The Official Leinart is Toast thread.

AzStevenCal

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As for blaming Fitz's injury on Matt's throw ? That is pretty poor logic.

The only thing that really bothers me about that throw is Carter's comments. I can't help wondering if he didn't hear this directly from Fitz despite Cris's repeated denials. Fitz had made several non-supportive statements over the past 6 months about Leinart and even when he's endorsed him it's been a mild endorsement at best. Is there a problem here?

Steve
 

RugbyMuffin

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LOL. Mitch, are you bi-polar?

FWIW, I like this side better.

No. But he writes his articles/threads from one prespective and sticks to it.

It is always the un-need sacasm that leads to name calling, that leads to lock outs of threads that doom some of his posts.

Not the information within, which whether or not I agree with, I always like reading.

Keep it up Mitch.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Four years ago...there was a Monday Night Football swagger and quiet confidence to Matt Leinart that has since faded...and now this week...this Monday night...Matt Leinart can retrieve that swagger and that quiet confidence and prove to the football world that he is back under the lights where he belongs, this time to stay.

Loss of swagger.... you may be on to something there. He does look more tense then when he was a rookie.

Whiz has that effect on QB's tho.
 

BW52

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A ridiculous notion. Anderson sucks, Skelton is way too green. Matty 's our QB, like it or lump it. GBR!

You ought to know that using common sense and sound reasoning is not allowed.The pea-brained haters will be on you like fleas on a dog.:D
 
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D-Dogg

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No. But he writes his articles/threads from one prespective and sticks to it.

Huh? Mitch also wrote a 180 degrees post from the one above, which was the reason for this thread.

Originally posted by Mitch said:
Leinart is Toast

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/leinart-is-toast-155953.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it time to face the music?

Matt Leinart is still on the roster because Rod Graves' pride is wrapped up in him.

Leinart is being pushed on Whiz the way DC Clancy Pendergast was.

Whiz is trying to be a team player and give Leinart a chance...he's pampered him, coddled him, coached the heck out of him...all for little return.

As feared by many fans, Matt Leinart is not a fit in Whiz's offense.

First and foremeost, he's not a fit because he can't make all the throws in this offense. John Skelton showed in his brief cameo an ability to throw passes that Leinart cannot make.

Secondly, he is not a leader...some of his teammates actually have very little respect for him. They think he's a wuss.

Thirdly, he's a china doll.

Fourthly, he's a run and duck player, even after the games.

Whiz has never truly warmed up to Leinart. With respect to Rod Graves Whiz has tried to groom him...but had Whiz been the HC in 2006, Leinart would have never been a Cardinal.

Whiz has tipped his hand toward Derek Anderson in a couple of ways. One is he revealed to Adam Shefter his excitment about Anderson when he was caught off-guard during a golf trip to Florida. Two is how Whiz stayed with Anderson this past Saturday as long as it took to get him playing well. Whiz and Anderson both needed that.

During the week Whiz kept emphasizing that he wanted Anderson to play behind the starting line. Why such emphasis?

Anderson---very much in need of Whiz's coaching---has something that Leinart doesn't: the big arm.

He has one other uncanny thing going for him...he's never been sacked more that 14 times in a season.

On December 2, 2007 Whiz watched the worst and best of Derek Anderson right here in Glendale. After coughing up 14 quick points off an interception (71 yds. by Roderick Hood) and a lost fumble which led to a Warner to Pope TD, Anderson reeled off a 304 yard, 2 TD performance, which included a 67 yard TD to Braylon Edwards and nearly included a perfectly thrown 37 yard strike to Kellen Winslow Jr. on the last play of the game that should have been called a game-winning TD or at least a pass interference, as the Cardinal DB clearly hit Winslow before the ball arrived and pushed him out of bounds.

At that time, it was only the Browns' second lost in their last 7 games...and Anderson was heading to the Pro Bowl.

Whiz believes he can smooth out Anderson's rough spots and is confident that with the Cardinals' WRs, Anderson can deliver some big numbers.

It's that simple.

Almost.

What makes it even more simple is what just happened to the team's All-World WR Larry Fitzgerald. Leinart led him---in a pre-season game no less---right into the teeth of the tiger---which resulted in a catch, but a nasty hit that sprained Fitz's MCL...a similar play that cost Anquan Boldin the opportunity to play in the home playoff game versus the Packers.

