The little things that make Whiz a good coach

[moklerman]

Again, you really havent read a single thing Wiz has said since the game. You are very much so putting word in Wiz mouth, in fact you are contradicting them. Wiz post game has said many things about how he really liked the drives he put together. 1 or two throws was hardly the only litmus test for Wiz or he wouldnt have mentioned the rest of Matts Stats.

per Urban's blog:

-- When coach Ken Whisenhunt was talking about missed opportunities against Pittsburgh, one play he was specifically talking about was Matt Leinart’s miss to Anquan Boldin on Leinart’s very first play. Sitting up in the press box, you could see Q coming open and I remember thinking Leinart needed to throw it earlier and lead Q. That said, it’s possible Boldin could have reached back with two hands (he tried to make a one-handed grab), which would have slowed his momentum but would have provided a completion. Still, Leinart knows it wasn’t a great throw and he needs to make that.

Where did I talk about Whis' thoughts on the rest of the game? I gave my thoughts on the rest of the game but not Whis'.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Was there maniacal support being displayed by someone?

Omg, only years of it.

Again not naming any individual.

 

[joeshmo]

per Urban's blog:
Where did I talk about Whis' thoughts on the rest of the game? I gave my thoughts on the rest of the game but not Whis'.

Thanks for quote something about 1 single play, doesnt answer anything I brought up???? We are talking about the rest of the throws you said Wiz doesnt care about, your exact quote "I don't think he could care less about completing some passes in the preseason situations later on in the game." That is exactly telling us about his thoughts for the rest of the game. Unless you talk in the third person now and "he" actually means yourself. I was only asking you why you felt you could put words in Wiz mouth, words that clearly contradict his post game thoughts, which your quote learly does.

Did you already forget what you wrote, you know the actual quote I put in my post you responded to.

You said it, move on, no need to get into your full on defense mode.

 

[moklerman]

What has that got to do with this thread though? Why drudge it up? What about the discussion at hand, about Leinart, made you think there was Warner cult energy?

The only people talking about Warner are the one's taking pot-shots at me for not fawning over Leinart's every pass.

 

[moklerman]

Thanks for quote something about 1 single play, doesnt answer anything I brought up???? We are talking about the rest of the throws you said Wiz doesnt care about, your exact quote "I don't think he could care less about completing some passes in the preseason situations later on in the game." I was only asking you why you felt you could put words in Wiz mouth, words that clearly contradict his post game thoughts.

Did you already forget what you wrote, you know the actual quote I put in my post you responded to.

You said it, move on, no need to get into your full on defense mode.

You're actually scolding me about putting words in someone's mouth when that's all that you've done? Please tell me where I was putting words in Whis' mouth? Seriously.

"I don't think he could care less...".

"He couldn't care less".

See the difference?

 

[8ndkorner]

per Urban's blog:
Where did I talk about Whis' thoughts on the rest of the game? I gave my thoughts on the rest of the game but not Whis'.

Hang in there brother. Many on this board thought ML should have been given the start last season just based on Warner's age. We all know now that Wiz made the correct choice. Now the big debate is how ML did not suck as much playing against 2nd teamers. How Boldin should have reached back for a missed pass. Maybe, but at some point, at any point will it ever fall on ML's shoulders? I think not.

 

[moklerman]

Hang in there brother. Many on this board thought ML should have been given the start last season just based on Warner's age. We all know now that Wiz made the correct choice. Now the big debate is how ML did not suck as much playing against 2nd teamers. How Boldin should have reached back for a missed pass. Maybe, but at some point, at any point will it ever fall on ML's shoulders? I think not.

The truly hysterical part of this thread is that I hope that my instincts and reaction to that play are totally off base.

I thought Leinart gutted out a dirty hit, made some solid throws, looked confident and could have used a little help from...Pope or Byrd on that 4th down pass that was incomplete.

Unfortunately, just like last year's Oakland game, I think these situations can't be evaluated on overall stat's. It wasn't the fact that he had a bad half, it's the fact that he had a bad half because his job was on the line and the pressure got to him. It wasn't the fact that he threw a bad pass to Boldin in Pittsburgh it was the fact that he threw a bad pass because he wasn't able to mentally come through in that situation. Butterflies, nerves, thought he was ready but he wasn't, I don't know what he was actually thinking but it was one of those moments and it didn't go well.

Maybe there will be another opportunity for him to step up and prove himself but I really don't see how vs. San Diego. No matter what he does vs. the third stringers isn't going to show much.

