The NFC Race for T Joe Thomas Begins

[Mitch]

As key NFC contender wannabes peer into the crystal ball, the looming figure that keeps emerging is the Browns' All-Pro LT Joe Thomas. If one man can make a difference for several NFC teams, Thomas appears to be that man.

Thomas has said that he wants to still be on the Browns when they finally are contenders, but he admits that it might not be realistic to assume he will. He has one year remaining on his contract, for which his cap figure is $8.8M. That would be a steal for any team...to land Thomas for the balance of this year and for next year for a paltry $8.8M per.

Packers

Last night we watched the Packers beat da Bears with 4 guards and a center. What a timely coup it would be for them to make a move for Joe Thomas. If the Packers would be willing to offer their 2018 1st round pick, the Browns might jump at the offer.

Seahawks

The Seahawks already managed to acquire DT Sheldon Richardson. Could they pull the Thomas ace out of their other sleeve? Losing LT George Fant to injury has forced them to switch G Oday Aboushi over to LT. Adding Thomas would be a major coup and a possible panacea for their offensive woes. With a small window left with such a superb but aging defense, the Seahawks might feel the urgency to shoot for the moon and do whatever it takes to land Thomas.

Giants

At 0-3, no NFC hopeful feels more desperate at this point than the Giants. Their LT Ereck Flowers remains a liability and is one of the reasons why the Giants' high-flying offense has been under-achieving. adding Thomas could push them well over the hump and give them a chance to get quickly back into the playoff hunt.

Cardinals

Anyone who watched the Cardinals offensive line get abused by the Cowboys' 3 man rush on MNF knows what adding an All-Pro tackle like Joe Thomas would mean to their playoff chances. Talk about small windows. Carson Palmer and Larry Fitzgerald are likely in their last seasons and it looks very clear that the Cardinals need some kind of a jump start and a morale boost. Adding Thomas could be the best answer possible. However, if GM Steve Keim's ultra-conservative, frugal off-season moves are an indication of where he thinks the Cardinals are heading, Keim will likely prefer to pin his hopes on the return of D.J. Humphries with a belief that struggling RT Jared Veldheer can rediscover his mojo.

The NFC is largely up for grabs. While the Falcons, Lions and Packers look to be clear front runners at this point, each of those teams has its warts.

In the NFC West, the most significant off-season addition within the division already appears to be T Andrew Whitworth of the Rams.

The NFC team that lands Joe Thomas (if the deal can be made) may be the one to punch their tickets for Minnesota.

 

[kerouac9]

Cards should trade for Thomas and move him to the right side to make room for Humphries.

 

[JeffGollin]

By now, it should be pretty obvious that building our OL based on hope is like trying to draw from an inside straight. Time to take the bull by the proverbial horns.

 

[Buckybird]

Is the answer to the Cards problems "just" hypothetically acquiring JT? Hmmmm

Even if they did get Thomas I'm not sure he could improve the line play enough though it would help.

1) I still say Iupati triceps injury that's gone on for 2 years now is a big issue

2) despite the rankings of Shipleys solid play, he's not all that & the position needs to be upgraded

3) Boone is an upgrade over Iupati at this point because he's a good pass protector.

4) is Boehm a C or a guard? I'd luv to see him play the position he's was drafted to play. It just seems the Cards coaches move guys around & fail doing it.

5) Veldheer-he's mentally & physically done regardless of what many say

 

[overseascardfan]

ARZ can't trade 1st rounder, they need it for their QBOF. What ARZ should do is move Veldheer back to LT while DJ is out to see if his play improves. Chances are he retires after this year so maybe deal for Thomas in offseason. Only teams that would be interested in trading for him would be SB contenders who can afford to give up first rounder at deadline. ARZ could legitimately be picking in Top 5 the way the season has gone so far.

 

[GatorAZ]

Then trade for Adrian Peterson plus bring Revis and Willis out of retirement. That would officially close the book on Levi pick.

 

[kerouac9]

ARZ can't trade 1st rounder, they need it for their QBOF. What ARZ should do is move Veldheer back to LT while DJ is out to see if his play improves. Chances are he retires after this year so maybe deal for Thomas in offseason. Only teams that would be interested in trading for him would be SB contenders who can afford to give up first rounder at deadline. ARZ could legitimately be picking in Top 5 the way the season has gone so far.

I think D.J. Humphries is supposed to come back this week.

 

[Son of RedRage]

ARZ can't trade 1st rounder, they need it for their QBOF

I could see the Browns being dumb enough to send Joe Thomas to us for a 2nd rounder.