Today, one of Fitz's greatest supporters and friends, Cris Carter, implied to the media that---even though Carter insists Fitz didn't say it directly (to cover for Fitz)---Fitz needs to play with a QB with a stronger arm and a stronger sense of how to protect him.

Here's what may happen very quickly: (1) the Cardinals may make a move to trade for another QB to add to the mix; or (2) Anderson gets the start versus the Bears in pre-season game 3 and never looks back, and (3) with John Skelton playing so well in Game 1, that Skelton wins the #2, with Max Hall as #3, and Leinart is sent packing.

Brace yourselves. This is already in the works.


That's hardly one perspective and sticking to it. It is the exact opposite. Would have been interesting if he posted both together, but he posted them a day apart.
 

Duckjake

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What makes it even more simple is what just happened to the team's All-World WR Larry Fitzgerald. Leinart led him---in a pre-season game no less---right into the teeth of the tiger---which resulted in a catch, but a nasty hit that sprained Fitz's MCL...a similar play that cost Anquan Boldin the opportunity to play in the home playoff game versus the Packers.

Interesting. Matt "led" Fitz into...but he should have thrown the ball sooner and (harder)?

Again the ball was thrown to a spot. Turns out it was the wrong spot and should have been thrown about 2-3 yards to the right. Who picked the "spot" we don't know.
 
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There is only one post I feel obliged to comment upon from either TOAST thread, the following:
[B said:
Timm Rosenbach[/B]]
Leinart is the third most contraversial figure in Arizona Cardinals history...right behind Bill Bidwill and Buddy Ryan. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why. He played well, broke his collarbone, and was beat out by a future HOFer who caught fire and pulled off one of the most miraculous career comebacks in the history of the game.

For goodness sake, lets give the kid a season. As any reasonable football fan will tell you, He is the best Quarterback on the team this year.
Unbelieveable...

How could a Cardinals fan make the bolded statement above, omitting Jake Plummer?


But, other than that egregious fallacy, Timm's post makes great sense!
 

THESMEL

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yep

Or Tim Rosenbach walking away thats 2 ex cards that walked away from the nFL early, Why I put it on the fans, we aint worth the trouble because of stuff like this. Keep this fanhood up and Matt won't be able to leave fast enough like every other Cardinal in Arizona History! look at the list and Weep from Q, Rolle and Dansby backwards.

Rwmember it's 110 in the shade and were in the sun on metal bleachers at SDS, down 20 something in the first half as our Punter Tom Tupa takes over at QB! We shout across the field at the other fan in attendence need another beer yet? Yea Weve came along way baby now
Cardinal up and take it like a fan!

Matt did just fine, give trhe USC atmosphere, or even the rookie season atmosphere wher he ste NFL rookie records and had quite a stellar rookie season. At some poiint Arizona Cardinal Football Club Fans gotta take the lead. sorry I was at the panthers game last year and the game was over before fans even got seated part of it was the gates opening late and part of it was just plain lazy fans.

yea we showed up for Atlanta and the Eagles in the post season and Even the Packers but We need to keep the stands full and rocking when they need us the most and that starts with rallinging around our local gunfighter, all of him the good and the bad instead of lurking in the shadows ready to stabb him in the back.

One fans opinion.

Yes Skelton did well.




There is only one post I feel obliged to comment upon from either TOAST thread, the following: Unbelieveable...

How could a Cardinals fan make the bolded statement above, omitting Jake Plummer?


But, other than that egregious fallacy, Timm's post makes great sense!
 
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D-Dogg

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From the other board, a post by Carddan that I really liked:

In the last four years I have seen Kurt fail miserably, Matt have some success and get hurt, then Kurt played like a Hall of Famer and led us to two Division Championships and a Super Bowl appearance.

I can't predict the next four games, never mind the next four seasons.

It would be nice to simply ease off of Matt's back, sit back and find out what we have, rather than overanalyze every single tick and giggle we see.

Warner both went to the Super Bowl and sucked out loud on this team....same guy with the same talent around him...the difference was he sucked under Denny and excelled under Whis. Kurt Warner might not be walking through that damn door, but Coach Whis certainly is. I don't care if Duckjake is our QB...if Whis is fine with it then so am I.
 

Duckjake

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From the other board, a post by Carddan that I really liked:



It would be nice to simply ease off of Matt's back, sit back and find out what we have, rather than overanalyze every single tick and giggle we see.

