The little things that make Whiz a good coach

[Rats]

I would weight in and say that there is no long term with Warner. The Cards made a directional bet that Kurt will be able to stay on the field the next 2 seasons or at least this season. Winning forced there hand on this. Had they not won with Kurt, Matt would again get a shot even though he is no Kurt Warner under center and 2 years or 12 years will not improve that. Matt is going to be a good Qb in the league and if Kurt was not on his A game last season it would have made sense for the Cards to get Matt game play right now . He could be the future of the team at Qb. According to some Foxsports writer he and Young and Bush are all busts....so he has that going for him. So far he is doing what he is supposed to. Shut up and learn behind a great Qb. I for one hope Kurt plays all 32 regular season games the next 2 years and puts us in the Super Bowl. That will really make both him and Whis legends in the NFL and not just in the minds of some Cards fans( I think the former is closer than the latter) and Leinart will be an afterthought.

 

[Stout]

YEP!!! Was the throw alittle behind? Yes, but big time Wr's like Q should make that catch. When it hits your hands you should bring it in.

Exactly. The throw wasn't perfectly led, but it wasn't an awful throw by any stretch of the imagination. In looking down on Matty's performance last night, I think you're already convinced, Moklerman, that you don't like him, so you're looking for reasons to doubt him more than his play merits.

 

[PACardsFan]

Exactly. The throw wasn't perfectly led, but it wasn't an awful throw by any stretch of the imagination. In looking down on Matty's performance last night, I think you're already convinced, Moklerman, that you don't like him, so you're looking for reasons to doubt him more than his play merits.

I agree wholeheartedly. I was there last night & thought Leinart threw the ball very well. Leinart will only become the great QB we want him to be when he becomes the full-time starter. St. Pierre's passes floated & had no zip, but the same cannot be said of Leinart's passes. Boy, I was sooooo unimpressed with BSP. I really, really hope that he isn't as bad as he looked last night.

 

[slanidrac16]

See Joe Montana.

I could care less about Leinart's zip, as long as he makes throws like he did on a couple of those out routes that he completed. They are perfect throws, right over the LB's, outside of the DB, and with enough room for the WR to make the catch and stay in bounds.

He threw some really nice passes.

I agree completely, RM. I realy don't know how anybody can knock his performance. There were 2 or 3 of his throws that were absolutely perfect.

 

[moklerman]

Exactly. The throw wasn't perfectly led, but it wasn't an awful throw by any stretch of the imagination. In looking down on Matty's performance last night, I think you're already convinced, Moklerman, that you don't like him, so you're looking for reasons to doubt him more than his play merits.

Jaworski and Gruden both thought it was a bad throw to Boldin. No pressure, perfect pocket, Boldin wide open and the ball is thrown to where he can only get the fingertips of one hand on the ball.

Look at Sanchez if you want to see how a potential franchise QB should come in and make a big play.

The reason, which people seem to not be getting, that I'm "looking down" on Leinart's performance is because it isn't any kind of progression from last year. He has already exhibited the ability to throw the ball well against 2nd teamers and vanilla packages. Against 1st teamers, he still looks shaky.

His overall stat's look good but I don't think they are particularly relevant in this conversation. Whis put him in the game in a very specific situation and he blew the big play which was right there for the taking. I don't think he could care less about completing some passes in the preseason situations later on in the game. The mid-drive substitution was a litmus test resembling a "real" situation and Leinart wasn't ready.

Like I said, he looks like he's a very solid backup but not ready to be a starter. To me, that's a major disappointment. At this stage, being healthy, I expected him to look ready to step into the starter's role and he's still not proving to have much mental fortitude.

Who knows? Maybe he will be like Brees and just take time to develop but this is probably it for him as a Cardinal. I think he needs to really show that he's ready this offseason or the Card's will let him go before his contract balloons next offseason. If he just looks servicable I don't know that they're going to pay him $15M for it.

 

[Perfectionist]

After watching the game, I am feeling much more comfortable with our QB situation. I thought Matt looked good tonight. I did not expect him to look like he has been all world. I did see a Matt who over all looked more poised and a lot more confortable than in the past. Now Saint is another matter.

 

[SeattleCard]

Coach Whiz is the man. Sign him to a lifetime contract.

