The Official Bradley Sowell Era Thread

[D-Dogg]

K9, you didn't really support anything different than what I said. Tilt at windmills all you like, but the final 53 and the actual 46 that dress aren't that different. There are definitely a lot of cap games and depth wiggle that lives in the "naked 7" that don't dress, but you have given absolutely no basis that SK forced BA to keep RW in that group, other than conjecture.

Tell me who was leaking the "ryan williams trade bait" articles then if it wasn't Keim? And BA has talked up Stephan Taylor a bunch two and he's had what, 4 touches this year?

MAYBE Keim forced BA to keep RW. But there's absolutely no proof of that. What we have proof of is that BA has not spoken well of RW's desire to be on the field but has spoken well of his talent, Keim has spoken well of him but there were several reports of him being on the trade block, and now he doesn't dress but made the team. You can look at that all kinds of ways, but the bottom line is we have no idea what is really going on with that situation.

In the Scho situation, that has no Keim on it at all. Mid-preseason cuts are 100 percent the coach's call, and the only way the GM is going to override it is if its going to cause a massive cap issue.

 

[kerouac9]

In the Scho situation, that has no Keim on it at all. Mid-preseason cuts are 100 percent the coach's call, and the only way the GM is going to override it is if its going to cause a massive cap issue.

"Mid-preseason"!? Check your facts, bro. Schofield was cut before the conditioning test. That's entirely a GM's decision. On what evidence would BA have to request his release?

I suppose that BA could've tried to nix it, but I'm guessing that BA has to choose his battles, and John Abraham (who has zero sacks to Schofield's 2 this season--but whatever) was coming in.

 

[D-Dogg]

"Mid-preseason"!? Check your facts, bro. Schofield was cut before the conditioning test. That's entirely a GM's decision. On what evidence would BA have to request his release?

I stand corrected on Scho. I thought he was released during TC but you are correct.

 

[SECTION 11]

We are still totally beating the Panthers tomorrow.

 

[Mulli]

Not much of a drop off yet. Yay! :head2head:

 

[GatorAZ]

We are still totally beating the Panthers tomorrow.

CP disagrees.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

A cancer was excised when Brown was sent packing. I hope that I never see his face again.

 

[PDXChris]

I only noticed him effect a play a couple of time, both good and bad. That is an improvement.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

He started out bad. But seemed to improve as the games went on.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

He did a pretty decent job, all things considered. He recovered fast because he seemed to get beat on the first steps a lot by Hardy, so he does move better than Levi. Let's see how he holds up for the next few games.

 

[crisper57]

He can give up the occasional sack. Just no drive-killing penalties and he will be an upgrade!

Good trade so far!!!

 

[CFLredzoned]

He started out bad. But seemed to improve as the games went on.

Yeah that's what I thought. At first, it looked like he was in for a long beatdown. Guys ran right by him. But the second half, he looked like he was holding up - pushing the edge rusher out and away from the pocket pretty decent. I didn't see Carolina run many stunts at him though. Didn't they get the memo? The one stunt I remember seeing on his side got picked up by somebody inside. I think we had 3 on 2. I'm sure there had to be more stunts, but that's all I remember seeing.

 

[kerouac9]

He can give up the occasional sack. Just no drive-killing penalties and he will be an upgrade!

Good trade so far!!!

I heard this same thing when we let Leonard Davis go, and the history/consistency of the "drive-killing penalties" was over-stated then, as well.

Can you substantiate your claim that somehow Levi Brown committed more "drive killing" penalties than the average OL?

 

[D-Dogg]

I heard this same thing when we let Leonard Davis go, and the history/consistency of the "drive-killing penalties" was over-stated then, as well.

Can you substantiate your claim that somehow Levi Brown committed more "drive killing" penalties than the average OL?

You can stop now K9. The ship has sailed. Levi is gone, people are happy, and his UDFA backup went un-noticed. Stop asking for substantiation of things that can't be substantiated. Opinions can't be...but they are made by observation. "Drive Killing penalties" isn't a tracked stat, so quit with the cute requests for links. You don't provide any for your opinions, so stop with that particular gambit. You are actually too good for that.