Warner both went to the Super Bowl and sucked out loud on this team....same guy with the same talent around him...the difference was he sucked under Denny and excelled under Whis. Kurt Warner might not be walking through that damn door, but Coach Whis certainly is. I don't care if Duckjake is our QB...if Whis is fine with it then so am I.

If I'm playing QB they better bring a bunch of defibrillators and very large ice packs. Besides all my passes tend to hook.
 

slanidrac16

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Here is what we are use to.

Final score: 37-20
Warner 31 of 42 for 388 yds and 3 td's

Here is the more likely scenario this year.

Final score 24-20
Leinart 16 of 23 for 221yds and 1 td.

That means the defense needs to get better. As much as we would like to see the high powered offense we've come to know over the last couple of years continue, it doesn't appear likely. That's not saying Larry Fitzgerald will have be a forgotten man, but our running game will play a key role in opening up the routes and the field for this offense as opposed to the other way around. If the defense plays well, it will allow us to take the run to set up the pass approach. It the defense sucks, we are going to be in trouble because we cannot ask Matt to be Kurt Warner, especially at this point in time.

What this all means is there will be many poster ripping on Leinart throughout the year by comparing stats alone. There will be only one way to silence those critics. Matt will need to minimize mistakes and produce wins.

The Bengals made the playoffs and ran the ball more than any team in the league. Nobody is complaining about Carson Palmer.
The Jets were one game away from the Super Bowl and take a look at Sanchez's stats.

Bottom line...just win.
 

IAWarnerFan

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Here is what we are use to.

Final score: 37-20
Warner 31 of 42 for 388 yds and 3 td's

Here is the more likely scenario this year.

Final score 24-20
Leinart 16 of 23 for 221yds and 1 td.


That means the defense needs to get better. As much as we would like to see the high powered offense we've come to know over the last couple of years continue, it doesn't appear likely. That's not saying Larry Fitzgerald will have be a forgotten man, but our running game will play a key role in opening up the routes and the field for this offense as opposed to the other way around. If the defense plays well, it will allow us to take the run to set up the pass approach. It the defense sucks, we are going to be in trouble because we cannot ask Matt to be Kurt Warner, especially at this point in time.

What this all means is there will be many poster ripping on Leinart throughout the year by comparing stats alone. There will be only one way to silence those critics. Matt will need to minimize mistakes and produce wins.

The Bengals made the playoffs and ran the ball more than any team in the league. Nobody is complaining about Carson Palmer.
The Jets were one game away from the Super Bowl and take a look at Sanchez's stats.

Bottom line...just win.
:yeahthat:
If things go well for Leinart this year maybe at the end of the year he will be able to shoulder more of the load. Our running back combo is also very young and have yet to show that they can shoulder the load as well. There's plenty of reason to think this offense will falter, but we'll just have to see what we have when the regular season rolls around. The defense also is quite a bit different from last year and has yet to show what they can do together.

I disagree with you on the if the defense sucks statement to a point. If the defense does struggle, who's to say the running game doesn't get something going to take some of the pressure off of Leinart. I do agree with not asking Leinart to be KW. Different QB and the most we can ask is that he performs at his best when needed and that he can captain this offense to wins.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Huh? Mitch also wrote a 180 degrees post from the one above, which was the reason for this thread.




That's hardly one perspective and sticking to it. It is the exact opposite. Would have been interesting if he posted both together, but he posted them a day apart.

Exactly. It's borderline trolling with a very fine line.
 

AzStevenCal

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Huh? I thought it was clever. :shrug:

I did too. If you disregarded all of his earlier posts you'd have a difficult time figuring out which one was sarcasm and which one reflected his actual opinion. A reasonable person might be persuaded by either post.

Steve
 

Mitch

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It's all about rhetoric, my friends!

There are two sides to every coin.

As they say, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

It will be very interesting to see what really happens.

All I care about is what's best for the Arizona Cardinals and I think pretty much all of us feel the same way. It's our great common denominator. It's what makes us a team. We are all in this together and slugging it out together in hopes of a dream come true.:newcards:
 
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D-Dogg

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Apparently Toast has been looking great the last two practices. Some beautiful long balls perfectly placed plus quick, attacking decisions. 620 is raving this morning (not the norm).
 

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