 

[Stout]

Jaworski and Gruden both thought it was a bad throw to Boldin. No pressure, perfect pocket, Boldin wide open and the ball is thrown to where he can only get the fingertips of one hand on the ball.

Look at Sanchez if you want to see how a potential franchise QB should come in and make a big play.

The reason, which people seem to not be getting, that I'm "looking down" on Leinart's performance is because it isn't any kind of progression from last year. He has already exhibited the ability to throw the ball well against 2nd teamers and vanilla packages. Against 1st teamers, he still looks shaky.

His overall stat's look good but I don't think they are particularly relevant in this conversation. Whis put him in the game in a very specific situation and he blew the big play which was right there for the taking. I don't think he could care less about completing some passes in the preseason situations later on in the game. The mid-drive substitution was a litmus test resembling a "real" situation and Leinart wasn't ready.

Like I said, he looks like he's a very solid backup but not ready to be a starter. To me, that's a major disappointment. At this stage, being healthy, I expected him to look ready to step into the starter's role and he's still not proving to have much mental fortitude.

Who knows? Maybe he will be like Brees and just take time to develop but this is probably it for him as a Cardinal. I think he needs to really show that he's ready this offseason or the Card's will let him go before his contract balloons next offseason. If he just looks servicable I don't know that they're going to pay him $15M for it.

You're basing this all on, what, two bad passes? One of which only you seem to think was uncatchable? Talk about overreaction in the extremis! You clearly don't like the kid as a player and draw the conclusion that he won't succeed with us. Okay, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I, and others, think you're daft for drawing that conclusion after this preseason game, especially considering a lot of folks disagree about the most 'disappointing' play you think he had.

 

[moklerman]

You're basing this all on, what, two bad passes? One of which only you seem to think was uncatchable? Talk about overreaction in the extremis! You clearly don't like the kid as a player and draw the conclusion that he won't succeed with us. Okay, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I, and others, think you're daft for drawing that conclusion after this preseason game, especially considering a lot of folks disagree about the most 'disappointing' play you think he had.

No, I thought I described very clearly how the throw barely hit one of Boldin's fingertips. A miraculous, circus catch was certainly within the realm of possibility but it was a bad throw.

In this particular case, I happen to respect both Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski and both were emphatic about Leinart making a bad throw. I also thought it was a bad throw.

But I don't base my opinion on that throw alone and am more concerned with the situation in which that bad throw occurred, especially compared to how the rest of the game went and how last preseason went.

Leinart continues to struggle against first string talent. Once the starters are taken out, he starts completing passes. I think that's a red flag and was hoping for an improvement this year.

Even Urban's blog mentioned that Whis was disappointed in that play to Boldin. I don't know his thoughts on the subject but it was a rare instance of real game situation and Leinart didn't come through. Completing some passes against the backups wasn't a bad thing and it was surely better than not completing those passes but when you're looking for progression and improvement over last year it doesn't illustrate much.

I think Leinart has all the physical tools he needs but being an NFL QB comes down to the mental side of things. Processing and learning information and handling pressure are all important aspects of a QB and they can't really be measured in practice.

That's why the Raiders game was so important last year. It wasn't so much that he had a bad half of football it was because there was pressure specifically on him and he crashed. Same thing vs. the Steelers. It was a mental test that he failed to respond to.

He rebounded and settled down to look a little more ready but by then, that test was over. It's possible that I'm placing too much importance on these things but I happen to believe they are good examples of rare instances by which a QB can be evaluated.

I'm not limiting this type of evaluation to Leinart. I think BSP failed in much the same way. He had a chance to really show what he could do and played some of his worst football. The spotlight was on him and he had something to lose and he didn't have "it".

I obviously don't have the knowledge or ability to determine Leinart's future in this way, or at all really but these are red flags in my personal evaluation process.

 

[Stout]

No, I thought I described very clearly how the throw barely hit one of Boldin's fingertips. A miraculous, circus catch was certainly within the realm of possibility but it was a bad throw.

In this particular case, I happen to respect both Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski and both were emphatic about Leinart making a bad throw. I also thought it was a bad throw.

But I don't base my opinion on that throw alone and am more concerned with the situation in which that bad throw occurred, especially compared to how the rest of the game went and how last preseason went.

Leinart continues to struggle against first string talent. Once the starters are taken out, he starts completing passes. I think that's a red flag and was hoping for an improvement this year.

