The OFFICIAL off-season Suns plan thread!!

[panfolk]

hell- nash, stat,diaw and the number 5 pick for pierce and the number 2

I'm suggesting trading Marion's bloated contract, and Barbosa's small but worthwhile self. Neither one will help us win a title. Nash and Stat are too good to be traded for picks and Diaw has squat for trade value. Why would we need the #24 and #28 picks anyways when it's a good bet we'd just sell at least one of them. We get two rookies and a Euro-stash that fit our needs plus what else I mentioned and they get a playoff potential starting lineup (though they wouldn't win any series even if it's east coast). It's not as stupid as your retaliations are. Besides the point a 2 for 3 trade is minimum so a 4 for 5 isn't much different.

 

[Muggum]

We're not landing Oden or Durant without giving up Amare. And maybe not even then. Period. No GM is going to risk dealing one of those two. The downside is way too great.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm suggesting trading Marion's bloated contract, and Barbosa's small but worthwhile self. Neither one will help us win a title. Nash and Stat are too good to be traded for picks and Diaw has squat for trade value. Why would we need the #24 and #28 picks anyways when it's a good bet we'd just sell at least one of them. We get two rookies and a Euro-stash that fit our needs plus what else I mentioned and they get a playoff potential starting lineup (though they wouldn't win any series even if it's east coast). It's not as stupid as your retaliations are. Besides the point a 2 for 3 trade is minimum so a 4 for 5 isn't much different.

First trade Marion for what? For salary cap space or another star player? Because unless your trading him for another star player that doesn't get us any closer to a title either. Then what's the point?

Also, you cannot afford to trade Barbosa only because his contract is such a bargain. It's not that often you get a player to sign for under his market value. In the long run that only helps your salary cap situation not hurts it. If you trade Barbs and get a player lets say of equal value for market value then in terms of your salary cap that will really hurt.

 

[panfolk]

First trade Marion for what? For salary cap space or another star player? Because unless your trading him for another star player that doesn't get us any closer to a title either. Then what's the point?

Also, you cannot afford to trade Barbosa only because his contract is such a bargain. It's not that often you get a player to sign for under his market value. In the long run that only helps your salary cap situation not hurts it. If you trade Barbs and get a player lets say of equal value for market value then in terms of your salary cap that will really hurt.

The far-fetched notion was trading Marion for Durant and cap space, essentially.

Your point on Barbosa is a good one. I'm just frustrated with him I guess. He's too small to ever be an effective and versatile 2 and I really don't think he'll ever be a floor general that the team needs. He's good at what he does and I think he'll get better, I just don't have room for combo guards on any of my daydream rosters.

In case you missed it my earlier post has all the details.

 

[Gee!]

Only one thing must be done: Get another coach.

Then trade Marion for anything. With Amare, LB, and Diaw's development, we will have a better chance next season already, in particular if we get something with #4/5 pick.

im glad your not in charge..

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The far-fetched notion was trading Marion for Durant and cap space, essentially.

Your point on Barbosa is a good one. I'm just frustrated with him I guess. He's too small to ever be an effective and versatile 2 and I really don't think he'll ever be a floor general that the team needs. He's good at what he does and I think he'll get better, I just don't have room for combo guards on any of my daydream rosters.

In case you missed it my earlier post has all the details.

There is no way you can get the #2 pick in this draft for Marion, Barbosa, and two late round picks. If you had NBA 2K7 and turned the trade rejection off, the PS2 would seize with laughter when you clicked submit.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

Why don't they restructure KTs deal from 8 mill for 1...to 5mil per for 2 ? Saves RSarver 6 million smackers.

Then Deal James Jones (our best trade chip) for a second round pick to a team under the cap or w/ a trade exception. Since the tax is not levied until Feb 08...we have 1/2 a season to structure that. That would save an additional 3 mil. (Who knows, maybe we find a home for Banks too...but we have to play him to trade him.)


These two manuevers cut the tax down to 9 million and total budget to 83 mill....saving 12 million bucks....and keeps this team somewhat intact. (providing my math is correct)

 

[Ollie]

Why don't they restructure KTs deal from 8 mill for 1...to 5mil per for 2 ? Saves RSarver 6 million smackers.

Because they can't do that, teams over the cap are not able to renegotiate contracts (see the Shawn Kemp fiasco with the sonics). And players can't take a paycut when renegotiating contracts anyway.

They are only granted to extend his contract but that doesn't change the cap situation for next year, unfortunately...

 

[Ollie]

And by the way I think we should all wait 'til tuesday and the draft lottery before making any plans for the off-season. Draft order won't stay put, guys.

 

[dodie53]

i hope the nba gives the #4 or #5 pick to the suns..

 

[Ollie]

Well I guess everybody here like to see the Suns pick 4th, but all the "trade Marion for Durant" scenarios will not live long if that's not the case. Or if let's say Milwaukee, Memphis, Seattle or Minnesota pick 2nd.

That's too many "ifs" for me.

 

[elindholm]

Because they can't do that, teams over the cap are not able to renegotiate contracts (see the Shawn Kemp fiasco with the sonics). And players can't take a paycut when renegotiating contracts anyway.

