The reality is...

[MaoTosiFanClub]

...and I've been saying it for weeks is that every QB on our roster sucks. We've seen the inability of McCown and King to be quality NFL QBs so far and if you're holding out for John Navarre, you need to put down the pipe. Navarre sucked in college, so can anyone please tell me how the light is going to turn on in the NFL?

First off, Shaun King. I haven't seen such crappy displays of offense since...well, when Josh McCown was starting. No passing accuracy, poor clock management, no leadership, and an overall complete sense of disorganization and chaos on the offensive side of the ball. I don't know how anyone could defend the last two "performances," unless of course you are some moronic Redskin fan who had English 101 with King at Tulane. And in case anyone was wondering, I would have booed with everybody else except I knew that the offense looked exactly the same under McCown's watch and unfortunately, that's who was warming up.

Speaking of McCown, three posessions and three turnovers. Spare me the crap about being put in a bad situation. The guy is in his third year in the NFL and not surprisingly, played like a rookie. The game was almost over, with the nail about to be put in the coffin, when McCown decided that instead of letting the Jets do the hammering, he could do it himself. The pressure was on McCown to deliver after a delusional crowd of 20,000 had been screaming for him like he's Peyton Manning. And like we have seen before, McCown didn't respond to the pressure and ended a game that was still not over. Unfortunately for McCown, the refs or the defense didn't bail him out to buy him another start in the desert as they had many times before.

Speaking of being bailed out,has any of you Navarre backers ever seen a scouting report on John Navarre? To sum it up for you, he is Josh McCown II as in having million dollar tolls and a ten cent brain. He was nearly universally maligned at Michigan by fellow students and alumni for his inability to step up in big games and being constitently bailed out by superior supporting talent like Chris Perry and Braylon Edwards. He has no awareness and is known for his fumbling when he gets hit and for having an unusual amount of balls being batted down for a guy who is 6'6. And we all kinow he will get destroyed behind this o-line against defenses that show no mercy to rookie QBs. John Navarre is Chris Rix of the Big 10 and holding out hope for him to step in and be our franchise QB is about the same as holding out hope Neil Lomax gets cloned and starts winging TDs in a Cardinal uni again.

In conclusion, the sooner we give up these nonsensical pipe dreams of 3rd string Tampa Bay rejects, Southern Methodist benchwarmers, and seventh round Michigan punching bags being our franchise QB, the better off we are going to be as an organization as for once we'll maybe think about actually acqiring a QB capable of leading this thing to the promised land. None of these three will do it, so let's actually scout the position and invest some smart money into it for once.

No more avoiding QBs like the plague in the 1st round just because of financial reasons, no more investing many millions into a position that requires good QB play and then neglecting to bring in a QB that can provide it. It's high time we sack up and bring in a franchise QB. I don't care if it's via trade or draft or both but get it done Rod, because this organization and city need it.

 

[az jam]

Unfortunately, I can't see many arguing with you on this.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

Speaking of McCown, three posessions and three turnovers. Spare me the crap about being put in a bad situation. The guy is in his third year in the NFL and not surprisingly, played like a rookie.

Two things:

1) Please explain to me how Josh McCown is responsible for Boldin's fumble. I would really like to know.

2) McCown played like a rookie. Gee, the guy has all of 11 NFL starts in his career under his belt, so basically (now get ready), HE IS A ROOKIE!!!

 

[Rats]

For all your pompus posturing, you have no solution. We have to go with the QB on our roster this year that GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN THIS YEAR! Maybe you would like to see Scott Player as the QB. You complain for complaints sake with no solution except wa wa " we need to sack up and get a stud QB". DG said he would use someone that fits his system. Maybe he is on the roster maybe he isn't but without putting them out there you won't and don't know. DG can only fix so much in a single year. Our Oline is a mess in case you are to blind to see it. And yes in yesterdays game we all called for McCown because for those with no clue... he is the QB on the roster that gives us the best chance to win NOW. Without a running game I am not sure any QB could lead this team behind this line. I think you need to rethink your reality. We will have a system QB not some bonus baby( If we were going to have one of those we would have picked Ben or Byron, we didn't, spilt milk, get over it) that several keep harping on. If Brees were to come here he would be a System QB. DG system is what is trying to be put in place. He is undermanned. Everyone knew it going in to this year. He will get it fixed. You need to be patient and let things get sorted out.

