The Official US Soccer thread

[Stout]

No Altidore...WTF??? Seriously, I'm not ashamed to start a 'sack coach Bradley' bandwagon. He's just not the coach to come close to taking us to the next level. I know we're all proud of a draw with Argentina, but to be fair we should have lost that game about 6-1. Howard was insane, so if we knock it down to just 'impressive' keeping, it would probably have been around 3-1. Remember, they should have been given a penalty kick on top of shredding our porous defense. A lot of people were impressed with our young defenders. I'm not astute enough to analyze individual defense I guess, because I scratched my head at it. Our defense was absolutely shredded and completely failed about seven or eight times. Maybe that's because they weren't playing well together or whatever, but our defense absolutely stunk.

On the bright side, Donovon and Adu really helped light up our offense. Dempsey was in form too. Johnson gives us nothing and squanders the few chances we get. We also pass far, far too slow and are pondorous in the buildup on offense. Yes, I'm thrilled we managed a draw, but with the way our defense played, we'll generally lose such games, and lose them big.

 

[cardfaninfl]

A lot of people were impressed with our young defenders. I'm not astute enough to analyze individual defense I guess, because I scratched my head at it. Our defense was absolutely shredded and completely failed about seven or eight times. Maybe that's because they weren't playing well together or whatever, but our defense absolutely stunk.

Not to argue or minimize your points...but think of it using a football example. You are playing a team that passes the football alot, like the Patriots. Your team has no pass rush and Brady has all day to stand in the pocket. Your team allows a ton of passing yards, but holds New England scorless. It is easy to argue your defensive backs did a very good job.

Argentina controlled possesion for most of the game which creates opportunities. Howard should get all the praise for holding Argentina scoreless, however the center backs and Cherundalo do deserve credit. The reason I don't include Pearse is because in Bradley's system, one or both of the outside backs are an important part of the attack. Pearse did a (surprise to me) great job in his role. As you mentioned, the MNT just does not have a center midfield that can consistently string passes together, allowing more opportunities to their opposition.

The Argentines did have a number of opportunities that made me cringe...but, IMO, that is not the back line's fault.

OK, that football example sounded alot better in my head...

 

[Zeno]

I agree with you, but I don't think Adu starts the Away leg but he will start the Home leg.... he is still trying to bring him along slowly... not sure what is going on with Jozy though...

Not alot of surprises in that lineup except for Ching.. I know they think he is the next coming of McBride because he can head the ball, but he just doesn't have the heart let alone the skill.....

The first leg is the home leg. Hopefully we run the score up in the home leg and it will embolden Bradley to introduce players who need a chance to play in the away leg. Namely Cooper, to be honest I am not sure Cooper is the answer with Altidore up front but I know that Ching & Wolff aren't the answer and Johnson is no more than a late sub unless he has some serious tunaround in confidence and ability.

I know we had all the Ching comparisons but Ching has 5 goals in 26 caps...those aren't striker numbers. I just can't understand it, he is no better than Twellman and it seems USSF has at least come to their senses with that one.

 

[Zeno]

Not to argue or minimize your points...but think of it using a football example. You are playing a team that passes the football alot, like the Patriots. Your team has no pass rush and Brady has all day to stand in the pocket. Your team allows a ton of passing yards, but holds New England scorless. It is easy to argue your defensive backs did a very good job.

Argentina controlled possesion for most of the game which creates opportunities. Howard should get all the praise for holding Argentina scoreless, however the center backs and Cherundalo do deserve credit. The reason I don't include Pearse is because in Bradley's system, one or both of the outside backs are an important part of the attack. Pearse did a (surprise to me) great job in his role. As you mentioned, the MNT just does not have a center midfield that can consistently string passes together, allowing more opportunities to their opposition.

The Argentines did have a number of opportunities that made me cringe...but, IMO, that is not the back line's fault.

OK, that football example sounded alot better in my head...

Good analogy. While our defense did not play a flawless game they played a solid game. Plus show me a defense Aguero & Messi don't shred.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm sorry, but while I still think Bradley isn't a great coach, we DID play a great game against Argentina.

I'm all for replacing him, but come on. You gotta give credit where it's due, regardless of who the coach is.

 

[Stout]

I'm sorry, but while I still think Bradley isn't a great coach, we DID play a great game against Argentina.

