The Rays, the Cardinals, and being a real fan

[Ed Burmila]

I'm just done congratulating my best friend, a Rays fan from day one, on the success of his team. I'm very happy for the 9,000 hardcore Rays fans but find their exceptionally large contingent of bandwagon-jumpers pretty annoying. Half that crowd looks like they forgot to rip the tags off their new jerseys.

It's made me think a lot about what it would be like if the Cards made it to the top - you know what, after 25 losing seasons (OK, two 8-8 seasons and one playoff appearance mixed in) following every snap of every game, I feel like I wouldn't want to share the experience with the million Arizonans who would "realize" at the last minute that they love the Cardinals.

I know that's the nature of sports, but we all know that the Cards' base of hard-core fans is small. There are, what, a few thousand of us? We may be pessimists or optimists, we may think one another are jackasses sometimes (or all the time), and some of us have been at it for longer than others. But WHEN this team finally makes it to the top, I feel like....like we've "earned it" more and we should have the victory to ourselves. I know that's ridiculous, but I think it would be more awesome to win the Super Bowl with 25,000 fans in the crowd - the real fans - rather than a big crowd of people who didn't gut out the awful years like the rest of us did.

In other words, the Cards should require fans to present evidence of having been to one Josh McCown-era game before allowing them to buy playoff tickets. That would exclude me, but since I attended a game where our starting QB was Jim Frickin' McMahon I think I grandfather in.

 

[Dback Jon]

Ed, there are far more hard-core Cardinal fans than you think. Many may not have season tickets, but they are out there.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Maybe it's hard to tell as an out-of-towner, but since the team struggled to crack 30,000 tickets sold in a lot of seasons (1/3 of those being out-of-town fans) it's safe to say the "base" isn't huge. Tiny in comparison to other NFL teams that have been around for 90 years.

 

[HeavyB3]

Maybe it's hard to tell as an out-of-towner, but since the team struggled to crack 30,000 tickets sold in a lot of seasons (1/3 of those being out-of-town fans) it's safe to say the "base" isn't huge. Tiny in comparison to other NFL teams that have been around for 90 years.

Well I've had season tickets since McCown was QB, so I'm safe.

 

[Bert]

<----- Season tix since 93'!!!!!


GO CARDINALS!!!!

 

[Ed Burmila]

Well, duh, I assumed everyone on here automatically counts as hardcore. You wouldn't be here otherwise.

 

[Dback Jon]

I made it to a game or two a year until I moved to TN, starting in 1988. There are many more like me that are hardcore fans, but can't afford or make many games.

 

[Duckjake]

The Cards are an exception to the hard core fan rule.

The franchise had 100's of thousands of fans and ran them all off by putting a terrible product on display in one of the worst places in the country to play day games before late October or November.

Home attendance in 1988 was over 470,000. By 2003 that number was 288,499

Being a hard core fan is one thing. The Cards asked their customer base to be hard boiled fans instead.

So anyone who has since jumped BACK on the bandwagon is welcome in my book.

 

[phillycard]

My problem is that the Rays were good ALL YEAR! Even after the break when it was obvious they were for real, I still continued to see that dump of a stadium half full. I have absolutely no prob with the Rays as a team, they scare me tremendously. But if that sham of a fan base wins a chip before we do, I will drink myself into a coma. Real talk.

As far as the Cards, we have suffered enough, plus the stadium is now full. We do have a fanbase so to speak.

 

[ajcardfan]

The same thing happened when the Dbacks went to the World Series. All of the sudden, people who couldn't have named five guys on the squad a month before were partying like they had sat through every pitch in the team's history. But, you know what? Some of those people have stuck around and become pretty good DBacks fans.

Yes, it would be a little annoying if I saw my next door neighbor at the NFC championship game waving a big foam finger. But, it'd be better than a fan for the other team. And, if he was back next season, I'd be glad to have him. Remember, the Red Sox routinely had far more fans at the Trop than the Rays did. It's one reason they've had so many fights, it pissed the Rays off. So, I bet they were glad those bandwagon jumpers were there tonight.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Good thoughts, Ed.

Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast.