 

[Russ Smith]

Two things:

1) Please explain to me how Josh McCown is responsible for Boldin's fumble. I would really like to know.

2) McCown played like a rookie. Gee, the guy has all of 11 NFL starts in his career under his belt, so basically (now get ready), HE IS A ROOKIE!!!

1) you're right not his fault.

2) You're wrong it's his 3rd year, he's about to become an RFA, he's not a rookie he's just a very raw 3rd year QB.

I thought the decision on the first pick was terrible, wanted to give Quan a chance to make a play put some air on the ball, don't bullet it right to Barrett, he was trying to make a play and that's why it happened, but he didn't give Quan any chance to make a play and we were in FG range at the time needing 10 points to tie.

That said, it wasn't his fault we were in that spot and I can certainly understand him feeling he had to take risks and gamble there and we got the inevitable result.

 

[kerouac9]

Great post, Mao. Post of the Month. Some of my personal favorite moments:

I haven't seen such crappy displays of offense since...well, when Josh McCown was starting.

...when Mccown decided that instead of letting the Jets do the hammering, he could do it himself. The pressure was on McCown to deliver after a delusional crowd of 20,000 had been screaming for him like he's Payton Manning.

John Navarre is Chris Rix of the Big 10

Anyway, I think that either McCown or King could still be mediocre starting NFL QBs, but in order to do so, they're going to have to have a running game to help them. And this team doesn't have a running game. They had a very average running game with Emmitt, and nothing with Croom/Scobey, and anyone who thinks that Marcel Shipp is the cure of this team's ills has been spending too much time with Ricky Williams.

I don't think that you need a stud QB to run Dennis Green's offense. You just need a guy with a cannon on his shoulder and some accuracy. The system is designed to let the WRs make the plays, not the QB. I think that with a good RB and decent offensive line, either QB would look better than he is right now.

But that's not saying much.

 

[Cardinal Bob]

1) you're right not his fault.

2) You're wrong it's his 3rd year, he's about to become an RFA, he's not a rookie he's just a very raw 3rd year QB.

I know that Josh is in his 3rd year. My point is that he hasn't even played a full slate of games yet. So to expect him to come in and play at a level of someone who has actually played 3 seasons is ridiculous! He's in his first full season of actually playing, rather than standing on the sideline holding a clipboard, so to see him making mistakes is not surprising. It seems like everyone here wants instant results, and aren't patient enough to wait out the mistakes that are inevitable for a young player.

 

[spanky1]

as to franchise QB's.......I'm on record as saying passing on the chance to draft Leftwich will turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Southpaw]

" . John Navarre is Chris Rix of the Big 10 and holding out hope for him to step in and be our franchise QB is about the same as holding out hope Neil Lomax gets cloned and starts winging TDs in a Cardinal uni again."

That is a total insult to Chris Rix.

The difference between Rix and Navarre is huge, Chris Rix is actually a good athlete who is a terrible QB. Navarre is a terrible athlete who is a bad QB. Chris Rix could probably make it in the NFL as a WR. Navarre could make it in the NFL as a holder on snaps. Maybe.

 

[Russ Smith]

I know that Josh is in his 3rd year. My point is that he hasn't even played a full slate of games yet. So to expect him to come in and play at a level of someone who has actually played 3 seasons is ridiculous! He's in his first full season of actually playing, rather than standing on the sideline holding a clipboard, so to see him making mistakes is not surprising. It seems like everyone here wants instant results, and aren't patient enough to wait out the mistakes that are inevitable for a young player.