 

[Red Bird]

Still pisses me off that he didn't fall to us in 07. There's never been a prospect I wanted more than Joe Thomas. I remember throwing my water bottle across the room when he went at #3.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Still pisses me off that he didn't fall to us in 07. There's never been a prospect I wanted for than Joe Thomas. I remember throwing my water bottle across the room when he went at #3.

Waste of a water bottle - if we had #3 and traded it for Jarvis Moss and Ben Grubbs - then it would have been worth it.

 

[Harry]

I'm not certain Cleveland would trade its best protection for its hoped QBOTF. Also I think they would feel they owed it to Thomas to send him somewhere he wants to go. Of Mitch's 3 options, the Cards would seem to be the worst place to go. The QB situation is unsure after this season. The same could be said of the WRs & TEs. Even with him the playoffs aren't a sure thing.

Let's assume Thomas had no choice. As amazing as it sounds, I'm not certain the Cards would want him. They think Humphries can play LT, but probably not RT. Thomas certainly would not go right when he's at this point in his career. So they'd be stuck with a LT with no trade value and still be short a RT. Plus Thomas can leave after 2018. Finally I sure someone will suggest including Humphries in the trade. The Cards would still have to part with a second and that would mean another hole unfilled.

This is a happy thought, but I don't see his happening.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I could see the Browns being dumb enough to send Joe Thomas to us for a 2nd rounder.

I could see us being dumb enough to say no way! It has to be a First!

 

[Mitch]

I'm not certain Cleveland would trade its best protection for its hoped QBOTF. Also I think they would feel they owed it to Thomas to send him somewhere he wants to go. Of Mitch's 3 options, the Cards would seem to be the worst place to go. The QB situation is unsure after this season. The same could be said of the WRs & TEs. Even with him the playoffs aren't a sure thing.

Let's assume Thomas had no choice. As amazing as it sounds, I'm not certain the Cards would want him. They think Humphries can play LT, but probably not RT. Thomas certainly would not go right when he's at this point in his career. So they'd be stuck with a LT with no trade value and still be short a RT. Plus Thomas can leave after 2018. Finally I sure someone will suggest including Humphries in the trade. The Cards would still have to part with a second and that would mean another hole unfilled.

This is a happy thought, but I don't see his happening.

I agree, Harry. As I said, trading for Thomas would not be in line with Keim's off-season approach this year. If Keim was truly "all in" on this year, we'd know it by now.

My hunch is that Keim already knows this is BA’s last year, which explains for his deferring of the QBOF decision, because Keim wants to match the new QBs with the new HC.

It would also explain why Keim has been so conservative this year in his free agent signings. 2018 is looking more and more like a clean slate for whomever is taking over as HC.

I would speculate that there is much more of a disconnect between Keim and BA than anyone realizes. They put up a united front to the media, but behind closed doors there are some fundamental differences about personnel philosophies and how to develop players within the system. I would bet pretty much anything that Keim is not happy with BA’s croneyism when it comes to his coaches (Amos Jones, especially) and to some of his roster favorites.

My biggest fear has been that MB and SK would feel compelled to promote within the current staff someone like Goodwin or Bettcher to HC. There are too many things going wrong with the coaching to take that leap of faith. But, BA can be intimidating and very demanding. He says he’s a delegator, but he more of a control freak. And nothing would please BA more than to ride off into the sunset with his "coaching tree” in place. Who could blame him? BA would have wanted to be the next man up as HC in Pittsburgh, so he wants more than anything for Goodwin or Bettcher to get the treatment he never got in Pittsburgh.

However, in light of Steve Keim’s current dispostion, it encourages me to think that he and MB are going to want a clean break from the current staff and start afresh with a HC they feel can take the Cardinals to the next level.

BA and his staff helped bring the Cardinals back into contention, and for that, BA and the coaches deserve the raises they got…but BA's brand of coaching and style of play have gone stale, exceedingly predictable and very much outdated.

While Keim has made some mistakes personnel-wise (which he readily admits to), would anyone feel comfortable drafting for BA? BA leans on over the hill veterans and distrusts younger players. One reason why the Cardinals do not have a young QB is BA’s insufferable loyalty to Drew Stantton, for example.