Even Urban's blog mentioned that Whis was disappointed in that play to Boldin. I don't know his thoughts on the subject but it was a rare instance of real game situation and Leinart didn't come through. Completing some passes against the backups wasn't a bad thing and it was surely better than not completing those passes but when you're looking for progression and improvement over last year it doesn't illustrate much.

I think Leinart has all the physical tools he needs but being an NFL QB comes down to the mental side of things. Processing and learning information and handling pressure are all important aspects of a QB and they can't really be measured in practice.

That's why the Raiders game was so important last year. It wasn't so much that he had a bad half of football it was because there was pressure specifically on him and he crashed. Same thing vs. the Steelers. It was a mental test that he failed to respond to.

He rebounded and settled down to look a little more ready but by then, that test was over. It's possible that I'm placing too much importance on these things but I happen to believe they are good examples of rare instances by which a QB can be evaluated.

I'm not limiting this type of evaluation to Leinart. I think BSP failed in much the same way. He had a chance to really show what he could do and played some of his worst football. The spotlight was on him and he had something to lose and he didn't have "it".

I obviously don't have the knowledge or ability to determine Leinart's future in this way, or at all really but these are red flags in my personal evaluation process.

It's not possible you're placing too much importance on these things, it's certain. Boldin couldn't 'barely get his fingertips of one hand' to the ball. Myself and several others watching the game agreed that he tried to one-hand it and that if he had actually twisted his torso he could have had both hands on the ball and caught it. Everyone else I've talked to has agreed that the throw was off but quite catchable. The fact that you're so doggone adamant about this one throw says quite a lot. You keep harping about the first two throws as if it was some final test. Name me any QB who is going to come in without any kind of prep and immediately light it up, or even be completely accurate? I don't care how good you are, it will take you a few plays to acclimate yourself to the game. Yeah, if you get proper warning you can avert that, but Leinart specifically didn't. You are making a ridiculous mountain out of a molehill. I'm not completely sold on Leinart on the future, but the kid had an excellent game.

 

[Catfish]

(" Linehart just looked like a good back-up")----mocklerman

That's just what he is at this point---a back-up QB to Warner, and he is learning each time he plays, and getting better all the time, just like he is supposed to be doing.

 

[moklerman]

Everyone else I've talked to has agreed that the throw was off but quite catchable.

Well, I watched it, re-watched it and then checked the Tivo and don't agree. Darren Urban, Coach Whis, Jon Gruden and Ron Jaworski all thought it was a bad pass too.
[/quote]

I'll disagree with every one of them too. Boldin makes that catch 9 times out of 10. The ball was behind him, but he didnt even have to completely extend his arms to try to catch the ball. The ball was on his hip, behind him. Was it a bad pass, not to me. Bad passes are uncatchable, not in the receiver's vacinity or intercepted. This one wasn't any of these. It wasn't hitting Boldin in stride, but it wasn't uncatchable either.

 

[Catfish]

Leinart looked just like he looked last year in preseason. He made some good, safe throws against vanilla schemes. But I "knew" he was going to look better this year. That's why I'm disappointed. He didn't.

He didn't look worse but he didn't look like he'd taken any significant step forward.
I disagree. Brad Johnson is just a backup QB. Leinart is supposed to be ready to go. He's got a year's worth of starts under his belt and had over a calendar year to get ready for this preseason game. Blowing the money ball, completing less than 60% of his passes for less than 6 yards per attempt doesn't instill in me the impression that he's going to get better.

He deserves a lot of credit for shaking off that dirty hit he took but overall, he was just a B- grade in my eyes. That doesn't mean I think he's done but I would really like to see much better from him in the next three games. There's no reason he shouldn't be firing on all cylinders at this stage in preseason games.[/quote]

I'm not knocking your observations --- just cautioning that your expectations might just be a little high at this point in Matt's career. As I recall he only had 6 starts in his career---(all under Denny). He had the one bad pre-season start against Oakland. Whiz was correct to move KW ahead of him. I don't think the two QB solution worked well, and I don't think that Whiz did either, so I dismiss that as (STARTING) for Matt. Since that time Matt has been a back-up --- but he is a good backup, and I believe, (when he gets the chance to show it), he will prove to be a good starter. Right now, there is doubtfully any coach in the leage who would consider Matt to be a seasoned starter. I do think that nearly all of them believe him to be a good back-up at this point.