Actually Thomas has a player option for next season, so I believe he could opt out and sign a new deal for less. Once he opts out he is an unrestricted free agent and can do whatever he wants. I don't think it would be against the rules for the Suns to have a replacement deal already lined up.

It probably won't happen, but it's a valid idea.

 

[Ollie]

Oops, you're right I totally forgot that KT actually had a player option for next year. But your theory sounds too dangerously Joe Smithianesque for me.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Actually Thomas has a player option for next season, so I believe he could opt out and sign a new deal for less. Once he opts out he is an unrestricted free agent and can do whatever he wants. I don't think it would be against the rules for the Suns to have a replacement deal already lined up.

It probably won't happen, but it's a valid idea.

Yes... it COULD happend, but its the NBA, would you just give up 9 million dollars to be nice? Certain players (ala peyton manning, tom Brady) do that sort of thing because A. They are superstars with a truck load of cash anyway, B. Its not like they are sacrificing money, they are just agreeing to get paid later. And thats in NFL, it doesn't work that way in the NBA, but its the same general idea.

KT knows the 9 million or so he makes next year will be more more than he could make in 3 years from here on out.

I still say we should work on some sort of extention for him though in the summer, Im thinking 3 years 10 million would be a good deal for both sides.

 

[elindholm]

Yes... it COULD happend, but its the NBA, would you just give up 9 million dollars to be nice?

I still say we should work on some sort of extention for him though in the summer, Im thinking 3 years 10 million would be a good deal for both sides.

Well right, that was the point of the original suggestion. Thomas would get more money over a longer period of time. Even so, I agree it's unlikely.

 

[Gaddabout]

1. Trade Marion and Barbosa and the 24th and 28th pick for the number 2 and 32 picks, Ratliff, Scalabrine, and West. We get a stud at #2, a future backup pointguard, a salary dump in Ratliff's expiring contract, and a decent shooting big as a towel waiving upgrade to Marks and Burke. Boston gets Rondo/Pierce/Marion/Jefferson/Perkins starting lineup (not half bad for the east), rids themselves of Scalabrine's contract, a pick in the first round and upgrades their bench with Barbosa (I'm just guessing that Rondo can distribute better than Barbosa so he'd get the start.)

I will give you this much on this trade proposal:

- Danny Ainge is probably the only GM wacky enough to trade out of the No. 2 spot, and he is a huge Marion fan.

- The Celtics will quickly discover that expiring contracts aren't as enticing as they once were and teams are wanting value in addition. They won't just be able to unload Ratliff as a salary dump.

I see several problems however:

- Ainge is NOT wacky enough to trade OUT of the lottery. Boston is going to hang him sooner or later, and trading out of this lottery would accelerate this inevitability.

- Ainge is not going to give up Delonte West, who represents one of his few good moments as GM, and bring in a tweener PG who can't run an offense and is a defensive liability.

2. Trade Banks to Charlotte with $$$ and any picks owed us (help me out here) and our own for the next year or two for Jake Voskuhl to make some salary coming in and a top-notch towel waiver with an expiring contract.

I suppose this is one way to unload Banks, but I'm still confused why Charlotte would want Banks, Banks' salary, or both for money and a few late-round picks. Jake Voskuhl in a Suns uniform (again) is just depressing to me, and I think he still has a little bit of value to the Bobcats. At the very least, he represents an expiring contract to them.

4. Pick up Matt Carroll on a cheap 2 year type contract.

OK, but I don't see Carroll as someone who's going to fit D'Antoni's rotation. No more than Piatkowski.

 

[AsUdUdE]

What about this...

A.) Suns stand pat with the team they have, with the #5 pick select Yi Jianlian.

B.) the suns trade #24, #29, and a 2nd for the 17th, select Acie Law, let Steve Nash teach him how to be a PG for 2-3 years, I think would set him up to be great.

Nash/Law
Bell/Barbosa
Marion/Diaw/JR
Yi/Diaw
Amare/KT

The team is deep, and we have a PG of the Future (who still has to be taught but can develop especially under Nash)

The reason behind Yi, with his expanding perimiter game, I think he would be a perfect compliment to Amare and Shawn. He could run the pick and Roll with Nash, he can get out and run on the fast break, and can provide rebounding help as well.

I think he is an interesting prospect, that would very well be the missing piece for the suns.

To me he is the 4th best prospect for the suns in the draft behind Brewer, and ofcourse Oden and Durant....

 

[Chris_Sanders]

If you have a "let's trade x for x" post in it the trade thread.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

Is reworking KT's deal as unlikely as trading Banks or Diaw or Marion?

All of these trades seem to require enormous cooperation with the opposition and none of them provide any immediate tax relief, unless they go to Charlotte or Atl or another team under the salary cap.

I dont know what our GM and staff has in mind, but they sure have painted themselves in a corner. I am afraid our only way out will come when Amare demands a trade...and we'll pack him off to Charlotte for a couple of hacks and a handful of draft picks. He didn't seem to cordial at the last team meeting. Oh thats right...he blew it off........

