The Pitch play to Ingram

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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I’ll say it again. For a team that lines up in shotgun 90% of the time, this isn’t a simple play to execute. As you can see McSorely fakes to his right to Conner on the handoff. Then he must flip the ball the opposite direction in the same motion to a running back that is sprinting toward the sweep. This is not an elementary play, it’s not a play we’ve ever ran in a game situation, and even if he catches it there’s 2 defenders waiting to tackle him for a loss. It’s not a direct pitch to the running back that 2 random people could execute at the highest level of competition. It’s a terrible play, worse execution, and in typical Kliff fashion gets cute and it’s costs us.

Yeah anyone who thinks that play wasn’t well-defensed and was going to convert the third down must think ingram has all pro potential. It was going nowhere.

 

[Jetstream Green]

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I’ll say it again. For a team that lines up in shotgun 90% of the time, this isn’t a simple play to execute. As you can see McSorely fakes to his right to Conner on the handoff. Then he must flip the ball the opposite direction in the same motion to a running back that is sprinting toward the sweep. This is not an elementary play, it’s not a play we’ve ever ran in a game situation, and even if he catches it there’s 2 defenders waiting to tackle him for a loss. It’s not a direct pitch to the running back that 2 random people could execute at the highest level of competition. It’s a terrible play, worse execution, and in typical Kliff fashion gets cute and it’s costs us.

Those two defenders you mentioned would have been one left behind the play and the other blocked if the pitch would have been done right and the player did not stop for the snafu, and who knows how many more yards since we had a block on the far edge. I get where you are coming from AZMN and see the reasons why you and others do not like the play call (heck, this team has problems just snapping the dang ball) but for me if you cannot run a basic football play like that and have to live in a bubble as coach calling a play like that, you are not going to win. That fake punt which worked was far more difficult for the players involved to accomplish than expecting a QB to pitch and a back to catch a pitch which is a fundamental skill for their positions

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To say they have “never” done this before a major stretch. I’d be willing to wager, they’ve practiced this many times over and it is in the arsenal of every high school football playbook I’ve seen.

Let’s just all agree it was not executed top to bottom. Play shouldn’t have been called but when it was, players need to execute.

After watching replays, I’m not sure they would have gained the first down and the right play was the dive by Conner.

All of this is right

 

[Jetstream Green]

Yeah anyone who thinks that play wasn’t well-defensed and was going to convert the third down must think ingram has all pro potential. It was going nowhere.

I saw him ahead of the pursuit and the play blocked well on the edge. I guess we will not really know unless the pitch was fluid and he got the ball, but this is how much this season just simply sucks, we are discussing a pitch, not a pass down the seam or a ball thrown on a wrong shoulder of a WR

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Those two defenders you mentioned would have been one left behind the play and the other blocked if the pitch would have been done right and the player did not stop for the snafu, and who knows how many more yards since we had a block on the far edge. I get where you are coming from AZMN and see the reasons why you and others do not like the play call (heck, this team has problems just snapping the dang ball) but for me if you cannot run a basic football play like that and have to live in a bubble as coach calling a play like that, you are not going to win. That fake punt which worked was far more difficult for the players involved to accomplish than expecting a QB to pitch and a back to catch a pitch which is a fundamental skill for their positions

Can’t disagree with you more. The outside contain has stood up his blocker and wasn’t losing ground. The inside guy had leverage and was unblocked and 54 was headed to cut off any path ingram may have had. That play was dead in the water.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I saw him ahead of the pursuit and the play blocked well on the edge. I guess we will not really know unless the pitch was fluid and he got the ball, but this is how much this season just simply sucks, we are discussing a pitch, not a pass down the seam or a ball thrown to wrong shoulder of a WR

Lol. So true. Yeesh.