The player development as a whole from BA’s staff over 5 years has been negligible. Look at the offensive and defensive lines. They keep getting worse. When so many players fail and/or regress from one year to the next–it then speaks more to the coaching than the GM.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

ARZ can't trade 1st rounder, they need it for their QBOF. What ARZ should do is move Veldheer back to LT while DJ is out to see if his play improves. Chances are he retires after this year so maybe deal for Thomas in offseason. Only teams that would be interested in trading for him would be SB contenders who can afford to give up first rounder at deadline. ARZ could legitimately be picking in Top 5 the way the season has gone so far.

We have no idea what Cards do regarding QB. I think its more likely they will astound us with an experienced QB which they seem to prefer. I could see Sam Bradford in a Cards uniform next season as being more likely than some heralded rookie. Instead of using R1 pick on QB, they take top WR to replace our favorite son, Gerald Fitzsimmons.

 

[DVontel]

We have no idea what Cards do regarding QB. I think its more likely they will astound us with an experienced QB which they seem to prefer. I could see Sam Bradford in a Cards uniform next season as being more likely than some heralded rookie. Instead of using R1 pick on QB, they take top WR to replace our favorite son, Gerald Fitzsimmons.

Yea, let’s hope they still don’t have this mindset.

 

[daves]

BA can be intimidating and very demanding. He says he’s a delegator, but he more of a control freak.

Really?
...dbs

 

[wit3card]

I agree, Harry. As I said, trading for Thomas would not be in line with Keim's off-season approach this year. If Keim was truly "all in" on this year, we'd know it by now.

My hunch is that Keim already knows this is BA’s last year, which explains for his deferring of the QBOF decision, because Keim wants to match the new QBs with the new HC.

It would also explain why Keim has been so conservative this year in his free agent signings. 2018 is looking more and more like a clean slate for whomever is taking over as HC.

I would speculate that there is much more of a disconnect between Keim and BA than anyone realizes. They put up a united front to the media, but behind closed doors there are some fundamental differences about personnel philosophies and how to develop players within the system. I would bet pretty much anything that Keim is not happy with BA’s croneyism when it comes to his coaches (Amos Jones, especially) and to some of his roster favorites.

My biggest fear has been that MB and SK would feel compelled to promote within the current staff someone like Goodwin or Bettcher to HC. There are too many things going wrong with the coaching to take that leap of faith. But, BA can be intimidating and very demanding. He says he’s a delegator, but he more of a control freak. And nothing would please BA more than to ride off into the sunset with his "coaching tree” in place. Who could blame him? BA would have wanted to be the next man up as HC in Pittsburgh, so he wants more than anything for Goodwin or Bettcher to get the treatment he never got in Pittsburgh.

However, in light of Steve Keim’s current dispostion, it encourages me to think that he and MB are going to want a clean break from the current staff and start afresh with a HC they feel can take the Cardinals to the next level.

BA and his staff helped bring the Cardinals back into contention, and for that, BA and the coaches deserve the raises they got…but BA's brand of coaching and style of play have gone stale, exceedingly predictable and very much outdated.

While Keim has made some mistakes personnel-wise (which he readily admits to), would anyone feel comfortable drafting for BA? BA leans on over the hill veterans and distrusts younger players. One reason why the Cardinals do not have a young QB is BA’s insufferable loyalty to Drew Stantton, for example.

The player development as a whole from BA’s staff over 5 years has been negligible. Look at the offensive and defensive lines. They keep getting worse. When so many players fail and/or regress from one year to the next–it then speaks more to the coaching than the GM.

I have thought about this very topic myself the last week, and I came to same conclusion.

This has to be BA's last season. Keim did load the draft for 2018.

But more, it hit me after analysing our draftclass.
We picked a ILB player that isn't a match for Bettcher, but is a great player for a D needing a ILB next year, and at that time wasn't meant to be a starter from day 1 this year but learning from dansby.
We picked a S that is a real FS and doesn't match Bettcher, but can be a great player for our D in the future
We picked a WR, BA said he didn't want a WR, but 6.1 and 4.37 fast, Keim drafted a WR that could become a #2 in any HC repertoure, probably on some teams would already start (not so under BA, in his rookie year he at best gets some catches, and for now he does make catches when his number gets called)
We picked a OL player for the future RG or LG would be okay if developed, the talent wasn't a question, health till now doesn't seem to be a problem. So this draft pick could be for the future but also to see if the coaching does "anything" and for now, it doesn't look like it.
We picked another OT Holden should project as a RT, what we need next year, you don't try a tackle in his first year at either side if he isn't a #1 rounder, so this is another pick for 2018.
then we picked TJ Logan, RB fast good runner and KR/PR for the future because we saw what our ST coach did with him ... nothing, there are no holes to run
we picked a DB 6 foot 4.34s fast another CB that waits in the wings.