I'm all for replacing him, but come on. You gotta give credit where it's due, regardless of who the coach is.

The funny thing is, I came on meaning to write a positive post, but the more I thought about it, the more shortfalls I thought of.

 

[Stout]

Good analogy. While our defense did not play a flawless game they played a solid game. Plus show me a defense Aguero & Messi don't shred.

Absolutely and completely wrong. Maybe they had some good individual efforts, but I can unquestioningly say our defense was far from solid. You cannot, simply cannot allow three, four, five balls completely through to wide-open strikers for one-on-one situatios with the keeper. When that happens, I think you should shelve any mention of a solid game. Our keeper had a solid game, yes; our defense did not.

Sure, Messi in particular likes to shred a defense. Fact is, I only saw him do it once on his own with individual effort, and that wasn't even close to their best scoring chance. Our defense was shredded by not being able to stop through balls on the ground, and not stepping up to create offsides. They were far too slow to recognize these situations and even slower to react.

 

[Stout]

Not to argue or minimize your points...but think of it using a football example. You are playing a team that passes the football alot, like the Patriots. Your team has no pass rush and Brady has all day to stand in the pocket. Your team allows a ton of passing yards, but holds New England scorless. It is easy to argue your defensive backs did a very good job.

Argentina controlled possesion for most of the game which creates opportunities. Howard should get all the praise for holding Argentina scoreless, however the center backs and Cherundalo do deserve credit. The reason I don't include Pearse is because in Bradley's system, one or both of the outside backs are an important part of the attack. Pearse did a (surprise to me) great job in his role. As you mentioned, the MNT just does not have a center midfield that can consistently string passes together, allowing more opportunities to their opposition.

The Argentines did have a number of opportunities that made me cringe...but, IMO, that is not the back line's fault.

OK, that football example sounded alot better in my head...

Yeah, that football example was a bad one

IMO, those center backs and Cherundalo do not deserve credit. They constanly allowed easy and uncontested through passes to give up direct and free shots at the keeper and the goal. Good defenses don't do that very often, and even average ones don't let them through at the pace we did. A simple offsides trap would have absolutely killed that aspect of their game. Our defense was either too stupid, too unskilled, or too undisciplined to do that. However you slice it, it doesn't add up to a good effort. I mean, we're talking five or six clear, open waltzes towards the net; that ain't good or acceptable, no matter how otherworldly your keeper plays.

 

[Zeno]

Absolutely and completely wrong. Maybe they had some good individual efforts, but I can unquestioningly say our defense was far from solid. You cannot, simply cannot allow three, four, five balls completely through to wide-open strikers for one-on-one situatios with the keeper. When that happens, I think you should shelve any mention of a solid game. Our keeper had a solid game, yes; our defense did not.

Sure, Messi in particular likes to shred a defense. Fact is, I only saw him do it once on his own with individual effort, and that wasn't even close to their best scoring chance. Our defense was shredded by not being able to stop through balls on the ground, and not stepping up to create offsides. They were far too slow to recognize these situations and even slower to react.

Every soccer expert in the country would disagree with you because aside from Howard(who was by far the highest rated player--not even close) our highest rated players across the board were Pearce, Onyewu and Califf and I fully agree. Pearce, Onyewu and Califf all played good games, Cherundolo was nothing more than average. Califf was a complete surprise to me.

So simply put you are wrong

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah, that football example was a bad one

IMO, those center backs and Cherundalo do not deserve credit. They constanly allowed easy and uncontested through passes to give up direct and free shots at the keeper and the goal. Good defenses don't do that very often, and even average ones don't let them through at the pace we did. A simple offsides trap would have absolutely killed that aspect of their game. Our defense was either too stupid, too unskilled, or too undisciplined to do that. However you slice it, it doesn't add up to a good effort. I mean, we're talking five or six clear, open waltzes towards the net; that ain't good or acceptable, no matter how otherworldly your keeper plays.

Stout, it wasn't Canada the US was playing. It was Argentina. Argentina would do the same thing against any team save Brazil in the world. If it was Belgium, then yes, we'd say the defense was pretty bad. But Argentina? At this point, this is THE best team we could possibly face in the entire world. I just can't believe you don't take that into account.