Think about it this way. If Leinart comes in, completes that pass and the Cards go on to score and then just replicates what he did on his 2nd drive, I'm willing to bet his job is without question. That one play was a chance to definitively separate himself from BSP. I think we all see that he's better than BSP anyway but at this stage, Whis is still making excuses for BSP and giving him the 2nd string job vs. San Diego.

 

[Mitch]

The truly hysterical part of this thread is that I hope that my instincts and reaction to that play are totally off base.

I thought Leinart gutted out a dirty hit, made some solid throws, looked confident and could have used a little help from...Pope or Byrd on that 4th down pass that was incomplete.

Unfortunately, just like last year's Oakland game, I think these situations can't be evaluated on overall stat's. It wasn't the fact that he had a bad half, it's the fact that he had a bad half because his job was on the line and the pressure got to him. It wasn't the fact that he threw a bad pass to Boldin in Pittsburgh it was the fact that he threw a bad pass because he wasn't able to mentally come through in that situation. Butterflies, nerves, thought he was ready but he wasn't, I don't know what he was actually thinking but it was one of those moments and it didn't go well.

Maybe there will be another opportunity for him to step up and prove himself but I really don't see how vs. San Diego. No matter what he does vs. the third stringers isn't going to show much.

Think about it this way. If Leinart comes in, completes that pass and the Cards go on to score and then just replicates what he did on his 2nd drive, I'm willing to bet his job is without question. That one play was a chance to definitively separate himself from BSP. I think we all see that he's better than BSP anyway but at this stage, Whis is still making excuses for BSP and giving him the 2nd string job vs. San Diego.

You are making too much sense, Mokler! Stop it!

You will be vindicated...hang in there.

 

[MrYeahBut]

What has that got to do with this thread though? Why drudge it up? What about the discussion at hand, about Leinart, made you think there was Warner cult energy?

The only people talking about Warner are the one's taking pot-shots at me for not fawning over Leinart's every pass.

I admit I was skeptical, but Warner made a believer out of me last year. However, I have been a supporter of Leinarts from the beginning. It just appears to me that you don't lay into Warner for every mistake he makes, but a federal case is made when Leinart throws 1 supposedly bad pass in preseason.

I am comfortable with Kurt at the helm this year, because he is the best we have right now. I just don't particularly like what I deem as unfair criticism of Leinart.

Holy mackerel man, Warner stunk it up badly with the Giants and he managed to resurrect himself from a Lazarus style tomb(pardon the biblical reference) much darker than the one Matty boy is in. Why can't he be afforded the same chance without railing on him for every small mistake?

BIM: Dredge

 

[Arizona's Finest]

You are making too much sense, Mokler! Stop it!

You will be vindicated...hang in there.

 

[Duckjake]

Maybe I should start a Fitz cult to counteract some of the Warner cult energy.

Fitz never warms up, doesn't even stretch

Fitz never expects a pass thrown to him, yet he catches them all with one hand

Fitz wears no pads at all yet relishes going over the middle to pancake linebackers

Fitz is never surprised by the play calling( see next entry)

Fitz took over the play calling mid season for our incompetent O/C

Fitz taught Whiz how to breakdown film

Fitz tells the caterer what to serve in the cafeteria(whole grain bread, organic vegetables, no red meat, etc)

I could go on, but I would like some other cult devotees to add their insights into the god known to us all as Fitz

Edit to add...It was Fitz who really called the flea flicker, he just let it leak out it was BSP because of his unconditional love for the 'great unwashed'

He is the most interesting man in the world. He doesn't drink but when he buys you one it's Dos Equis.

 

[Pariah]

Hang in there brother. Many on this board thought ML should have been given the start last season just based on Warner's age.

I'm happy to admit that I was wrong on a couple of counts. I was a Leinart guy (still am, I guess...at least when it comes to his future with the team).

My reservations about Warner didn't have much to do with his age, though. It had an awful lot to do with the way he turned the ball over at really inopportune times during most of his tenure as a Cardinal previous to last year.

It's a shame I feel like I have to say this, lest I get roasted: Warner was AMAZING last year.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm happy to admit that I was wrong on a couple of counts. I was a Leinart guy (still am, I guess...at least when it comes to his future with the team).

My reservations about Warner didn't have much to do with his age, though. It had an awful lot to do with the way he turned the ball over at really inopportune times during most of his tenure as a Cardinal previous to last year.

It's a shame I feel like I have to say this, lest I get roasted: Warner was AMAZING last year.

He speaks for me.

I agree 100%

 

[Crimson Warrior]

He speaks for me.