But to treat him as a rookie is equally ridiculous he's had 3 NFL camps and 3 pre season schedules of games. He is what we drafted, a very raw but athletic QB.

And remember, the only one who TRULY expected Josh to play at a high level this year was Dennis Green.

Regarding patience, I am a lot more patient with a young QB that I personally believe has a bright future. The whole NFL passed on Josh, twice, for a reason. King was passed over in FA for a reason. We've seen that demonstrated over and over this year. If I'm going to be watching young mistakes I want to see some flashes of brilliance too, I haven't seen it from any of our QB's.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Two things:

1) Please explain to me how Josh McCown is responsible for Boldin's fumble. I would really like to know.

2) McCown played like a rookie. Gee, the guy has all of 11 NFL starts in his career under his belt, so basically (now get ready), HE IS A ROOKIE!!!

2)
Todd Bouman probably has less than 16 career starts just as other vets such as Koy Detmer, Doug Pederson, and the Huard brothers do but would you consider them "rookies?" Of course not because they, like McCown, have been in the NFL for more than one year and have had multiple years of NFL game and practice experience to fall back on. Rookies don't have that luxury.

 

[john h]

...and I've been saying it for weeks is that every QB on our roster sucks. We've seen the inability of McCown and King to be quality NFL QBs so far and if you're holding out for John Navarre, you need to put down the pipe. Navarre sucked in college, so can anyone please tell me how the light is going to turn on in the NFL?

First off, Shaun King. I haven't seen such crappy displays of offense since...well, when Josh McCown was starting. No passing accuracy, poor clock management, no leadership, and an overall complete sense of disoranization and chaos on the offensive side of the ball. I don't know how anyone could defend the last two "performances," unless of course yuo are some moronic Redskin fan who had English 101 with King at Tulane. And in case anyone ewas wondering, I would have booed with everybody else except I knew that the offense looked exactly the same under McCown's watch and unfortunately, that's who was warming up.

Speaking of McCown, three posessions and three turnovers. Spare me the crap about being put in a bad situation. The guy is in his third year in the NFL and not surprisingly, played like a rookie. The game was almost over, with the nail about to be put in the coffin, when Mccown decided that instead of letting the Jets do the hammering, he could do it himself. The pressure was on McCown to deliver after a delusional crowd of 20,000 had been screaming for him like he's Payton Manning. And like we have seen before, McCown didn't respond to the pressure and ended a game that was still not over. Unfortunelty for McCown, the refs or the defense didn't bail him out to buy him another start in the desert as they had many times before.

Speaking of being bailed out,has any of you Navarre backers ever seen a scouting report on John Navarre? To sum it up for you, he is Josh McCown II as in having million dollar tolls and a ten cent brain. He was nearly universally maligned at Michigan by fellow students and alumni for his inability to step up in big games and being constitently bailed out by superior supporting talent like Chris Perry and Braylon Edwards. He has no pocket presence and is known for his fumbling when he gets hit, and we all kinow he will get destroyed behind this o-line against defenses that show no mercy to rookie QBs. John Navarre is Chris Rix of the Big 10 and holding out hope for him to step in and be our franchise QB is about the same as holding out hope Neil Lomax gets cloned and starts winging TDs in a Cardinal uni again.

In conclusion, the sooner we give up these nonsensical pipe dreams of 3rd string Tampa Bay rejects, Southern Methodist benchwarmers, and seventh round Michigan punching bags being our franchise QB, the better off we are going to be as an organization as for once we'll maybe think about actually acqiring a QB capable of leading this thing to the promised land. None of these three will do it, so let's actually scout the position and invest some smart money into it for once.

No more avoiding QBs like the plague in the 1st round just because of financial reasons, no more investing many millions into a position that requires good QB play and then neglecting to bring in a QB that can provide it. It's high time we sack up and bring in a franchise QB. I don't care if it's via trade or draft or both but get it done Rod, because this organization and city need it.