I will gladly take a bunch of bandwagon jumpers - that means good things are happening.

Funny thing about the Rays, I am a Sox fan, and even today after them beating us, I just can't dislike them. I think many will feel the same about the Cards.

 

[TruColor]

I've been a Cardinals fanatic since 1969. I have never lived where the Cardinals play. So therefore, I have never been a season ticket holder.

My wife and I hope to move to Arizona some day...no doubt that we will try to get season tickets then!

(Oh - and I jumped on the (Devil) Rays bandwagon back in 2002...I just have this thing for teams who no one else likes!)

 

[chicards11]

eh.....

Ive been a fan since the lomax era and ill tell you one thing.......there are not alot of Cardinal fans. I am an out of towner....I have gone to 3 games a years since 94 and can honestly say that up until the new stadium the cards had the slimmest "fanbase" in football.....probably in sports.

Everyone in AZ is a transplant, whether you like to admit it or not and those are just about terrible conditions for building team support. But if you WIN then fans come out in droves.......BELIEVE ME, YOU WANT THIS. So please do not tell me all this yada yada about bandwagon fans because the Cardinals need those fans to remain successful and to continue to sell out that stadium. Thats why they had to build a new stadium, change their uniforms, bring in Edge/Denny Green , start up add campaigns like "we do this together", etc. We are not at liberty to throw stones at bandwagon fans so please stop. This team is trying (and succeeding) to build its own identity.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

When they win it all, it will all the more sweeter. As a life-long fan, watching the White Sox win it all in 2005 was as good as it gets. I attended game 2 in Chicago and it is easily the best sporting event i have been to. If the Cards make the Super Bowl, i will definitely be there and hope it's comparable. I doubt that it will be only because game 2 was a home game for the Sox.I'm sure there would be more fans of the opponent than the Cards. But it will be nice to compare.

 

[Mulli]

eh.....

Ive been a fan since the lomax era and ill tell you one thing.......there are not alot of Cardinal fans. I am an out of towner....I have gone to 3 games a years since 94 and can honestly say that up until the new stadium the cards had the slimmest "fanbase" in football.....probably in sports.

Everyone in AZ is a transplant, whether you like to admit it or not and those are just about terrible conditions for building team support. But if you WIN then fans come out in droves.......BELIEVE ME, YOU WANT THIS. So please do not tell me all this yada yada about bandwagon fans because the Cardinals need those fans to remain successful and to continue to sell out that stadium. Thats why they had to build a new stadium, change their uniforms, bring in Edge/Denny Green , start up add campaigns like "we do this together", etc. We are not at liberty to throw stones at bandwagon fans so please stop. This team is trying (and succeeding) to build its own identity.

If you were born in AZ, how are you a transplant?

Agree with the rest though.

 

[conraddobler]

The Cardinals are a unique thing.

Very old franchise, very limited success even going back a long time, started in Chicago, moved to St. Louis and now in AZ.

There are a lot of closet Cardinal fans in St. Louis.

Heck there are even still fans from Chicago days.

The Cubs are the only compareable team in all of sports, odd they'd be from Chicago too.

Boston used to claim they were in that club but several years they were really good just couldn't win the big games until they beat the Cardinals... ironic isn't it?

For shear loveable ineptitude you have the Cubs and the Cardinals, one in baseball one in football.

Out of those two only the Cardinals have been that utterly bad that long, so we hold the crown of the downtrodden, the worst of the worst and not just bad but consistently awful with only brief flashes.

The difference people is Michael Bidwill, he clawed this thing into the new world, if you know the team the one thing it lacked was an owner with a plan.

Michael is the reason we have hope now, it's all him.

 

[chicards11]

The Cardinals are a unique thing.

Very old franchise, very limited success even going back a long time, started in Chicago, moved to St. Louis and now in AZ.

There are a lot of closet Cardinal fans in St. Louis.

Heck there are even still fans from Chicago days.

The Cubs are the only compareable team in all of sports, odd they'd be from Chicago too.

Boston used to claim they were in that club but several years they were really good just couldn't win the big games until they beat the Cardinals... ironic isn't it?

For shear loveable ineptitude you have the Cubs and the Cardinals, one in baseball one in football.

