The Market 2021

[BigRedRage]

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[Zeno]

It's very like all about the UAW when it comes to Tesla.

I've been tempted to put some $$ in to Ford but I've been hesitant. I don't own any car manufacturer stocks outright (including Tesla--which I kick myself for not jumping on board years ago)--of course some appear in my ETFs but maybe it's time to invest.

 

[Devilmaycare]

It's very like all about the UAW when it comes to Tesla.

I've been tempted to put some $$ in to Ford but I've been hesitant. I don't own any car manufacturer stocks outright (including Tesla--which I kick myself for not jumping on board years ago)--of course some appear in my ETFs but maybe it's time to invest.

I've seen a couple things now claiming that Pete admitted it was because Tesla isn't union. I haven't found a video though that shows him saying it so I'm treating it probable but not gospel.

What really annoys me with it is that the big 3 while union are also manufacturing outside the US. Just a couple months back GM announced that they were investing a billion dollars in Mexico for EV production and made the UAW mad. Meanwhile Tesla and Lucid are being made in the states. Lucid gets even higher marks since it's made in AZ. I'll take their non-union jobs over no jobs at all.

GM to invest $1 billion in Mexico for electric vehicle production, angering UAW members

The facility will begin producing at least one EV beginning in 2023, GM said. The company declined to discuss what vehicle or vehicles will be produced there.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Folster]

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There's a simple explanation. Somebody at the Whitehouse transposed TSLA as STLA.

 

[BigRedRage]

It's very like all about the UAW when it comes to Tesla.

I've been tempted to put some $$ in to Ford but I've been hesitant. I don't own any car manufacturer stocks outright (including Tesla--which I kick myself for not jumping on board years ago)--of course some appear in my ETFs but maybe it's time to invest.

It's 100% on uaw. They were there and have unions at the 3 auto makers there and Biden went on and on about unions.

I think TSLA will absolutely explode over the next 24 months. It's not too late. Check out @garyblack00 on Twitter. Lots of talks of another stock split probably soon.

 

[BigRedRage]

I've seen a couple things now claiming that Pete admitted it was because Tesla isn't union. I haven't found a video though that shows him saying it so I'm treating it probable but not gospel.

What really annoys me with it is that the big 3 while union are also manufacturing outside the US. Just a couple months back GM announced that they were investing a billion dollars in Mexico for EV production and made the UAW mad. Meanwhile Tesla and Lucid are being made in the states. Lucid gets even higher marks since it's made in AZ. I'll take their non-union jobs over no jobs at all.

GM to invest $1 billion in Mexico for electric vehicle production, angering UAW members

The facility will begin producing at least one EV beginning in 2023, GM said. The company declined to discuss what vehicle or vehicles will be produced there.

www.cnbc.com

Tesla is the most American made car on market but it is dismissed for not having a union. It's a joke. Could it be that a company already treats employees well enough that a union isn't needed?

 

[Yuma]

I've seen a couple things now claiming that Pete admitted it was because Tesla isn't union. I haven't found a video though that shows him saying it so I'm treating it probable but not gospel.

What really annoys me with it is that the big 3 while union are also manufacturing outside the US. Just a couple months back GM announced that they were investing a billion dollars in Mexico for EV production and made the UAW mad. Meanwhile Tesla and Lucid are being made in the states. Lucid gets even higher marks since it's made in AZ. I'll take their non-union jobs over no jobs at all.

GM to invest $1 billion in Mexico for electric vehicle production, angering UAW members

The facility will begin producing at least one EV beginning in 2023, GM said. The company declined to discuss what vehicle or vehicles will be produced there.

www.cnbc.com

Tesla does have a couple plants outside the US and is building a Mega plant in Germany!

 

[BigRedRage]

Tesla does have a couple plants outside the US and is building a Mega plant in Germany!

Shanghai, Austin and Berlin. Berlin will serve Europe, Shanghai Asia, Austin the US. Fremont might not stick around. All of Tesla has come from Fremont however Fremont is one of the lowest volume auto manufacturing facilities in the US. Simply a startup venture.

Also eyeing India however India not playing very nice.

The key difference is the US driven Tesla's are made in the US and the most American cars in the US. The overseas factories are for the overseas customers.

 

[Yuma]

Shanghai, Austin and Berlin. Berlin will serve Europe, Shanghai Asia, Austin the US. Fremont might not stick around. All of Tesla has come from Fremont however Fremont is one of the lowest volume auto manufacturing facilities in the US. Simply a startup venture.

Also eyeing India however India not playing very nice.

The key difference is the US driven Tesla's are made in the US and the most American cars in the US. The overseas factories are for the overseas customers.

