The NFL should step in...

[conraddobler]

Walk out all you want all you will do is get on sports center and make everyone laugh at both the Cardinals and AZ more than they already are.

This includes any possible free agents it's a catch 22 they see you walkout and no one will come here and Bidwill will still make money you cannot win.

The NFL will never do anything.. EVER, Bidwill is owner of a charter franchise and they will blame AZ for not building a stadlium sooner they will never ever do anything nothing zip nada.

I for one think expecting Rod Graves to fix a mess over a decade in the making is being a bit impatient. He drafted well that's an improvement he signed the guys. They are young and you cannot fix that fast.

He's doing the right thing building it with new people in two years then call for his head if things are still this bad right now you can't do anything.

Mizzou was this bad or worse as far as Division 1 college football. It isn't entirely accurate to compare the two but it isn't bad either since they hired the guy people the last two years called for his head and he could have caved last year and shot his wad by playing a bunch of kids he redshirted because the defense was just horrid but he didn't and now they are 3-0 for the first time since 1981 which is amazing since everyone schedules cupcakes early so you can imagine how bad you have to be to avoid this for so long.

The point is blaming Graves is easy since he failed to get Holiday and Colvin and he didn't sign anyone else to speak of but no one else would have fit long term and wouldn't have made this team a contender anyway. Play the kids and get it over with. King Pace Bell and Bryant are going to be good but they won't be this year just play em and get it over with also lock whoever you like up during the last part of the season and then hunt for holes next year and try harder to get players like Holliday and Colvin.

In two years if the put up anywhere near this bad an effort Graves deserves to be fired but not now.

 

[Sandan]

 

[BW52]

Good point Conrad.Give a little time to see what happens.Don`t throw the baby out with the bathwater .

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by conraddobler

In two years if the put up anywhere near this bad an effort Graves deserves to be fired but not now.

You want to watch two years of this? I'll be interested to see how Graves handles Mac if we continue to get our hats handed to us - his choice of coach and who he can get to believe in him will be the ultimate measuring stick.

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by conraddobler
Walk out all you want all you will do is get on sports center and make everyone laugh at both the Cardinals and AZ more than they already are.

This includes any possible free agents it's a catch 22 they see you walkout and no one will come here and Bidwill will still make money you cannot win.

The NFL will never do anything.. EVER, Bidwill is owner of a charter franchise and they will blame AZ for not building a stadlium sooner they will never ever do anything nothing zip nada.

I for one think expecting Rod Graves to fix a mess over a decade in the making is being a bit impatient. He drafted well that's an improvement he signed the guys. They are young and you cannot fix that fast.

He's doing the right thing building it with new people in two years then call for his head if things are still this bad right now you can't do anything.

Mizzou was this bad or worse as far as Division 1 college football. It isn't entirely accurate to compare the two but it isn't bad either since they hired the guy people the last two years called for his head and he could have caved last year and shot his wad by playing a bunch of kids he redshirted because the defense was just horrid but he didn't and now they are 3-0 for the first time since 1981 which is amazing since everyone schedules cupcakes early so you can imagine how bad you have to be to avoid this for so long.

The point is blaming Graves is easy since he failed to get Holiday and Colvin and he didn't sign anyone else to speak of but no one else would have fit long term and wouldn't have made this team a contender anyway. Play the kids and get it over with. King Pace Bell and Bryant are going to be good but they won't be this year just play em and get it over with also lock whoever you like up during the last part of the season and then hunt for holes next year and try harder to get players like Holliday and Colvin.

In two years if the put up anywhere near this bad an effort Graves deserves to be fired but not now.

I do not recall anyone calling for Gary Pinkels...head...that I don't believe happened....he is the best thing to happen to Mizzou football...Hard work...non stop drive....But what you say is true...it would be pointless to walk out....RG...next year will get better players...thru FA...he would be an idiot...to Fail 2yrs in a row....He won't ...but this year he failed...and getting the lower round guys that stick...doesn't mean there top notch players....and Pace...sure gets pushed outside of the play...more often than not...so far Bryant is a Bust...and Graves has not done anything that You or me or anyone else...couldn't have done givin the chance. HE is not a mastermind like some want us to think..........But the Cards...are really bad......

 

[AndyO]

It's funny that the idea of the NFL stepping in has come up , because it was something I was thinking about while listening to todays debacle. It reminded me of the NY Giants of the late 1970's ( I grew up in northern NJ). The Giants were a total laughingstock all through the 70's , and the front office was a total joke. People were burning their tickets before games, someone hired a plane to fly over Giants Stadium pulling a sign complaining about the years of crappy football. The franchise, basically , was in total shambles, plus the fact that Wellington Mara and his brother ( can't remember his first name) were locked in some sort of power struggle over control of the club, and nothing was getting done to improve the team on the field.