Out of those two only the Cardinals have been that utterly bad that long, so we hold the crown of the downtrodden, the worst of the worst and not just bad but consistently awful with only brief flashes.

The difference people is Michael Bidwill, he clawed this thing into the new world, if you know the team the one thing it lacked was an owner with a plan.

Michael is the reason we have hope now, it's all him.

More than big mike IMO.....

what about Mac grass rooting for the prop 302? What about old man bidwill approving the Edge signing? What about graves for drafting dockett, wilson, dansby, fitz, boldin, etc....

the team had made great strides....

this year will be the year of the unknowns...... The Rays, The Cards, The Blackhawks, N.O. Hornets. LOL

 

[NeverSayDieFan]

I discovered professional sports in the Summer of 67'...

I was (10) at the time growing up in CT. and my 1st taste of victory was the baseball Cardinals defeating the Red Sox. From there it carried over to rooting for the Cards in football & the Blues in hockey. My loyalty to all (3) has never wavered and come this July I'll be (52). A true fan is just that. Win or lose that's your team. ...And I wouldn't have it any other way! GO CARDS!

 

[crisper57]

Well, I've only had season tickets for 3 years, which just happens to coincide with when I actually moved to AZ from NM. I'll ask the court for mercy and beg that I am allowed to buy season tickets.

Well, I did come to 2 Card games when I was on vacation out here, so I may be safe. I think the QB was Stoney Case, so will that get me my post season tix?

I too think it sucks to share, but think of it this way: If the Cards put a winner on the field, the bandwagoners suddenly grow our fanbase, which in turn leads to more national exposure, which leads to more respect in the media. I think we need the bandwagoners to stick around in order to stop being kicked around by the pundits.

 

[jefftheshark]

If "Bandwagon Fan" replaces the "Fan of the Opposing Team" at the UoP, then I'm more than happy to see them coming on board.

JTS

 

[CardLogic]

If "Bandwagon Fan" replaces the "Fan of the Opposing Team" at the UoP, then I'm more than happy to see them coming on board.

Excellent point!

 

[chickenhead]

Listen, if someone left because they'd had enough of watching players like Novacek, Williams, and Rice walk away to play in the Super Bowl for our rivals and for other teams that were able to turn it around...I never blamed them. This club lost a potential generation of fans that way. If the club earns them back--not by being successful but by being committed--then we should be thrilled to have them.

 

[Mulli]

Listen, if someone left because they'd had enough of watching players like Novacek, Williams, and Rice walk away to play in the Super Bowl for our rivals and for other teams that were able to turn it around...I never blamed them. This club lost a potential generation of fans that way. If the club earns them back--not by being successful but by being committed--then we should be thrilled to have them.

Great point. Did Tim McDonald play in the Super Bowl with the 9ers?

 

[john h]

I'm just done congratulating my best friend, a Rays fan from day one, on the success of his team. I'm very happy for the 9,000 hardcore Rays fans but find their exceptionally large contingent of bandwagon-jumpers pretty annoying. Half that crowd looks like they forgot to rip the tags off their new jerseys.

It's made me think a lot about what it would be like if the Cards made it to the top - you know what, after 25 losing seasons (OK, two 8-8 seasons and one playoff appearance mixed in) following every snap of every game, I feel like I wouldn't want to share the experience with the million Arizonans who would "realize" at the last minute that they love the Cardinals.

I know that's the nature of sports, but we all know that the Cards' base of hard-core fans is small. There are, what, a few thousand of us? We may be pessimists or optimists, we may think one another are jackasses sometimes (or all the time), and some of us have been at it for longer than others. But WHEN this team finally makes it to the top, I feel like....like we've "earned it" more and we should have the victory to ourselves. I know that's ridiculous, but I think it would be more awesome to win the Super Bowl with 25,000 fans in the crowd - the real fans - rather than a big crowd of people who didn't gut out the awful years like the rest of us did.

In other words, the Cards should require fans to present evidence of having been to one Josh McCown-era game before allowing them to buy playoff tickets. That would exclude me, but since I attended a game where our starting QB was Jim Frickin' McMahon I think I grandfather in.