 

[moklerman]

I'm not knocking your observations --- just cautioning that your expectations might just be a little high at this point in Matt's career. As I recall he only had 6 starts in his career---(all under Denny). He had the one bad pre-season start against Oakland. Whiz was correct to move KW ahead of him. I don't think the two QB solution worked well, and I don't think that Whiz did either, so I dismiss that as (STARTING) for Matt. Since that time Matt has been a back-up --- but he is a good backup, and I believe, (when he gets the chance to show it), he will prove to be a good starter. Right now, there is doubtfully any coach in the leage who would consider Matt to be a seasoned starter. I do think that nearly all of them believe him to be a good back-up at this point.

I certainly realize anything's possible and I'm not giving up on Leinart but the disappointment is certainly there.

I'd also argue that my expectations aren't unrealistic. Going by what he's done in previous preseason games he didn't even live up to most of what he's done in the past. Granted, he didn't have another Oakland game(take your pick) but I really believe that a guy with the amount of experience that he has should be able to come into any preseason game and be VERY efficient.

I don't think he should or will be able to be up to full speed if he has to come into a regular season game but the first preseason game he should for sure.

As I recall he only had 6 starts in his career---(all under Denny).

He had 11 starts his rookie year under Green(the 11th he got hurt about half way through) and 5 starts in '07 under Whis. 2 full starts and 3 QB Carousel starts(and then got hurt). I think a season's worth of attempts in his career is a pretty accurate description. So, he's got at least 1 year's worth of experience and I'd argue much more considering how guys like Palmer, Rodgers, Rivers, etc. have come in after "learning" on the bench. Nothing's as valuable as playing time but waiting in the wings does have some value.

 

[Catfish]

I certainly realize anything's possible and I'm not giving up on Leinart but the disappointment is certainly there.

I'd also argue that my expectations aren't unrealistic. Going by what he's done in previous preseason games he didn't even live up to most of what he's done in the past. Granted, he didn't have another Oakland game(take your pick) but I really believe that a guy with the amount of experience that he has should be able to come into any preseason game and be VERY efficient.

I don't think he should or will be able to be up to full speed if he has to come into a regular season game but the first preseason game he should for sure.
He had 11 starts his rookie year under Green(the 11th he got hurt about half way through) and 5 starts in '07 under Whis. 2 full starts and 3 QB Carousel starts(and then got hurt). I think a season's worth of attempts in his career is a pretty accurate description. So, he's got at least 1 year's worth of experience and I'd argue much more considering how guys like Palmer, Rodgers, Rivers, etc. have come in after "learning" on the bench. Nothing's as valuable as playing time but waiting in the wings does have some value.

I agree with this --- just saying that I don't believe that his performance was disappointing--- after all, It WAS THE SB CHAMPS we were playing, and his unit soundly outperformed theirs.

 

[Stout]

Moklerman, now you're just making things up to support your point. Mark Sanchez knew EXACTLY when he was coming into the game, prepped for it, warmed up, and came in to make a heck of a pass. Whis SPECIFICALLY waited until the middle of a drive and threw Matt into the fire WITHOUT him preparing for it. Yes, it was to test how he would do if pressed into duty at the drop of a dime. Sanchez wasn't pressed into duty at the drop of a dime; he was eased into the game at the beginning of a drive. Your Leinart hatred is crystal clear to me now. You don't seem to want him to succeed, and you're hell-bent on making people know how goldurn disappointing his first preseason game was. Well, I happened to think he did a bang-up job when he got into the rhythm of the game. And I don't much care that you're naysaying him, as your perfectly uninformed opinion means zilch to his success or future in the NFL.

 

[moklerman]

Moklerman, now you're just making things up to support your point. Mark Sanchez knew EXACTLY when he was coming into the game,

Probably, but what I said was he was deep in his own territory (own 7 yard line to be precise) and given a play that surprised him. It wasn't a scripted play that he had been preparing for throughout the preseason. He was quoted during the game on the sideline saying "Schotty really surprised me with that first play. Shootin' "3's" cold off the bench".

Whis SPECIFICALLY waited until the middle of a drive and threw Matt into the fire WITHOUT him preparing for it.

Well, duh! He threw him a curve ball to see how he'd handle it and he struck out. But don't act like Leinart was unprepared or had no idea that he would be playing. He knew he was going to get 20-30 plays that night and prepped for them for 2 weeks.