So overall, this wasn't a draft for BA or the 2017 Cards for a last push, but that was already said during the draft days. But seeing what was done in FA and in Draft and adding only old veterans that doesn't count against us makes one really wonder if Keim doesn't have already Plan B in place.

From what I saw from Fitz, I think he has another 3-5 years in the tank. Would he be part of a rebuild, maybe under the right coach, but not for sure. Palmer after this season is probably done, to much hits/sacks. He will not come back.

Since Keim has only in the HC segment and can't fire any coach expect for BA that makes one wonder. I'm sure Keim wanted Amos gone, if anyone on this board and on the Cards own forum board want Amos gone ... I'm sure Keim saw it as well.

I'm also sure that Keim isn't that much pleased over the statements of ex O-line player that seem to do well for Chicago or a D-line player that called out the coaches ... Goodwin + Bettcher our OC (and offensive line coach) and D coordinator. So I suppose that Keim is well aware of this, and from what I recall, Keim did bring Iupati a former #1 and all pro that got worse every year playing in our Offense and he is still only 30 years old, Cooper #1 pick that showed promises before he got injured and after that, was probably destoryed by "doghouse" culture, now in Dallas for depth, but still in the league in his 5th season, Humphries #1 rounder, Watford #3, Massie was already here and left, and he got Valdheer that was a great asset at LT at beginning, last year he was still okayish when healthy but a decline was visible and now at RT he is a desaster. There were other O-line player that where drafted between 4th and 7th round and you know what, we start Shipley at center after Keim had to bring Sendline back.

Keim gave the O- Coordinator everything you wish for, 100 times more to work with, than our hated Grimm had in his tenure. But the outcome? Isn't that much better. Palmer isn't running for his life ... but not because he isn't threatned, but because he is a staute.
Kevin Kolb would have died already behind our O-line.

So there is only one way to see it, Keim has Plan B going, because the only other conclusion would be that Keim is blind and inept as an GM.

i'm more inclined to the first assumption so, Mitch I think you are spot on.

 

[NMCard]

They have lost well over 100 games since they drafted him.

 

[Snakester]

It would make sense to get Thomas to give Palmer his last chance but I don't think it happens.

 

[Mitch]

I have thought about this very topic myself the last week, and I came to same conclusion.

This has to be BA's last season. Keim did load the draft for 2018.

But more, it hit me after analysing our draftclass.
We picked a ILB player that isn't a match for Bettcher, but is a great player for a D needing a ILB next year, and at that time wasn't meant to be a starter from day 1 this year but learning from dansby.
We picked a S that is a real FS and doesn't match Bettcher, but can be a great player for our D in the future
We picked a WR, BA said he didn't want a WR, but 6.1 and 4.37 fast, Keim drafted a WR that could become a #2 in any HC repertoure, probably on some teams would already start (not so under BA, in his rookie year he at best gets some catches, and for now he does make catches when his number gets called)
We picked a OL player for the future RG or LG would be okay if developed, the talent wasn't a question, health till now doesn't seem to be a problem. So this draft pick could be for the future but also to see if the coaching does "anything" and for now, it doesn't look like it.
We picked another OT Holden should project as a RT, what we need next year, you don't try a tackle in his first year at either side if he isn't a #1 rounder, so this is another pick for 2018.
then we picked TJ Logan, RB fast good runner and KR/PR for the future because we saw what our ST coach did with him ... nothing, there are no holes to run
we picked a DB 6 foot 4.34s fast another CB that waits in the wings.

So overall, this wasn't a draft for BA or the 2017 Cards for a last push, but that was already said during the draft days. But seeing what was done in FA and in Draft and adding only old veterans that doesn't count against us makes one really wonder if Keim doesn't have already Plan B in place.

From what I saw from Fitz, I think he has another 3-5 years in the tank. Would he be part of a rebuild, maybe under the right coach, but not for sure. Palmer after this season is probably done, to much hits/sacks. He will not come back.

Since Keim has only in the HC segment and can't fire any coach expect for BA that makes one wonder. I'm sure Keim wanted Amos gone, if anyone on this board and on the Cards own forum board want Amos gone ... I'm sure Keim saw it as well.