Reno NV, my old stomping grounds has a Tesla battery plant. Early on I was betting the battery plant would end up being more productive than the Fremont car plant just because they can do car batteries, house batteries, etc. I don't know if there is a way to play that bet by itself.

 

[BigRedRage]

Reno NV, my old stomping grounds has a Tesla battery plant. Early on I was betting the battery plant would end up being more productive than the Fremont car plant just because they can do car batteries, house batteries, etc. I don't know if there is a way to play that bet by itself.

Like, as a stock? Tesla is Tesla. Cars, batteries, solar, HVAC and everything else coming.

 

[DWKB]

Tesla is the most American made car on market but it is dismissed for not having a union. It's a joke. Could it be that a company already treats employees well enough that a union isn't needed?

Uh….

Tesla has a lower median salary that the UAW companies and Musk and another Tesla exec we nailed in CA for illegally tampering with unionization.

 

[BigRedRage]

Uh….

Tesla has a lower median salary that the UAW companies and Musk and another Tesla exec we nailed in CA for illegally tampering with unionization.

I don't believe annual salary alone is how to determine if employees need to unionize.

The only articles I see are from years ago but I see Tesla being slight lower than some and much higher than some. I know Tesla employees also get stock.

But we both know salary is not the whole picture of "do employees need to unionize"

Tesla's median employee pay vs. the median American in 2018 is surprising

A recent proxy statement from Tesla has revealed that in 2018, a median employee of the electric car maker made $56,163, including salary or wages, performance bonuses, and stock awards. This figure is true for full-time, part-time, and temporary employees, excluding Elon Musk. According to data...

www.teslarati.com

I didn't see anything newer. Outdated Info is outdated.

 

[Yuma]

I don't believe annual salary alone is how to determine if employees need to unionize.

The only articles I see are from years ago but I see Tesla being slight lower than some and much higher than some. I know Tesla employees also get stock.

But we both know salary is not the whole picture of "do employees need to unionize"

Tesla's median employee pay vs. the median American in 2018 is surprising

A recent proxy statement from Tesla has revealed that in 2018, a median employee of the electric car maker made $56,163, including salary or wages, performance bonuses, and stock awards. This figure is true for full-time, part-time, and temporary employees, excluding Elon Musk. According to data...

www.teslarati.com

I didn't see anything newer. Outdated Info is outdated.

I know the data in these are not always indicative of the true story. I worked at a company and the average salary was not near what we made. We didn't know if they counted benefits in that, Plus having a union can be about benefits, safety equipment, working without being paid, etc. I know the battery plant workers in Reno didn't seem to have any complaints.

 

[Devilmaycare]

It's fully anecdotal and a super small sample size but I know someone who used to work at the Tesla plant in CA. He was more on the grunt side of things and loved it there. Hasn't had bad things to say about Tesla or Elon.

I on the other hand worked for GM for about a year writing code for a now defunct product and didn't like the company. It felt like a bureaucratic mess. The people running it didn't know what they were doing, things moved at a snail's pace in something that needed to be high pace, etc. I wasn't union with it, the IT center in Chandler wasn't at all at the time plus I was a contractor, but we had to deal with a ton of stupid union rules. They had different safety stuff that probably makes sense for a factory floor but not for an office building of programmers. We were also forced to follow the union's vacation policy and time frames. That got really annoying because a couple time they tried to do mandatory days off during the week that we were supposed to do a product launch. The entire time was stuff like that.

 

[Finito]

Tesla is the most American made car on market but it is dismissed for not having a union. It's a joke. Could it be that a company already treats employees well enough that a union isn't needed?

I get your a fanboy but stop. You ever been in that Fremont plant? I have, they work them in 12 hours shifts and pay them nothing. They make like 20 bucks an hour and in Northern California the Bay Area your getting food stamps at that wage it’s flat out not even close to livable. Look up a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment and let me know what you can get making 20 bucks an hour. we got more work coming up in November there.

not to mention forcing workers to go back during covid.

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[BigRedRage]

I get your a fanboy but stop. You ever been in that Fremont plant? I have, they work them in 12 hours shifts and pay them nothing. They make like 20 bucks an hour and in Northern California the Bay Area your getting food stamps at that wage it’s flat out not even close to livable. Look up a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment and let me know what you can get making 20 bucks an hour. we got more work coming up in November there.

not to mention forcing workers to go back during covid.

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Working 12 hour shifts doesn't constitute as "poor employment". If you're working 60 hours a week and don't want to, sure. However, nurses work longer than 12 hours all the time. It doesn't mean they need to unionize.

You guys can pro union all you'd like however unions are few and far between and the government bowing to the UAW is silly.