Freakin' Sanchez had never taken a snap in the NFL! How does that not trump coming in 1/2 a series early when you've been in the league for 3+ years? Leinart was familiar with the system, coaches, plays & players and has a fair amount of starting experience. There's no excuse for him to not be ready and make that throw.

You asked for an example of a QB coming in cold and making a tough throw, claiming it could not be done. I think Sanchez disproves that claim.

Your Leinart hatred is crystal clear to me now.

Oh please. Is this Cardinals Degrassi now? If you feel that settling for a 70+ rated QB is what's expected for Leinart, more power to you but don't act like I hate him because he's not performing at a level that I think he should be capable of. If I said he wasn't capable of good things you might have a point. I'm pissed because I do think he's capable and he isn't stepping it up.

and you're hell-bent on making people know how goldurn disappointing his first preseason game was.

Posting my thoughts about it in one thread, that I didn't even start is hell-bent?

Well, I happened to think he did a bang-up job when he got into the rhythm of the game.

I guess that isn't enough for you. Why are you so bent out of shape about what I think is an important part of his evaluation if you value the rhythm of the game as a measuring stick?

I understand how you feel. I was quite pleased that Leinart settled down and completed some passes but that doesn't erase the earlier failure and IMO, the timing and situations where he was completing passes generally only serves as an indicator if a QB starts misfiring or throwing interceptions.

And I don't much care that you're naysaying him, as your perfectly uninformed opinion means zilch to his success or future in the NFL.

You weren't under the impression that I was making claims that coach Whis was going to be reviewing what I had to say and that it would impact Leinart's future, were you?

I can see why you wouldn't be fond of my opinions but as biased as I am about them I think they hold merit. I am neither a USC hater or lover and the guy I thought should, and said would win in a straight up competition already did so. I am thinking of what's best for the Cardinals if Warner goes down and I'm thinking of the potential I think Leinart has and needs to show for the team to have confidence in him. I'm sorry you interpret that as hatred because it simply isn't.

 

[fball13]

Moklerman,
Great analysis... in 2 throws, you've completely evaluated two NFL caliber quarterbacks.
Sanchez, start posing for the bust, Canton awaits...
Matty, by trailing Q on one throw, pull up a chair next to Ryan Leaf.

Who needs the pre-season to evaluate players?... just have them run one play each, then Moklerman can determine their potential...

In fact, if Warner ever misses his first throw of a game, let's bench him since he had so much time to prepare. Then if BSP misses his first throw, let's bench him... Then if Palko misses his first throw, let's bench him... Of course, then we're screwed since we would've cut Matty week 1 of the pre-season because of his errant throw...

I thought Matt looked calm, had great pocket presence and threw the ball well overall... I just hope he looks as good in the next 3 weeks as he did last week.

 

[Stout]

Moklerman,
Great analysis... in 2 throws, you've completely evaluated two NFL caliber quarterbacks.
Sanchez, start posing for the bust, Canton awaits...
Matty, by trailing Q on one throw, pull up a chair next to Ryan Leaf.

Who needs the pre-season to evaluate players?... just have them run one play each, then Moklerman can determine their potential...

In fact, if Warner ever misses his first throw of a game, let's bench him since he had so much time to prepare. Then if BSP misses his first throw, let's bench him... Then if Palko misses his first throw, let's bench him... Of course, then we're screwed since we would've cut Matty week 1 of the pre-season because of his errant throw...

I thought Matt looked calm, had great pocket presence and threw the ball well overall... I just hope he looks as good in the next 3 weeks as he did last week.

Exactly. Again, you get even worse, Moklerman. Okay, Sanchez didn't expect that play call. HE STILL WARMED UP. Leinart wasn't expecting to be in the game until at least the next series and WASN'T WARMED UP. Sanchez=warm but had a surprising play call, and Leinart=COLD. What part don't you understand? It's like talking to a brick wall!

 

[MrYeahBut]

Maybe I should start a Fitz cult to counteract some of the Warner cult energy.