I'm also sure that Keim isn't that much pleased over the statements of ex O-line player that seem to do well for Chicago or a D-line player that called out the coaches ... Goodwin + Bettcher our OC (and offensive line coach) and D coordinator. So I suppose that Keim is well aware of this, and from what I recall, Keim did bring Iupati a former #1 and all pro that got worse every year playing in our Offense and he is still only 30 years old, Cooper #1 pick that showed promises before he got injured and after that, was probably destoryed by "doghouse" culture, now in Dallas for depth, but still in the league in his 5th season, Humphries #1 rounder, Watford #3, Massie was already here and left, and he got Valdheer that was a great asset at LT at beginning, last year he was still okayish when healthy but a decline was visible and now at RT he is a desaster. There were other O-line player that where drafted between 4th and 7th round and you know what, we start Shipley at center after Keim had to bring Sendline back.

Keim gave the O- Coordinator everything you wish for, 100 times more to work with, than our hated Grimm had in his tenure. But the outcome? Isn't that much better. Palmer isn't running for his life ... but not because he isn't threatned, but because he is a staute.
Kevin Kolb would have died already behind our O-line.

So there is only one way to see it, Keim has Plan B going, because the only other conclusion would be that Keim is blind and inept as an GM.

i'm more inclined to the first assumption so, Mitch I think you are spot on.

If this isn't the case, wit3card, and this is what we now can expect from Steve Keim, we may be cellar dwellers in the NFC West for years.

Keim is being way too passive and quiet. Something is brewing. Has to be.

 

[cardpa]

As key NFC contender wannabes peer into the crystal ball, the looming figure that keeps emerging is the Browns' All-Pro LT Joe Thomas. If one man can make a difference for several NFC teams, Thomas appears to be that man.

Thomas has said that he wants to still be on the Browns when they finally are contenders, but he admits that it might not be realistic to assume he will. He has one year remaining on his contract, for which his cap figure is $8.8M. That would be a steal for any team...to land Thomas for the balance of this year and for next year for a paltry $8.8M per.

Packers

Last night we watched the Packers beat da Bears with 4 guards and a center. What a timely coup it would be for them to make a move for Joe Thomas. If the Packers would be willing to offer their 2018 1st round pick, the Browns might jump at the offer.

Seahawks

The Seahawks already managed to acquire DT Sheldon Richardson. Could they pull the Thomas ace out of their other sleeve? Losing LT George Fant to injury has forced them to switch G Oday Aboushi over to LT. Adding Thomas would be a major coup and a possible panacea for their offensive woes. With a small window left with such a superb but aging defense, the Seahawks might feel the urgency to shoot for the moon and do whatever it takes to land Thomas.

Giants

At 0-3, no NFC hopeful feels more desperate at this point than the Giants. Their LT Ereck Flowers remains a liability and is one of the reasons why the Giants' high-flying offense has been under-achieving. adding Thomas could push them well over the hump and give them a chance to get quickly back into the playoff hunt.

Cardinals

Anyone who watched the Cardinals offensive line get abused by the Cowboys' 3 man rush on MNF knows what adding an All-Pro tackle like Joe Thomas would mean to their playoff chances. Talk about small windows. Carson Palmer and Larry Fitzgerald are likely in their last seasons and it looks very clear that the Cardinals need some kind of a jump start and a morale boost. Adding Thomas could be the best answer possible. However, if GM Steve Keim's ultra-conservative, frugal off-season moves are an indication of where he thinks the Cardinals are heading, Keim will likely prefer to pin his hopes on the return of D.J. Humphries with a belief that struggling RT Jared Veldheer can rediscover his mojo.

The NFC is largely up for grabs. While the Falcons, Lions and Packers look to be clear front runners at this point, each of those teams has its warts.

In the NFC West, the most significant off-season addition within the division already appears to be T Andrew Whitworth of the Rams.

The NFC team that lands Joe Thomas (if the deal can be made) may be the one to punch their tickets for Minnesota.

Well Mitch it will be interesting when the Cardinals throw 3 centers and two guards out there Sunday.

 

[Finito]

He doesn't want to leave he is loved in Cleveland.

 

[CardsFan88]

OL and WR. We still have a #3 and 4 #4-5's. I've stated at times for years that we need a true #1 and possibly a #2. Now it's just obvious.

 

[cardpa]

Actually when you think about it why doesn't Arians go with a jumbo package right from the start. Your 5 normal linemen and then a sixth as a TE and then your best blocking TE. Talk about messing with the SF defense.

 

[juza76]

when does the race officially start ?
suppositions or is out there a valid source
do u think thomas in the case he is free will chose the cardinals over other teams ?
if yes why?
one of the reason he may want to play next to bohem and shipley?