I agree 100%

Yeah, me too.

Does anyone know where Warner's 2008 season ranked for the Cardinal's franchise?

 

[Pariah]

Yeah, me too.

Does anyone know where Warner's 2008 season ranked for the Cardinal's franchise?

Jeez, it's got to be the best, doesn't it?

 

[conraddobler]

Yeah I bashed Warner or worried about him too, I was wrong, I admit it, Whiz rules and yes I believe it's by far the best, in terms of touchdowns I'm pretty sure it is, passer rating, yards etc, and for sure in the playoffs.

It's easily the best I ever remember, by a mile.

 

[moklerman]

It just appears to me that you don't lay into Warner for every mistake he makes, but a federal case is made when Leinart throws 1 supposedly bad pass in preseason.

Fair enough. I rarely pile on when Warner screws up but that isn't to say that I don't agree with those who are.

Warner has held the ball, taken the sack, thrown into triple coverage, made a bad read enough times in his career where it just can't be defended. Most of these things were to the detriment of the team...well, all of them would be but what I mean is, a preseason game is a bit different. My criticism of Leinart isn't because I'm trying to talk Warner up or that his poor throw hurt the team or hurt Boldin's chances of making the team.

I'm just evaluating Leinart. I don't think he's a bust and I do think he's going to be starting for the Cardinals at some point and I'm tired of him being a project. 1st rounders aren't supposed to be projects and I want the light to go on for him. It's these types of things that are the difference between good and great and it's aggravating for him to still be on the good side.

 

[Stout]

Fair enough. I rarely pile on when Warner screws up but that isn't to say that I don't agree with those who are.

Warner has held the ball, taken the sack, thrown into triple coverage, made a bad read enough times in his career where it just can't be defended. Most of these things were to the detriment of the team...well, all of them would be but what I mean is, a preseason game is a bit different. My criticism of Leinart isn't because I'm trying to talk Warner up or that his poor throw hurt the team or hurt Boldin's chances of making the team.

I'm just evaluating Leinart. I don't think he's a bust and I do think he's going to be starting for the Cardinals at some point and I'm tired of him being a project. 1st rounders aren't supposed to be projects and I want the light to go on for him. It's these types of things that are the difference between good and great and it's aggravating for him to still be on the good side.

There ya have it, then. Easy on Warner, hard on Leinart. As we knew aaaall along. Hey, give Kurt all the breaks in the world--he's earned it. Just let's not go soup nazi on Matty with the 'no good evaluation for you' for one lousy play that I don't think is as godawful as you. It's a tired song. He had a solid game. You disagree, but I think he had a solid game. Your overanalysis has become boring and I feel no further need to argue against it because I don't feel you've made a valid point about it. I'm sure you'll naysay him anyway next week even if he has a good game, because it will be against the scrubs. So, I'm done arguing it with you. Unless we re-name him Matt Warner, you'll continue to overcriticize him.

 

[moklerman]

There ya have it, then. Easy on Warner, hard on Leinart. As we knew aaaall along. Hey, give Kurt all the breaks in the world--he's earned it. Just let's not go soup nazi on Matty with the 'no good evaluation for you' for one lousy play that I don't think is as godawful as you. It's a tired song. He had a solid game. You disagree, but I think he had a solid game. Your overanalysis has become boring and I feel no further need to argue against it because I don't feel you've made a valid point about it. I'm sure you'll naysay him anyway next week even if he has a good game, because it will be against the scrubs. So, I'm done arguing it with you. Unless we re-name him Matt Warner, you'll continue to overcriticize him.

Would you like some more pee in your cheerios?

By the way, I already said that what Leinart does vs. the Chargers won't mean much(unless he really screws up).

Hey, give Kurt all the breaks in the world--he's earned it.

That's not what I said at all. I said I don't generally pile on when he's earned criticism. There are plenty of people who are ready and willing to do that. I did call for him to be benched in '06 when he continued to fumble though. Can't be much more critical than that.

He had a solid game. You disagree,

He missed the big play, got bailed out on a bad call that should have been a pick and still only posted a 74 rating. What was so "solid" about it? I don't think it was a bad game but the whole point of this is that he didn't really show any improvement over last year.

because I don't feel you've made a valid point about it.

So, you think it was a good pass to Boldin? Keep in mind, Leinart didn't even think it was a good pass. Or you think it wasn't a missed opportunity? Whis and Leinart both thought it was.

 

[joeshmo]

You're actually scolding me about putting words in someone's mouth when that's all that you've done? Please tell me where I was putting words in Whis' mouth? Seriously.