 

[BC867]

I am afraid our only way out will come when Amare demands a trade...and we'll pack him off to Charlotte for a couple of hacks and a handful of draft picks. He didn't seem to cordial at the last team meeting. Oh thats right...he blew it off........

Hopefully, Amare's desire for a championship will result in, not him leaving, but the GM/coaching philosphy to be open-minded about what it takes to win in the "2nd season".

It's obviously not what D'Antoni had in mind. The NBA has made that clear.

If tweaking the team is what the Suns powers that be have in mind, I'm with Amare.

 

[tobiazz]

All of the Suns' inner-conflicts seem to revolve around Amare. Here is more evidence of Amare's immaturity, from the Republic:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0519sunsnotes0519.html?&wired

Iavaroni was filling in for Mike D'Antoni on KTAR-AM's Talk to the Coach show Thursday when he explained his role in Amaré Stoudemire's and Boris Diaw's Game 4 bench departure: "We did say to the bench about 10 minutes earlier, 'If anything happens, do not leave the bench.' I asked Amaré about that and he said he didn't hear me say that. He did not understand what I was talking about. If I'm not a mature person or going to be a great coach, I would say, 'You know what, that's BS, Amaré.' But I'm not that way. I thought to myself, 'You know what, I could've gone down and made eye contact with every single guy and just asked them 'Do you understand?' and then I would've been covered and then perhaps it wouldn't have happened. I don't mind thinking that way."

Were the Suns expecting the Spurs to incite a fight?

 

[sharkman]

It's clear from his recent comments that Sarver believes this team is close to championship level (although because of Stern's stubborness we may never know for sure). It's also clear that the long term goal is to avoid the luxury tax...so there's little chance for the Suns taking on KG's $22mil contract...or O'Neal's for that matter ($64mil over the next 3 years). Any trades will have to reduce salary as a net result...

..but it doesn't have to be a trade with a team under the cap. Besides...the only team that will be significantly under will be Charlotte (Orlando, Washington, and Memphis will be just slightly under).

Salaries between teams over the cap have to be within 125% + $100K...so it's possible to lower payroll by shipping out $10mil and taking back only $8...or sending out $20mil while only taking back $15. While that wouldn't be a dramatic cut...if Kurt Thomas exercises his option, his salary will be off the books next year (where he may do a new contract for less $$$).

If Sarver has continued faith in D'Antoni (as it appears he does), then the plan will be to keep as much of the core intact as possible while trying to accomplish two goals:
1. Add some pieces that will help the team get over the hump
2. Lower payroll in doing so.

While this is a difficult task...it's not impossible.

1. Trade Boris Diaw, plus pick #29 to Charlotte...in return for cash (or a Big Mac). For Phoenix, it gets rid of $9 mil per year lowering the payroll from $76mil to a more reasonable $67 mil. Why would Charlotte do it? They are a team in desperate need of talent. Only 6 players are under contract for next year...Brezec and Wallace have player options and could make more on the open market. Diaw played very well last year in the absence of Amare...and is still a versatile player that can distribute the ball. Also, Charlotte has the number 8 pick (lottery dependent) and the number 22...with the #29 they could package them to move up to get a better player...(not to mention the fact that they have taken on the salary dump role for draft picks before).

2. Trade Marcus Banks and Eric Piatkowski to Atlanta...for Lorenzen Wright. Phoenix gets another shot blocker who only has one year on his contract...plus $2mil off the payroll (now at $65mil)...Atlanta desperately needs PG help and outside shooting...they get both cheaply.

The core stays intact, and when the number 4-6 pick plus the #24 are signed the team may be a couple of mil over the tax threshold...something Sarver could probably live with for a year...knowing KT's $8mil will be off the books next year. For those of you who absolutely want Marion gone...then trade him. If Iavaroni goes to Memphis, they'd love to have him...while many on this board are not impressed, I can assure you that the coaching staff loves his speed, rebounding, and defense.

 

[elindholm]

Iavaroni was filling in for Mike D'Antoni on KTAR-AM's Talk to the Coach show Thursday when he explained his role in Amaré Stoudemire's and Boris Diaw's Game 4 bench departure: "We did say to the bench about 10 minutes earlier, 'If anything happens, do not leave the bench.' I asked Amaré about that and he said he didn't hear me say that.

Uh, maybe because he was on the floor then, not the bench?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Shark:

I don't think other teams exist for the sole purpose of helping the Suns out. However, if we are going to deal with CHA, why not try to work a s&t for Wallace?

Anotehr note, Rashard Lewis is a UFA. Why not try to find a s&t for him packaged with Collison or Petro?

Our tradeable assets are Bell, Barbosa, Diaw, Jones, Banks and Marion (obviously varying degrees of tradeability). Would SEA s&t Lewis/Collison for Marion/Jones/Banks? Would CHA s&t Wallace for Diaw/#29?

 

[overseascardfan]

I say if we're going to make a trade, it should be for rebounding and defense.

If we are going to deal w/ CHA, why not go for Okafor. Marion, Barbosa, and 24 for Okafor and Felton would be nice. Or the 4 pick and Diaw for Okafor, CHA could end up w/ either Horford or Wright w/ the 4 who could replace Okafor.