 

[Stout]

Every soccer expert in the country would disagree with you because aside from Howard(who was by far the highest rated player--not even close) our highest rated players across the board were Pearce, Onyewu and Califf and I fully agree. Pearce, Onyewu and Califf all played good games, Cherundolo was nothing more than average. Califf was a complete surprise to me.

So simply put you are wrong

Like I said, we may have had great individual efforts, and the experts may agree on that; I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to break it down that far. I'm not talking about individual efforts, because unless it's completely 1-1, defense isn't an individual effort, but a team effort. And, as a unit, our defense stunk.

Like I said, until you can tell me why a team can allow somewhere in the realm of 6 completely undefended through balls and still be solid, then I'll remain right.

 

[Stout]

Stout, it wasn't Canada the US was playing. It was Argentina. Argentina would do the same thing against any team save Brazil in the world. If it was Belgium, then yes, we'd say the defense was pretty bad. But Argentina? At this point, this is THE best team we could possibly face in the entire world. I just can't believe you don't take that into account.

I absolutely agree with your point about Argentina. That's why I'm not upset at that one time that Messi abused a few defenders before finally being stopped; he's Messi and that'll happen. I'm not talking individual defense, but team defense.

Again, yes, it's Argentina, so we should expect the best precision and timining perhaps in the world. Every team's defense has the great equalizer to that kind of play: the offsides trap. You execute that well, and you can stymie that style of attack. Our defenders were unable to execute that at all as a unit, and that's why we gave up so many easy chances. Again, lucky we had Howard.

 

[cardfaninfl]

Every team's defense has the great equalizer to that kind of play: the offsides trap. You execute that well, and you can stymie that style of attack. Our defenders were unable to execute that at all as a unit, and that's why we gave up so many easy chances. Again, lucky we had Howard.

I'm getting a better idea where you are coming from. You are absolutely right...assuming the offside trap is the "Holy Grail" of defensive tactics. Its not.

Players spend entire practise sessions timeing their runs to take advantage of a sloppy or over-aggressive trap. Getting 2, 3 or sometimes more players to move in perfect unison looks great when it works, and horrible when it fails.

I can bash Bradley on a number of decisions, but playing a marking or bend-but-don't-break defense was a smart move, IMO. Bocanegra was dealing with family issues and Califf did not have a lot of experience with ***** and Steve, critical in executing a trap. Even if Carlos plays, I would hesitate to use an all-or-nothing tactic, constantly, against this class of a team.

I can honestly understand you disagreeing, but now I think your arguement is against Bradley's system, not the performance on the pitch.

 

[Chaplin]

I absolutely agree with your point about Argentina. That's why I'm not upset at that one time that Messi abused a few defenders before finally being stopped; he's Messi and that'll happen. I'm not talking individual defense, but team defense.

Again, yes, it's Argentina, so we should expect the best precision and timining perhaps in the world. Every team's defense has the great equalizer to that kind of play: the offsides trap. You execute that well, and you can stymie that style of attack. Our defenders were unable to execute that at all as a unit, and that's why we gave up so many easy chances. Again, lucky we had Howard.

The crux of your argument I agree with. Yes, we are not great defensively. That's a failing of my MLS team as well, as we all know. But facts are facts and Argentina didn't score on us. A lot of that is Tim Howard's all-world goalkeeping, but there was some good stuff to build on with our defense.

 

[Stout]

The crux of your argument I agree with. Yes, we are not great defensively. That's a failing of my MLS team as well, as we all know. But facts are facts and Argentina didn't score on us. A lot of that is Tim Howard's all-world goalkeeping, but there was some good stuff to build on with our defense.

 

[Stout]

I'm getting a better idea where you are coming from. You are absolutely right...assuming the offside trap is the "Holy Grail" of defensive tactics. Its not.

Players spend entire practise sessions timeing their runs to take advantage of a sloppy or over-aggressive trap. Getting 2, 3 or sometimes more players to move in perfect unison looks great when it works, and horrible when it fails.

I can bash Bradley on a number of decisions, but playing a marking or bend-but-don't-break defense was a smart move, IMO. Bocanegra was dealing with family issues and Califf did not have a lot of experience with ***** and Steve, critical in executing a trap. Even if Carlos plays, I would hesitate to use an all-or-nothing tactic, constantly, against this class of a team.

I can honestly understand you disagreeing, but now I think your arguement is against Bradley's system, not the performance on the pitch.