Well put Russ and I agree with you. We made a horrible mistake last year by not taking a QB when there were several good ones available and we were drafting high enough to get one. We already had receivers. People talk about signing Drew Brees a FA who will likely be an an all pro QB. He sure would not elect to come to our team for obvious reasons. Fact is I think San Diego will trade Rivers which might be an opening for us with one of our receivers. Both Rivers and one our receivers make big bucks so we would be trading dollars for dollars. Rivers was considered a good draft pick but would still be a gamble. We are having trouble with Bolden over money who I would hate to lose but he will be out of here when his contract is up if we do not get a QB where he can showcase his skills. As it is now our receivers are our strong suit but are totally useless with our lack of a QB. We are going to have to give up someone good to get a good QB. If San Diego decides to go with Brees who will want really really big bucks you can bet Dallas,Chicago will be all over Brees and there is no way he will come to a team like ours with those two in pursuit. He will not go from a winner to a loser for any amount of money. Carter would not come here and chose the Jets for the same reason. If we go the FA route we will just end up with more Shawn Kings and the like. The sooner this team realizes we need a real QB and decides to put the money into it or put together a trade with one of our key players the sooner this titanic can be turned around. QB's do not grow on trees and you cannot go into season after season thinking you will just sign a great FA QB. It want happen with AZ.

 

[spanky1]

Saying McCown is a 3rd yr. QB is, while accurate, totally unfair. David Carr is a third year QB......Joey Harrington is a third year QB........and the last time I looked, they were no more effective for their teams than McCown has (or, has not) been for the Cardinals.

 

[Pariah]

Saying McCown is a 3rd yr. QB is, while accurate, totally unfair. David Carr is a third year QB......Joey Harrington is a third year QB........and the last time I looked, they were no more effective for their teams than McCown has (or, has not) been for the Cardinals.

Huh? You mean the David Carr that lead his team from behind to beat the Titans this week?

Josh isn't a rookie. He's an ineffective third year QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

Saying McCown is a 3rd yr. QB is, while accurate, totally unfair. David Carr is a third year QB......Joey Harrington is a third year QB........and the last time I looked, they were no more effective for their teams than McCown has (or, has not) been for the Cardinals.

Need to look again, Carr has had a pretty reasonable year and considering he started with a team from scratch his first 2 years weren't horrible either.

NOt a huge Harrington fan, he does some things well but his arm is just average and anybody who is struggling to hold off Mike McMahon at QB has a problem because McMahon is a safety playing QB.

I caught the Cards postgame show on radio, I think it was Wolfley talking about how we opened it up for King and need to do that for Josh to be fair. He said he doesn't believe that's true, he thinks it was open for Josh too, but he wasn't throwing the ball downfield. He said how do we know that Wood, Kruczek and Green weren't yelling "throw the 9 route" when Fitz has single coverage and Josh elects to dump it off short of the first down? The point being, he said Green didn't trust either QB, made that clear with the playcalling in the redzone, but he felt King made his own bed with bad throws, and Josh with simply not letting the ball go.

 

[pete]

I caught the Cards postgame show on radio, I think it was Wolfley talking about how we opened it up for King and need to do that for Josh to be fair. He said he doesn't believe that's true, he thinks it was open for Josh too, but he wasn't throwing the ball downfield. He said how do we know that Wood, Kruczek and Green weren't yelling "throw the 9 route" when Fitz has single coverage and Josh elects to dump it off short of the first down? The point being, he said Green didn't trust either QB, made that clear with the playcalling in the redzone, but he felt King made his own bed with bad throws, and Josh with simply not letting the ball go.

That is basically what I said last month about McCown. The plays were there, he just wasn't making them.

Wolfley been reading my posts. Get your own material Bell Dodge boy.

 

[Southpaw]

Saying McCown is a 3rd yr. QB is, while accurate, totally unfair. David Carr is a third year QB......Joey Harrington is a third year QB........and the last time I looked, they were no more effective for their teams than McCown has (or, has not) been for the Cardinals.