Fitz never warms up, doesn't even stretch

Fitz never expects a pass thrown to him, yet he catches them all with one hand

Fitz wears no pads at all yet relishes going over the middle to pancake linebackers

Fitz is never surprised by the play calling( see next entry)

Fitz took over the play calling mid season for our incompetent O/C

Fitz taught Whiz how to breakdown film

Fitz tells the caterer what to serve in the cafeteria(whole grain bread, organic vegetables, no red meat, etc)

I could go on, but I would like some other cult devotees to add their insights into the god known to us all as Fitz

Edit to add...It was Fitz who really called the flea flicker, he just let it leak out it was BSP because of his unconditional love for the 'great unwashed'

 

[moklerman]

Moklerman,
Great analysis...

Thanks a lot. It's a lot easier to just stop reading after one see's what they want to see. Isn't it?

Sanchez didn't expect that play call. HE STILL WARMED UP. Leinart wasn't expecting to be in the game until at least the next series and WASN'T WARMED UP.

So your argument is that Leinart went completely cold in what, 15 minutes? Didn't he KNOW that he was going to play that night?

Sanchez=warm but had a surprising play call, and Leinart=COLD. What part don't you understand?

I understand the situation perfectly but I certainly don't agree with your inaccurate description.

You seem to be equating Leinart going in unexpectedly in a preseason game to the same situation in the regular season. It doesn't. Leinart prepared for and knew he was going to play vs. Pittsburgh. It just happened 1 series sooner than he expected. I don't know if he got a couple of warm-up tosses on the sideline but I know he had to have thrown the ball a lot in pregame warmup's.

Coming off a t.v. timeout and coaches challenge Leinart had his helmet on, standing next to Whis and ran to the huddle right when the referee said it was still Cardinals ball. It never shows when Leinart was told that he was gong in so I don't even know for sure if he got any warm-up's or not.

Maybe I should start a Fitz cult to counteract some of the Warner cult energy.

Yeah, I was such an idiot for pulling for the guy that has now started 31 straight games, gone to the pro bowl and led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Yeah, I was such an idiot for pulling for the guy that has now started 31 straight games, gone to the pro bowl and led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.

Didn't call you an idiot or name you personally at all. Are you just paranoid? Or when you look in the mirror it upsets you?

I have very little problem with Warner, only some of the manical support he sometimes receives from some of his supporters. I say so without naming any individual, you sir, included.

I have admitted my manlove for Fitz without going overboard about it. I don't take up reams of cyberspace proclaiming it either, or quote every stat imaginable to prove he is the greatest wide receiver 'of all time' < using Mohammed Ali voice.

 

[joeshmo]

It never shows when Leinart was told that he was gong in so I don't even know for sure if he got any warm-up's or not.

You must not have heard Wiz press confrences, intervies, or read any of his quotes then. Because Wiz said he planned from the beginning before the game even started he was going to throw Matt into the game mid series, without any warning and without getting warmed up. You may not have known then but you do know.

I dont even know what you guys are debating, just giving some info you may not have known.

 

[joeshmo]

His overall stat's look good but I don't think they are particularly relevant in this conversation. Whis put him in the game in a very specific situation and he blew the big play which was right there for the taking. I don't think he could care less about completing some passes in the preseason situations later on in the game.

Again, you really havent read a single thing Wiz has said since the game. You are very much so putting word in Wiz mouth, in fact you are contradicting them. Wiz post game has said many things about how he really liked the drives he put together. 1 or two throws was hardly the only litmus test for Wiz or he wouldnt have mentioned the rest of Matts Stats.

 

[moklerman]

Didn't call you an idiot or name you personally at all. Are you just paranoid? Or when you look in the mirror it upsets you?

Not at all but I think your inference was clear. This thread had nothing to do with Warner and any time I post something that someone doesn't like, a "cult of Warner" type of message appears as some kind of rebuttal.

I have very little problem with Warner, only some of the manical support he sometimes receives from some of his supporters. I say so without naming any individual, you sir, included.

Was there maniacal support being displayed by someone?

I have admitted my manlove for Fitz without going overboard about it. I don't take up reams of cyberspace proclaiming it either, or quote every stat imaginable to prove he is the greatest wide receiver 'of all time' < using Mohammed Ali voice.

I'm having a hard time imagining a dignified and masculine way of proclaiming one's man-love for an athlete. I'm certainly guilty of doing it as well but I don't think there is any kind of scale of acceptance.

My stat research is sometimes excessive but rarely irrelevant. It's sometimes even informative. My scope is fairly limited but what I know I think I know pretty well.