FWIW, it doesn't take very many "drive-killing" penalties to get a reputation for doing it too much...the one Leonard Davis game killing false start alone cements that legacy with him;

The penalty flag was thrown, and suddenly, I thought of Leonard Davis. No, not because big Len was on the other sideline for the Cowboys. Because I remember a sweaty September day at Sun Devil Stadium in 2005, when the Cards had reached the Rams’ 5-yard line down five points in the waning seconds. A comeback win was within reach – except Davis was called for a false start with seven seconds left. The Cards had no timeouts left, and by rule, that meant a 10-second runoff. It meant a very difficult way to lose a chance to win.

Levi had more than a handful of similar plays (though none as bad as that one, which I still remember the god-awful trudge out through lot D afterwards). Those are just horrific plays, and yes, Levi had a knack for putting up the dumb play at the worst time possible. Do I have proof for that? No, but you don't have proof that anyone does that because it's not a stat. However, I have vivid memories, just like the Rams debacle, that can't be undone with "he played super duper gang sometimes in the last calendar year" comments.

He was replaced with an UDFA against a fierce front 7. Nobody really noticed. The end. Please make it so.

 

[kerouac9]

You can stop now K9. The ship has sailed. Levi is gone, people are happy, and his UDFA backup went un-noticed. Stop asking for substantiation of things that can't be substantiated. Opinions can't be...but they are made by observation. "Drive Killing penalties" isn't a tracked stat, so quit with the cute requests for links. You don't provide any for your opinions, so stop with that particular gambit. You are actually too good for that.

FWIW, it doesn't take very many "drive-killing" penalties to get a reputation for doing it too much...the one Leonard Davis game killing false start alone cements that legacy with him;



Levi had more than a handful of similar plays (though none as bad as that one, which I still remember the god-awful trudge out through lot D afterwards). Those are just horrific plays, and yes, Levi had a knack for putting up the dumb play at the worst time possible. Do I have proof for that? No, but you don't have proof that anyone does that because it's not a stat. However, I have vivid memories, just like the Rams debacle, that can't be undone with "he played super duper gang sometimes in the last calendar year" comments.

He was replaced with an UDFA against a fierce front 7. Nobody really noticed. The end. Please make it so.

It's not a stat that anyone tracks, because it happens so rarely. But it is a stat. A penalty on third-down and "doable" (say, third and less than 6) would be a fine measure for such a metric.

Just so you're thinking about what you're asserting, in 2011, Levi Brown had 6 penalties for 45 yards--4 false starts, 1 holding. This year, he had 2 penalties--1 false start, 1 holding. Are you saying that ALL of these effectively killed drives? 60% of them? Levi hasn't had more than 6 penalties in a season since 2009.

 

[D-Dogg]

It's not a stat that anyone tracks, because it happens so rarely. But it is a stat. A penalty on third-down and "doable" (say, third and less than 6) would be a fine measure for such a metric.

Just so you're thinking about what you're asserting, in 2011, Levi Brown had 6 penalties for 45 yards--4 false starts, 1 holding. This year, he had 2 penalties--1 false start, 1 holding. Are you saying that ALL of these effectively killed drives? 60% of them? Levi hasn't had more than 6 penalties in a season since 2009.

I would love it to be tracked as a stat; it would be quite interesting.

I don't think it is only applicable to penalties, however. Throw in sacks allowed, and hurries & hits allowed and yes, I do think that Levi would be in the bottom tier of OTs in making serious gaffes when the game is on the line.

But third and doable, as you suggest, isn't the be-all for that stat-the most maddening are the ones where you allow a sack and move the team out of FG range (as we did to carolina tonight) or a penalty on first down, to make it 1st and 20 or 1st and 15, which completely lets the air out of an offense's tires. Those are what come to mind more than anything else when Levi's problems are brought up. His solid run blocking never made up for that.

 

[kerouac9]

I would love it to be tracked as a stat; it would be quite interesting.

I don't think it is only applicable to penalties, however. Throw in sacks allowed, and hurries & hits allowed and yes, I do think that Levi would be in the bottom tier of OTs in making serious gaffes when the game is on the line.

But third and doable, as you suggest, isn't the be-all for that stat-the most maddening are the ones where you allow a sack and move the team out of FG range (as we did to carolina tonight) or a penalty on first down, to make it 1st and 20 or 1st and 15, which completely lets the air out of an offense's tires. Those are what come to mind more than anything else when Levi's problems are brought up. His solid run blocking never made up for that.

I have no problem arguing that Levi gave up some bad sacks. The issue that I took with your post was that Levi was somehow susceptible to giving up game-killing penalties. Now it seems like you're uncomfortable substantiating that assertion, and you're moving the goal posts all over the place.