You can call it fanboy, I call it a heavily invested bull. Not a gamble, not a yolo, a clear and obvious investment.

 

[Finito]

Working 12 hour shifts doesn't constitute as "poor employment". If you're working 60 hours a week and don't want to, sure. However, nurses work longer than 12 hours all the time. It doesn't mean they need to unionize.

You guys can pro union all you'd like however unions are few and far between and the government bowing to the UAW is silly.

You can call it fanboy, I call it a heavily invested bull. Not a gamble, not a yolo, a clear and obvious investment.

this isn’t about an investment or a gamble YOLO’ing

it’s about you saying Elon treats his employees so good they don’t need a union when you’ve never stepped foot in that Fremont plant or probably know anyone who works there.

nurses actually have a super strong union and get great pay and benefits, but people who work on the line at Tesla get neither. Like I said about 20 bucks an hour doing very hard production work, you ever do production? Like I said look up what a 1 bedroom will run you in the Bay Area. It’s not a livable wage and no benefits because they work juuuuust under full time

Telling people oh and go ahead and stay home due to the nationwide pandemic it’s ok, but telling the hire ups fire the ones staying home. That’s BS dude.

 

[BigRedRage]

this isn’t about an investment or a gamble YOLO’ing

it’s about you saying Elon treats his employees so good they don’t need a union when you’ve never stepped foot in that Fremont plant or probably know anyone who works there.

nurses actually have a super strong union and get great pay and benefits, but people who work on the line at Tesla get neither. Like I said about 20 bucks an hour doing very hard production work, you ever do production? Like I said look up what a 1 bedroom will run you in the Bay Area. It’s not a livable wage and no benefits because they work juuuuust under full time

Telling people oh and go ahead and stay home due to the nationwide pandemic it’s ok, but telling the hire ups fire the ones staying home. That’s BS dude.

I didn't make claims of their employment situation as there is very little data outside of 2018 salaries. I said it is possible that employees are treated well and don't need to unionize. Not every company needs a union. I didn't make hard solid claims in any shape about Tesla employment.

The Fremont factory is a money pit and will likely close a while after the gigafactories open. There is no reason to use such a small capacity plant in such a high cost of living city if you don't have to.

 

[Yuma]

I didn't make claims of their employment situation as there is very little data outside of 2018 salaries. I said it is possible that employees are treated well and don't need to unionize. Not every company needs a union. I didn't make hard solid claims in any shape about Tesla employment.

I think this is starting to develop into a circular argument. Time to move on!

 

[Finito]

Working 12 hour shifts doesn't constitute as "poor employment". If you're working 60 hours a week and don't want to, sure. However, nurses work longer than 12 hours all the time. It doesn't mean they need to unionize.

You guys can pro union all you'd like however unions are few and far between and the government bowing to the UAW is silly.

You can call it fanboy, I call it a heavily invested bull. Not a gamble, not a yolo, a clear and obvious investment.

I didn't make claims of their employment situation as there is very little data outside of 2018 salaries. I said it is possible that employees are treated well and don't need to unionize. Not every company needs a union. I didn't make hard solid claims in any shape about Tesla employment.

The Fremont factory is a money pit and will likely close a while after the gigafactories open. There is no reason to use such a small capacity plant in such a high cost of living city if you don't have to.

oh if I’m a tech company of any kind the last place I’m building is California there was a piece on the news about companies flooding Arizona from California. There’s supposed to be a huge expansion starting in November out at the Fremont plant

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[BigRedRage]

oh if I’m a tech company of any kind the last place I’m building is California there was a piece on the news about companies flooding Arizona from California. There’s supposed to be a huge expansion starting in November out at the Fremont plant

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An expansion would make sense if they are staying, otherwise it seems like a money hole.

 

[Finito]

An expansion would make sense if they are staying, otherwise it seems like a money hole.

just did a big expansion in 2020 aswell

 

[BigRedRage]

Anyone ever look at the stock history for lockheed martin? Something to remember whenever a war is brewing and you want some very long positions:

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[Russ Smith]

After a sharp drop yesterday after the fed mentioned tapering, pre market futures are well down again. But, they just announced the weekly jobless number, 324K, significantly better than expected, and the best pandemic era number yet. 4th straight week of decline in the number. Interesting to see if this great news will offset any of the concerns about tapering.

Tapering is basically the markets version of Afghanistan, everyone knew that whoever won POTUS was going to have to eventually have that happen you can't just keep propping up the market by expanding the balance sheet you have to eventually start to "taper" that and based on the Fed minutes yesterday they are closer to starting that than people expected.

 

[Russ Smith]

348 not 324, markets down but well off what the early futures were suggesting down so it appears the jobless numbers are having a positive impact.