 

[Jetstream Green]

All of this is right

True, we just need to end the discussion here for a season where this franchise can't seem do anything right. Gosh, I wanted them to beat Tampa so bad after seeing how bad the GOAT has regressed and why he needs to retire because he is tarnishing his greatness right now. On the television, I heard him shout "God d@mn !t" in frustration when his OL jumped offsides during the one snap, he and that team is falling apart

 

[Harry]

I agree that is not a simple pitch. I agree Ingram is not an NFL level player. He’s shown little to indicate he‘s even an average player. Of course he should have caught it, but it was a lousy toss. Even if he catches it his momentum is not towards the line. I’ll put most of it on Kingsbury. You don’t bring a guy in cold to take a lateral. Most teams run one of those every three games or so. It’s not routine. I’m betting Ingram had butterflies, plus as a power back he likely didn’t even get those tosses in college. Of course it’s also a good observation this QB was making his first start. Finally how could this be their best short yardage play? The Cards can’t get rid of Kingsbury soon enough. It’s sad when Denver is more decisive. Of course, virtually every team has a better history than the Cards.

 

[AZfaninMN]

To say they have “never” done this before a major stretch. I’d be willing to wager, they’ve practiced this many times over and it is in the arsenal of every high school football playbook I’ve seen.

Let’s just all agree it was not executed top to bottom. Play shouldn’t have been called but when it was, players need to execute.

After watching replays, I’m not sure they would have gained the first down and the right play was the dive by Conner.

Never was a bit of a stretch, yes, a 3rd string QB and backup running back together may have not practiced that play other than this week though. If colt or Kyler were the QB, I’d have no problem trying something similar to that. With your third string QB it has to be a read option, Conner up the middle, or QB sneak. I do agree with everything you said though. It’s a play ran at every level of competition and needs to be executed. I just didn’t like it with the personnel we had playing.

 

[kerouac9]

Bill Parcells has a section in his lead ship book about how when he was a high school QB he audibled to a pitch in the red zone that was fumbled and they lost the game.

He said that he tells his coaches that if he calls a pitch in a short-yardage situation he’s temporarily lost his mind and should be overruled.

Just get the first down. Kliff is overwhelmed and must go.

 

[AZfaninMN]

Those two defenders you mentioned would have been one left behind the play and the other blocked if the pitch would have been done right and the player did not stop for the snafu, and who knows how many more yards since we had a block on the far edge. I get where you are coming from AZMN and see the reasons why you and others do not like the play call (heck, this team has problems just snapping the dang ball) but for me if you cannot run a basic football play like that and have to live in a bubble as coach calling a play like that, you are not going to win. That fake punt which worked was far more difficult for the players involved to accomplish than expecting a QB to pitch and a back to catch a pitch which is a fundamental skill for their positions

I think it would’ve taken a good pitch and a broken tackle to get the first.

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Screenshots don’t tell the whole story, but David is the unblocked player. He’s about as good a tackler as the NFL has and has leverage over Ingram right now.

The next screenshot is after the fumble and changes the angle of everyone’s pursuit, but the defender circled has shed his block and in position to make a tackle.

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Ingram isn’t a burner, so I think he would have to beat the circle defender to the edge(doable), then shed the tackle or plow through David for a first down. Not impossible, but Ingram hasn’t shown to do any of that in his limited touches.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it would’ve taken a good pitch and a broken tackle to get the first.

You must be registered for see images attach

Screenshots don’t tell the whole story, but David is the unblocked player. He’s about as good a tackler as the NFL has and has leverage over Ingram right now.

The next screenshot is after the fumble and changes the angle of everyone’s pursuit, but the defender circled has shed his block and in position to make a tackle.

You must be registered for see images attach

Ingram isn’t a burner, so I think he would have to beat the circle defender to the edge(doable), then shed the tackle or plow through David for a first down. Not impossible, but Ingram hasn’t shown to do any of that in his limited touches.

If you watch in real time 54 is across the line to gain with the right angle and no impediment to make the playoffs and there’s a guy there for the cutback too. That play was “strategically ******.”

 

[AZfaninMN]

I think it would’ve taken a good pitch and a broken tackle to get the first.