So now, according to you, pretty much every penalty or sack (or, apparently, hit or even hurry) is considered "drive-killing." I think that's probably a little too expansive to be useful.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I have no problem arguing that Levi gave up some bad sacks. The issue that I took with your post was that Levi was somehow susceptible to giving up game-killing penalties. Now it seems like you're uncomfortable substantiating that assertion, and you're moving the goal posts all over the place.

So now, according to you, pretty much every penalty or sack (or, apparently, hit or even hurry) is considered "drive-killing." I think that's probably a little too expansive to be useful.

Hmm... good point.

I have a point. Levi Brown sucks and is no longer on the team!

Whooo hoo!!!!!!!!!

He can go be "middle tier" for the Steelers.

 

[Mulli]

I have no problem arguing that Levi gave up some bad sacks. The issue that I took with your post was that Levi was somehow susceptible to giving up game-killing penalties. Now it seems like you're uncomfortable substantiating that assertion, and you're moving the goal posts all over the place.

So now, according to you, pretty much every penalty or sack (or, apparently, hit or even hurry) is considered "drive-killing." I think that's probably a little too expansive to be useful.

1-20 or 3-17 isn't drive-killing for Cards' garbage offense?

And, tell me one poster on here who doesn't move the goalposts once in a while.

 

[Mulli]

Hmm... good point.

I have a point. Levi Brown sucks and is no longer on the team!

Whooo hoo!!!!!!!!!

He can go be "middle tier" for the Steelers.

I am pretty sure, Levi was termed bottom tier (bottom third of league) in the off-season. Not sure if we can upgrade him to middle 3rd based on this season.

Maybe if we just watch those 5 games in 2011.

 

[Mulli]

Ben Muth ‏@FO_wordofmuth 8 Sep
Levi Brown is so bad. Have to send help his way every third down. #foaud

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Steve Keim "We are very, very excited about Bradley Sowell. Very similar to Alameda Ta mu (whatever), a guy who has not played a lot of football. But hopefully, like Alameda, he can succeed when given a chance."


Hope is not a plan.

Alameda has played very well, and so far Sowell played better than Mr. Brown did. What do you want him to say "We think Sowell is a ProBowler"?

 

[Mulli]

Not much of a drop off yet. Yay! :head2head:

I posted this yesterday. Give me a break.

 

[DutchmanAZ]

I think he did pretty good....

http://espn.go.com/blog/arizona-cardinals/post/_/id/1502/lt-sowell-seen-but-not-heard-from-sunday

 

[crisper57]

I heard this same thing when we let Leonard Davis go, and the history/consistency of the "drive-killing penalties" was over-stated then, as well.

Can you substantiate your claim that somehow Levi Brown committed more "drive killing" penalties than the average OL?

With the QB play we had the last few years, going 10 yards in 3 downs proved difficult enough, so it could be argued that just about any penalty that made that more difficult was a "drive killer". But I know that won't satisfy you, so I will endeavor to provide more data behind my assertion.

I am not going to look at every OL in the League because doing this sort of analysis on a team I know well took me a couple of hours. So let's just say Levi doesn't have to be compare with the league-wide. Let's keep this limited to the Cardinals.

Since 2009 (excluding last year because of his injury), the Cardinal Offensive line was responsible for 78 penalties for 539 yards. Each of those years, Levi was the top penalty-getter for our OL. By himself, he accounted for 24 penalties for 160 yards. Put another way, he was responsible for 1/3 of the penalties the OL got over those 4 years.

We can go a little deeper. Levi was called for 5 holding penalties over that period, while the rest of the OL was flagged 23 times. That's probably about an appropriate distribution of that penalty. Now let's look at false-starts, the drive-killingest penalty in the book, IMO, because it is pre-snap. In the last 4 years, the Cardinals OL (besides Levi) had 19 false starts. Levi had 15!!!

Nine of his penalties came on 1st and 10. 8 came on 2nd down and (10, 9, 2, 10, 5, 12, 4, 10). 7 came on 3rd down and (8, 8, 20, 1, 6, 5, 6). Wish I could do analysis on the outcomes of those drives, but that data is not readily available. However, if drive-killing penalties are equally distributed amongst the total penalties given, the Levi would have had more than his fair share. That's all I can off at this point, other than what my eyes have told me since he came into the league.

Link to data is here: http://www.nflpenalties.com/