It certainly isn't the Holy Grail of defensive tactics, but when a team keeps feeding through balls past you on timing runs you'd bloody well be able to execute it.

I hope Bradley was trying to use this on defense, because he'd be a pretty sad coach indeed (which he is) if he couldn't recognize the deficiency and make in-game adjustments. It wasn't a bend but don't break defense...it was a break and pray that Howard bails you out defense. Thankfully he did, but our defense was porous.

 

[Zeno]

Further proof Bob Bradley is not an Int'l coach...

The key for the U.S. will be its ability to find a striker to mesh with an improving group of attackers that includes Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey and DeMarcus Beasley.

Bradley seemed to imply in a conference call on Thursday that Brian Ching of Major League Soccer's back-to-back defending champion Houston Dynamo could be that striker.

"We are excited to have Brian Ching," he said. "I think that he's a different kind of forward for us, a player that is strong, can hold the ball, can bring other people into play. I thought that he had a good game for us against Poland [on March 26 in a 3-0 U.S. win] and we are pleased to have him back in our team [after missing the last three friendlies, all losses]."

The only way I can see him having a good game against Poland is if his instructions from the coaches were 1) don't create any goal scoring chances 2) be as invisible as possible on the field 3) if you do happen to get a wide open shot on goal please send it straight in to the goalkeepers gut 4) demonstrate no game speed at all and 5) make sure Eddie Johnson looks competent. If those were his instructions he did a great job. Seriously you'd be reaching to find a worse player from that game, someone who had less of an impact.

Bradley is dooming us to another disappointing WC. I don't expect to win but if we don't get out of group play heads should roll at USSF starting with Gulati and right on down (Bradley, Nowak etc).

Cooper, Rogers & Alvarez deserve an invite to camp at some point. Ching & Johnson just don't produce and don't even get me started with Josh Wolff. This coach baffles me sometimes.

 

[Zeno]

Starting lineup...

18-Brad Guzan; 6-Steve Cherundolo, 5-Oguchi Onyewu, 3-Carlos Bocanegra, 15-Heath Pearce; 10-Landon Donovan, 12-Michael Bradley, 4-Pablo Mastroeni, 17-DaMarcus Beasley; 11-Brian Ching, 8-Clint Dempsey

Of course Coach Bradley doesn't start Adu and continues to run out his son, a little surprised he didn't stick with Johnson since he seems like his first choice at forward.

We better see a minimum 5 goals from the US today.

 

[Zeno]

3-0 at half. Dempsey, Bradley & Ching scored...although Ching gets credit for Mastroenis shot because it deflected off his back.

 

[Zeno]

8-0, Dempsey 2, Ching 2, Donovan 1, an Own Goal, Bradley 1 and Johnson with 1.

I felt bad for Barbados, they were terribly outclassed...not even close in talent.

In other news Mexico was only able to beat Belize 2-0

 

[Stout]

Man, I am so irked!!! I have this ancient VCR I have to use for just a little while longer, and it only works on timer sometimes. Well, guess what it didn't record? Argh! I knew we'd crush them, but I wanted to see if we were playing well, or if they were just that bad. How did each of our guys look?

 

[azsouthendzone]

Man, I am so irked!!! I have this ancient VCR I have to use for just a little while longer, and it only works on timer sometimes. Well, guess what it didn't record? Argh! I knew we'd crush them, but I wanted to see if we were playing well, or if they were just that bad. How did each of our guys look?

Hard to tell. The game was very similar to if NAU played the Cardinals.

 

[Stout]

Hard to tell. The game was very similar to if NAU played the Cardinals.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Oh well. Might not have proven anything with the game, but I think this was a blowout much needed for our team's psychological health if anything.

 

[Zeno]

Nobody stood out as playing poorly. Might be the first time I've ever seen the ESPN crew rate pretty much the entire US team as 7's & 8's. I just don't think anything can really be taken from it because Barbados is so poor.

My hope is Bradley calls in most of the U-23's for the away leg with the exception of players over that age who haven't had a lot of playing time so far, guys like Califf, Demerit & Cooper. Let Guzan play again too to help him get his work permit in the UK. What better time to get some of these guys National team caps than a meaningless away match? Maybe it'll be a chance to get Subotic a cap to make up his mind to choose the US over Serbia.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Adu could be headed to Serie A club Genoa on a loan.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/soccer/06/17/adu.genoa/index.html