of the franchise or not.