"I don't think he could care less...".

"He couldn't care less".

See the difference?

Typical defense mechanism from you, of which you do often, try and turn it around on the other person. Havent put words in anyones mouth, I am using direct quotes.

And there is no difference, Either way its you thinking he could care less, when he clearly does and has said he does. So either its putting words in his mouth or you just dont listen to him and his comments about the rest of the game meaning your "thinking of what you think he thinks" is completely wrong, which is clearly is or Wiz wouldnt have brought up the other drives no would he.

 

[joeshmo]

Would you like some more pee in your cheerios?

By the way, I already said that what Leinart does vs. the Chargers won't mean much(unless he really screws up).
That's not what I said at all. I said I don't generally pile on when he's earned criticism. There are plenty of people who are ready and willing to do that. I did call for him to be benched in '06 when he continued to fumble though. Can't be much more critical than that.
He missed the big play, got bailed out on a bad call that should have been a pick and still only posted a 74 rating. What was so "solid" about it? I don't think it was a bad game but the whole point of this is that he didn't really show any improvement over last year.
So, you think it was a good pass to Boldin? Keep in mind, Leinart didn't even think it was a good pass. Or you think it wasn't a missed opportunity? Whis and Leinart both thought it was.

Not sure why people are debating you about the throw to Boldin, it was a horrible throw no if ands or buts about it.

As for the pass interference call the guy was not open but it was a throw that any other QB would make and is asked to make in the situation. 13 seconds left on the 50 with no timeouts the QB always makes that throw regardless of coverage, with only 13 seonds left and no timeouts you chuck it up and hope the WR makes a play, you get a generous call from the ref, or it gets intercepted and it plays like a punt. Warner would have made the same throw to the same great coverage and has, why, because its the throw the QB is asked to throw.

As for the first throw you see it as being the only one that matters because he has pressure on his shoulders and didnt handle it. I see it the opposite way. I see it as he failed in the most pressurized situation he had that night and he didnt let it bother him, he didnt let it get in his head, he didnt let the pressure build and actually fought through it to complete 5 passes in a row. Its like the Pitcher that allows a home run in the first inning only to not allow any runs after that versus the one that allows the home run and lets it get in his head and gives up 5 more runs. He didnt let the added pressure build, he moved on. Also the play worked out now didnt it. So if we can use "What If's", then I will add a "what if", What if Pope didnt have alligator hands in the red zone?

And this isnt a bash on Warner, but can you really use Matts rating as part of your arguement considering Warner's rating was lower then Matts?

 

[MrYeahBut]

He is the most interesting man in the world. He doesn't drink but when he buys you one it's Dos Equis.

Sweet

 

[Perfectionist]

Yeah, me too.

Does anyone know where Warner's 2008 season ranked for the Cardinal's franchise?

Jeez, it's got to be the best, doesn't it?

Could not find offical season (sorted) rating for our quarter backs but Kurt did set these records last year.

LINK
Single-season records

Points Scored: 427 (2008)

Passing

• Passing Yards: 4,583 Kurt Warner (2008)
• Passing Touchdowns: 30 Kurt Warner (2008)
• Passes Completed: 401 Kurt Warner (2008)
• Passes Attempted: 598 Kurt Warner (2008)
• Longest Completed Pass Thrown: 98 Yards Doug Russell (1932) / Ogden Compton (1957) / Jim Hart (1972)
• Consecutive Games With a Touchdown Pass : 22 Kurt Warner (2007-2008)

So obviously, it has to be the best season ever.

Also here is a site you can spend hours on, if you have never seen it.

http://arizonacardinalscards.com/

The stat section is really good.

 

[conraddobler]

I'd be interested to see who sticks around after Warner is gone and then how interested in the team they'll be.

I just don't feel this kind of feeling about any other player, I don't see being down on Matt so hard, he's on our team, he's not living up to expectations but he's not a complete bust either.

It's a odd situation to have Warner here but it's been good for the team, as long as Warner is the better QB he'll be our QB, don't know why people even focus on Matt that much now.

 

[Pariah]

1st rounders aren't supposed to be projects and I want the light to go on for him.

I think the only reason people might think he's a "project" is because he hasn't beaten out Warner...but how do you expect a young QB to do that when Warner--by EVERYONE'S account--is playing at a HoF level. He's playing historically well. That's the only reason Leinart isn't starting right now--because he's playing behind a better QB than all but 3 or 4 others in the NFL.

I can't put fault leinart for that.