Well, anyway, Pete Rozelle, NFL commissioner, stepped in and forced the Mara's to hire George Young as team GM. Young had had a hand in building both the Baltimore Colts of the 1960's and the Miami Dolphins of the 1970's, and was considered the leading front office man of his day. The Giants were finally run professionally, Young built a consistent winner and the NFL was saved the embarassment of its flagship franchise being a national laughingstock.

So there is precedent for the NFL to get involved with a member club. I doubt Tagliabue would go to such measures here, and , who knows, Graves could develop into a top GM given time. Plus, what proven GM is out there that could turn us around?

Food for thought.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by AndyO
Plus, what proven GM is out there that could turn us around?

Food for thought.

Jimmy Johnson for GM - he can use it as the ultimate ego stroker. No one can deny the guy's got the best eye for talent in the business and would give htis team INSTANT credibility - it probably won't ever happen but if Rozelle did that with the Giants - who knows.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by nidan
Why is that ?

If Graves was committed to being proactive, then he blew it big-time. He even told us that he misjudged the free-agent market.

That is grounds for dismissal in a do-or-die league.

The losses don't hurt me as nearly as much as the thought of having to endure the player/coach turnstile every 2-3 years.

Let's face it... Anquan Boldin, Bryant Johnson, and/or Calvin Pace will likely be elsewhere once their contracts are up.

How are you supposed to see the light if there is nothing to look forward to?

Nidan, are you satisfied with the direction of this franchise? Do you trust them to put a winning and enjoyable product on the field once the new Stadium is completed? If so, what gives you the optimism?

 

[jmr667]

Originally posted by conraddobler


In two years if the put up anywhere near this bad an effort Graves deserves to be fired but not now.

How many years have we been saying "give it a couple more years they are rebuilding/changing/etc."?
At least 5 too many.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Jimmy Johnson for GM - he can use it as the ultimate ego stroker. No one can deny the guy's got the best eye for talent in the business and would give htis team INSTANT credibility - it probably won't ever happen but if Rozelle did that with the Giants - who knows.

That must have been why he was so successful in Miami.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Renz
That must have been why he was so successful in Miami.

give me break - are you going to tell me that the guy can't judge defensive talent - I'm not saying bring him in here as coach - but the talent he put together on Miami's Defense is still tops in the league. Not to mention he had to deal with the mess Don Shula and MEAN JOE GREENE left for him when they scooted out of town.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Renz
That must have been why he was so successful in Miami.

oh and I'm sorry if going to the playoffs every year but his first shouldn't be considered successful especially to a franchise as patently pathetic as ours is.

Also - I'mmsure Dllas demise had nothing to do with their horrible drafts since he left there right - I mean Jeezx -the guy only won Two Super Bowls and resurrected that team from the dead and they gravy trained off him for four years after ward.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
oh and I'm sorry if going to the playoffs every year but his first shouldn't be considered successful especially to a franchise as patently pathetic as ours is.

Also - I'mmsure Dllas demise had nothing to do with their horrible drafts since he left there right - I mean Jeezx -the guy only won Two Super Bowls and resurrected that team from the dead and they gravy trained off him for four years after ward.

The Vikings gave him about 10 extra draft picks for Herschel Walker in Dallas. Those were the days before the salary cap when he could stockpile his team with 2nd and 3rd stringers that would have started on other teams. Plus, he had Troy Aikman.

I see no reason why he would be able to turn around the Cardinals. He is happy to sit down in The Keys and he has no interest in a job like Graves's.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Renz
The Vikings gave him about 10 extra draft picks for Herschel Walker in Dallas. Those were the days before the salary cap when he could stockpile his team with 2nd and 3rd stringers that would have started on other teams. Plus, he had Troy Aikman.

I see no reason why he would be able to turn around the Cardinals. He is happy to sit down in The Keys and he has no interest in a job like Graves's.

that's why I said it will probably never happen - actually it WILL never happen unfortunately - but are you gonna tell me that Jimmy Johnson doesn't have an eye for defensive talent? Regardless if he had those picks or not - he knew what to do with them and the league pilfered that team after they won Super Bowls.

Well let me ask you this - if you don't think he could ever turn the Cards around - WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK COULD?

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Renz
The Vikings gave him about 10 extra draft picks for Herschel Walker in Dallas. Those were the days before the salary cap when he could stockpile his team with 2nd and 3rd stringers that would have started on other teams. Plus, he had Troy Aikman.

I see no reason why he would be able to turn around the Cardinals. He is happy to sit down in The Keys and he has no interest in a job like Graves's.

Ohhhhh...you are so WRONG!

You know that Jimmy Johnson is just salivating about a job here.