You must be registered for see images attach

Screenshots don’t tell the whole story, but David is the unblocked player. He’s about as good a tackler as the NFL has and has leverage over Ingram right now.

The next screenshot is after the fumble and changes the angle of everyone’s pursuit, but the defender circled has shed his block and in position to make a tackle.

You must be registered for see images attach

Ingram isn’t a burner, so I think he would have to beat the circle defender to the edge(doable), then shed the tackle or plow through David for a first down. Not impossible, but Ingram hasn’t shown to do any of that in his limited touches.

Also something else that’s pretty pathetic is on 3rd and 1, look at our lack of “push” to gain a yard. I count 1 player past the line to gain and that’s the wr at the bottom of the screen.

 

[Harry]

I don’t care if it would have worked; it didn’t. It was a bad call. That sheet Kingsbury clings to should have ranked the short yardage plays. I’d love to know where that play is on the list.

 

[Jetstream Green]

If you watch in real time 54 is across the line to gain with the right angle and no impediment to make the playoffs and there’s a guy there for the cutback too. That play was “strategically ******.”

No. no. no, the proper wording is 'schematically !@#$@@'- sincerely Kyler Murray

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No. no. no, the proper wording is 'schematically !@#$@@'- sincerely Kyler Murray

That’s what I was seeking. Thank you.

 

[BritCard]

8

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I’ll say it again. For a team that lines up in shotgun 90% of the time, this isn’t a simple play to execute. As you can see McSorely fakes to his right to Conner on the handoff. Then he must flip the ball the opposite direction in the same motion to a running back that is sprinting toward the sweep. This is not an elementary play, it’s not a play we’ve ever ran in a game situation, and even if he catches it there’s 2 defenders waiting to tackle him for a loss. It’s not a direct pitch to the running back that 2 random people could execute at the highest level of competition. It’s a terrible play, worse execution, and in typical Kliff fashion gets cute and it’s costs us.

If he catches that with a head of steam, space and a blocker he gets the yard.

It was just a bad pitch by McSorley. It wasn't difficult. Just poorly executed.

 

[Dayman]

If Kliff called that play in the first quarter, it wouldn't have been an issue. But to call a play with so many variables at such a crucial time in the game simply isn't good situational football. Especially when you have one of the best short yardage backs in the league sitting on the sidelines.

 

[AZfaninMN]

8

If he catches that with a head of steam, space and a blocker he gets the yard.

It was just a bad pitch by McSorley. It wasn't difficult. Just poorly executed.

Poor execution doesn’t excuse a poor playcall.

 

[daves]

I’m betting Ingram had butterflies, plus as a power back he likely didn’t even get those tosses in college.

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Looks as though he didn't have any butterflies when handling these pitches?

...dave

 

[PJ1]

Poor execution doesn’t excuse a poor playcall.

Nor does it make it a bad playcall.

 

[AZfaninMN]

Nor does it make it a bad playcall.

In the video we can clearly see it’s bad playcall. It ends in a turnover. If not there’s 2 defenders there to stop Ingram short of the first down. We’re paying Conner a lump sum to run the football. His best attribute is falling forward getting the tough yard. Yet, we got cute and ignored him for a rookie 5th round pick who plays 3 snaps a game.

 

[PJ1]

In the video we can clearly see it’s bad playcall. It ends in a turnover. If not there’s 2 defenders there to stop Ingram short of the first down. We’re paying Conner a lump sum to run the football. His best attribute is falling forward getting the tough yard. Yet, we got cute and ignored him for a rookie 5th round pick who plays 3 snaps a game.

And when Conner gets stuffed with a predictable play you bitch about that call.

 

[Harry]

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Looks as though he didn't have any butterflies when handling these pitches?

...dave

Good fine. Does he look like that back now? I don’t see anything like that level of agility or speed.

 

[AZfaninMN]

And when Conner gets stuffed with a predictable play you bitch about that call.

If you’ve read the thread I’ve clearly stated that’s a play I would’ve ran. I’m not bitching about anything. I’m contributing to a topic brought up on a message board.