Wow. David Carr , if available, would be snatched up by about 20 + teams, including Dennis Green's Cards.

As far as Joey Harrington, the guy is missing Charles Rogers for 2 years, a totally healthy Roy Williams, rookie RB Kevin Jones, who lately has looked fantastic. I see much better things ahead for him. Let's see how Joey does next week against the Cards. This team will grow around him.

 

[john h]

For all your pompus posturing, you have no solution. We have to go with the QB on our roster this year that GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN THIS YEAR! Maybe you would like to see Scott Player as the QB. You complain for complaints sake with no solution except wa wa " we need to sack up and get a stud QB". DG said he would use someone that fits his system. Maybe he is on the roster maybe he isn't but without putting them out there you won't and don't know. DG can only fix so much in a single year. Our Oline is a mess in case you are to blind to see it. And yes in yesterdays game we all called for McCown because for those with no clue... he is the QB on the roster that gives us the best chance to win NOW. Without a running game I am not sure any QB could lead this team behind this line. I think you need to rethink your reality. We will have a system QB not some bonus baby( If we were going to have one of those we would have picked Ben or Byron, we didn't, spilt milk, get over it) that several keep harping on. If Brees were to come here he would be a System QB. DG system is what is trying to be put in place. He is undermanned. Everyone knew it going in to this year. He will get it fixed. You need to be patient and let things get sorted out.

You and others often mention the DG System. Just what is the DG system? I have never heard Dennis or anyone else explain it. Is it the West Coast Offense, The Dennis Green Offensive, or just some blurry words to that are meaningless. I think the latter. If you do not understand your past you are doomed to repeat it over and over so last years choice to go into another season with an untried or leftover QB is not crying over spilt milk. It is the history of the same mistakes we make year after year and until we learn from that history we will remain a mediocre team at the best.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

For all your pompus posturing, you have no solution. We have to go with the QB on our roster this year that GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN THIS YEAR! Maybe you would like to see Scott Player as the QB. You complain for complaints sake with no solution except wa wa " we need to sack up and get a stud QB". DG said he would use someone that fits his system. Maybe he is on the roster maybe he isn't but without putting them out there you won't and don't know. DG can only fix so much in a single year. Our Oline is a mess in case you are to blind to see it. And yes in yesterdays game we all called for McCown because for those with no clue... he is the QB on the roster that gives us the best chance to win NOW. Without a running game I am not sure any QB could lead this team behind this line. I think you need to rethink your reality. We will have a system QB not some bonus baby( If we were going to have one of those we would have picked Ben or Byron, we didn't, spilt milk, get over it) that several keep harping on. If Brees were to come here he would be a System QB. DG system is what is trying to be put in place. He is undermanned. Everyone knew it going in to this year. He will get it fixed. You need to be patient and let things get sorted out.

I think you misunderstood me. All I said was this team needs a franchise QB, nothing about a bonus baby. Brett Favre is a franchise QB and was obtained in a trade as was Mark Brunnell in Jax. Marc Bulger was drafted late along with Tom Brady. Jake Delhomme was signed to a menial fee agent contract. If someone like these guys was available and we didn't have to draft him in the Top 10 or spend a large chunk of change on him, then I'd be all for it. However, if we are sure about someone, I don't think we should pass on him due to financial concerns. As to who gives us the best chance to win, I guess it would be McCown although his sub-.500 record as a starter is nothing to brag about. I wrote that becasue I see the desperation for a franchise Qb and I don't think we should go another offseason ignoring the problem.

Oh, and Wally I understand the differences between Rix and Navarre. Both have cannons yet Rix is more athletic. Howver, both are universally despised by their fellow students, teammates, and alumni and both in college lacked the intangibles necessary to be an effective QB. It's going to be funny when someone drafts Rix as a QB after his combine workout.