Imagine the boost to his already overinflated ego if he could say that HE was responsible for turning this orginization around.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Well let me ask you this - if you don't think he could ever turn the Cards around - WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK COULD?

Tom Landry!

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[b8rtm8nn]

RG will fire Mac and hire a new coach, if that doesn't happen, then that will be his demise. What's his face in Chicago is in the same boat with Jauron - who had a freak season that saved his job for a couple of years.

I will bet that Mac is gone mid season and then we will see what RG is made of, he hasn't even had a year yet.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
that's why I said it will probably never happen - actually it WILL never happen unfortunately - but are you gonna tell me that Jimmy Johnson doesn't have an eye for defensive talent? Regardless if he had those picks or not - he knew what to do with them and the league pilfered that team after they won Super Bowls.

Well let me ask you this - if you don't think he could ever turn the Cards around - WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK COULD?

I honestly don't know at this point. I think that maybe a head coach with a proven track record in the NFL would be a good start.

I like Mac, but it is obvious that he isn't getting the most (anything?) out of this team. Limited talent pool notwithstanding.

 

[PACardsFan]

Mac is a great guy & all, but he HAS to be held accountable for the piss poor execution. I have watched him on the sidelines @ he's way too civil towards these guys. This team needs a solid boot in the a$$. Forget that rah, rah crap. The biggest mistake this organization has made the last 5 years, was to keep hiring from within. CLEAN HOUSE & have the new coach come from another organization altogether. We have way too many coaches that Know nothing but LOSING!!!!!! MAC MUST GO.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by b8rtm8nn
RG will fire Mac and hire a new coach, if that doesn't happen, then that will be his demise. What's his face in Chicago is in the same boat with Jauron - who had a freak season that saved his job for a couple of years.
I will bet that Mac is gone mid season and then we will see what RG is made of, he hasn't even had a year yet.

I'll take that bet. Nothing I like more than depriving a fool of his money.

 

[PACardsFan]

It's painful to say this, but Mac is probably the WORST coach the Cardinals have had since they've been in the desert. Stallings was probably the best, we fired him way too soon. Bugel at least had us competetive when he left. Even BUDDY was better. We were 8-8 his 1st year & just missed the playoffs. Granted, he screwed up the cap, but that wasn't his forte anyways. Tobin was a solid football man, but NOT a motivator & HE DID GET US TO THE PLAYOFFS. If I were running the show, I'd start lining up an EXPERIENCED coach ASAP. No more hiring assistants!!!!!!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by PACardsFan
It's painful to say this, but Mac is probably the WORST coach the Cardinals have had since they've been in the desert. Stallings was probably the best, we fired him way too soon. Bugel at least had us competetive when he left. Even BUDDY was better. We were 8-8 his 1st year & just missed the playoffs. Granted, he screwed up the cap, but that wasn't his forte anyways. Tobin was a solid football man, but NOT a motivator & HE DID GET US TO THE PLAYOFFS. If I were running the show, I'd start lining up an EXPERIENCED coach ASAP. No more hiring assistants!!!!!!

I must say there is very little of this post that I would much agree with.
First of all I would say that anyone who comes here and says Buddy Ryan is better than ANYONE that has coached here damages their credibility quite seriously.

I think its safe to say I was not alone in thinking that Bugel got kind of a raw deal and didn't deserve to be fired when he was.
Buddy's 8-8 record that you refer to is more realistically just a carry over of Bugel's team. Once Buddy was here long enough to have an actual effect this team went south in just about every way possible....and I maintain to this day that Vince Tobin is dissed a lot more than he should be....he had a hell of a mess to clean up after Buddy left.

Gene Stallings may have been a popular coach with the fans...Vallley National Bank sure liked to use him in their commercials...but I think his ego got a little too big and he started butting heads with Bill Bidwill....not too smart... and it cost him.

I say Mac will be fine....as will the Cards. I look forward to his making people who post comments like you have, eat crow.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I say Mac will be fine....as will the Cards. I look forward to his making people who post comments like you have, eat crow.

Hmmm...yummy...Crow!

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The question is Tango, who eats it?

Me? I love crow...

 

[Tangodnzr]

The question is Tango, who eats it?

There seems to be quite a few people who post here who evidently have aquired a taste for it....they keep insisting on multiple helpings.

As for me...I so seldom eat it that I can't say as I've acquired much of a taste for it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
There seems to be quite a few people who post here who evidently have aquired a taste for it....they keep insisting on multiple helpings.

As for me...I so seldom eat it that I can't say as I've acquired much of a taste for it.

Which of us enjoy eating crow -is it those of us who have maintained how bad this team was going to be this season Tango? Are you really this delusional? Show me where "a few people" have been forced to eat crow . . . besides yourself?