I became a die hard fan of the Cards when I first saw them play the Bears at Wrigley Field in 1947. Can you imagine seeing the Cards at Wrigley playing the Bears? Charlie Trippi was my instant hero. Of course I became an instant Cubs fan. I had just moved the burbs from North Carolina and had never seen any professional sports fan. I think this was in 1944 or 1945. To think that the Cubs or Cards have done nothing to speak of since 1947? Who would have ever thought? My best memories of the Cards will always be the Jim Hart years. We did not win any trophies but we were solid contenders. With the Cubs we have a solid fan base win or lose and we fill that stadium and the buildings across the street nearly every game. With the Cards it has been a sad story. The worst years in my mind were the a few years after moving to Arizona and playing in Sun Devil Stadium. We had so few fans as it appeared on TV that it almost looked like a high school game.

This year for what ever reason I have some hope. Of course I have had hope in other years but we are on top of our division and the guys chasing us keep on losing. If we can just stay healthy I think we have our best shot at a playoff in many years. I do wonder just how many really hard core Cardinal fans there are out there? I have lived in Little Rock for 40 years and have met only one Cardinal fan. When Steve Little was drafted out of the U. of Arkansas we begin to get all the Cards games on radio as Steve was sort of a legend here in Arkansas. I saw him a lot when he came back to Little Rock. A special house was built to accommodate him. He frequented many of the local bars and appeared to drink to much. His brother helped him a lot. My daughter knew him. He died a few years ago. I am not sure what really happened to Steve as living in the condition he was in had to be beyond anything I can imagine.

We have had a fun the first 6 weeks including beating the Cowboys. They are now in football hell.

Great to see the Rays win after only 10 years as a franchise. The Cards have not won anything for 61 years and the Cubs for 100 years. It is not easy being both a die-hard Cubs and Cards fan. Dam! I hope one of these teams wins something before the end of days.

 

[chicards11]

I became a die hard fan of the Cards when I first saw them play the Bears at Wrigley Field in 1947. Can you imagine seeing the Cards at Wrigley playing the Bears? Charlie Trippi was my instant hero. Of course I became an instant Cubs fan. I had just moved the burbs from North Carolina and had never seen any professional sports fan. I think this was in 1944 or 1945. To think that the Cubs or Cards have done nothing to speak of since 1947? Who would have ever thought? My best memories of the Cards will always be the Jim Hart years. We did not win any trophies but we were solid contenders. With the Cubs we have a solid fan base win or lose and we fill that stadium and the buildings across the street nearly every game. With the Cards it has been a sad story. The worst years in my mind were the a few years after moving to Arizona and playing in Sun Devil Stadium. We had so few fans as it appeared on TV that it almost looked like a high school game.


This year for what ever reason I have some hope. Of course I have had hope in other years but we are on top of our division and the guys chasing us keep on losing. If we can just stay healthy I think we have our best shot at a playoff in many years. I do wonder just how many really hard core Cardinal fans there are out there? I have lived in Little Rock for 40 years and have met only one Cardinal fan. When Steve Little was drafted out of the U. of Arkansas we begin to get all the Cards games on radio as Steve was sort of a legend here in Arkansas. I saw him a lot when he came back to Little Rock. A special house was built to accommodate him. He frequented many of the local bars and appeared to drink to much. His brother helped him a lot. My daughter knew him. He died a few years ago. I am not sure what really happened to Steve as living in the condition he was in had to be beyond anything I can imagine.

We have had a fun the first 6 weeks including beating the Cowboys. They are now in football hell.

Great to see the Rays win after only 10 years as a franchise. The Cards have not won anything for 61 years and the Cubs for 100 years. It is not easy being both a die-hard Cubs and Cards fan. Dam! I hope one of these teams wins something before the end of days.

EH..... Sorry but no sympathy for a cubs fan. You guys choose to fill that stadium because of the historical significance of the ballpark, not for the team. That in turn lines the trib co./Zell's pockets win or lose. The cubs have managed to throw money around like it grows on tree's thus driving up the cost for other teams to keep their core players around or be active in free agency. 100 years....that hurts but im not shedding a tear for that club. they deserve it.