 

[jstadvl]

Stop

the insanity! Anyone know the serenity prayer? You can't change what we have. Hopefully, maybe miraculously, some of these guys GET IT! Maybe they don't.
Boldin's umble was all boldin. and, forhget the crap about taping his fingers. He already made the catch. He dropped one right to him the series before that.
The InT. was all McCown, he should have run and gone out of bounds.
Anyway you want to look at it, Navarre starts next week with Croom,. I think both of them are better than you all think. Let's see. But please stop the McCown stuff. It's like beating a dead horse.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

the insanity! Anyone know the serenity prayer? You can't change what we have.

Actually you can change what you have, that's what the offseason is for. And by my count, we have screwed up every offseason in regards to the QB position for nearly a decade. Time to stop the nonsense and bring in someone who can get the job done.

Anyway you want to look at it, Navarre starts next week with Croom,. I think both of them are better than you all think. Let's see. But please stop the McCown stuff. It's like beating a dead horse.

i hope your right with Navarre and Croom, but I just don't see it. Croom transferred from a bad Arizona team because he couldn't get any PT and was undrafted. Navarre was a 7th orund draft pick hated by nearly every fan of UM for his bad quarterbacking, which you can see below.

Examples:
http://mb4.scout.com/flionsfansfrm1.showMessage?topicID=46734.topic
http://www.thelionsfanatics.com/tlfforum/index.php?showtopic=10617

Keep in mind, most of thesse guys have been watching Navarre for about 5x as long as most of us have. And I wish I could give up on McCown (because the Cardinals organization has), but people still keep harping on giving him another chance when he has three years and twelve starts and accomplished nothing.

 

[cdex99]

...and I've been saying it for weeks is that every QB on our roster sucks. We've seen the inability of McCown and King to be quality NFL QBs so far and if you're holding out for John Navarre, you need to put down the pipe. Navarre sucked in college, so can anyone please tell me how the light is going to turn on in the NFL?

How can you say that Navarre sucked in college? The kid was 31-11 in the Big Ten!!! He's thrown the most TD's in Michigan history. He's thrown for the most yards in Michigan history by almost 3000 yards. To say the kid sucks is a bit premature. Just because he was a seventh round pick doesn't mean he sucks.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

How can you say that Navarre sucked in college? The kid was 31-11 in the Big Ten!!! He's thrown the most TD's in Michigan history. He's thrown for the most yards in Michigan history by almost 3000 yards. To say the kid sucks is a bit premature. Just because he was a seventh round pick doesn't mean he sucks.

He was nicknamed "Small Game" Navarre for a reason. If you have a survey of 100 Michigan fans, I'm guessing somewhere between 85-90 of them will have something bad to say about Navarre. I hope Navarre sets the league on fire as Green vowed McCown would do, but I have a hard time seeing it happening.

And school records mean little in college. Chris Rix and Chris Weinke broke school records and led their teams to good records at Florida State, Zack Mills broke all sorts of records at Penn State, etc. etc. The fact remians that Navarre is a rookie 7th round draft pick, had a terrible combine, and was mercilessly booed by his own fans in college. Sorry if I'm not optimistic about his future in the NFL.

 

[Russ Smith]

the insanity! Anyone know the serenity prayer? You can't change what we have. .

Serenity now!

 

[Russ Smith]

How can you say that Navarre sucked in college? The kid was 31-11 in the Big Ten!!! He's thrown the most TD's in Michigan history. He's thrown for the most yards in Michigan history by almost 3000 yards. To say the kid sucks is a bit premature. Just because he was a seventh round pick doesn't mean he sucks.

He did that because he played in so many games. Plus UM traditionally ran the ball, under Henson they were putting in a more wide open offense, then Henson bolted so Navarre ran the offense. They threw the ball more.

he's the first Michigan QB to throw for 3000 yards in a season, it's not like the records he broke were all that special. And FYI they were 32-5 the 3 years before he played, and 28-10 the 3 years he was the starter all year. THat's one of the reasons he was so unpopular. The only gut at Michigan LESS popular during that time was Henson because he left early and is seen as a traitor.