The Reality of Josh McCown - and other musings . . .

[Cheesebeef]

First and foremost - Josh McCown DID NOT lose this game for us today. This was a total team collapse - on the level of something we haven't seen since Bugel blew a 19-10 lead against the Giants in the Meadowlands back in 1991.

On the positive side - Fitz is an abslute stud - Cris Carter combined with Terrl Owens is what we'll have when Quan gets back and that my friends is something to look forward to. Pace continued his amazing play and Josh threw three touchdowns - but that's where the fun stops and here is the reality of what hit home the most today: Josh McCown doesn't perform well when faced with pressure and I will outline my reasons why we will never win anything of consequences with him below:

The QB is the leader of the team - ONCE IN FOUR GAMES - HE NEEDS TO STEP UP IN PRESSURE SITUTAIONS - PERIOD.

The D blew this game - but Josh had the ball after the first TD and what doe she do on 3rd and 9 - throws a dump off to Hambrick four yards short of the first down marker. Then after the D lets us another score - we get the ball at the 40 - all we need is 25 yards - we pick up 9 on first down and then after wasting 15 seconds - Josh takes AHORRIBLE sack on 2nd down - and then almost throws a pick on third down. We had 2nd and 1 at the 50 - and what happened ? We went backwards when the pressure built and then almost got picked.

What happend after the Rams went up 17-10 - Josh got the ball back three times in that fourth quarter and we never even crossed midfield.

What happend after we got back within 17-12 against the Pats and the defense held? Josh comes in - actually gets time and throws into triple coverage getting picked off in the process.

What happens when the defense GIVES him the ball against the Falcons time after time after time again down by 6-0 in the fourth? Josh fumbles the ball inside the 20 twice.

These aren't the makings of a leader - these games were all there for the taking and if we had someone who could actually make a big play at QB when it matters most, when the chips are down - maybe we aren't 1-4 and staring at another losing season.

When the chips are down, McCown has had urine running down his leg. Four straight games - we have a shot to win - in everyone of those drives - we have come away with ZERO POINTS - not even a field goal! THat is not leadership.

So yes - the D gave the game away today, but our QB was still given the opportunity to bail them out for once - you know like they have for him all season - and for the fourth time in four game s- in a close game either tied or down in the fourth, Josh came up completely empty.

And it's not like Josh has ever really established that he could handle pressure - AT ANY LEVEL - he couldn't even hack it in college and transfered down to Div 1AA and we are seeing his inability to rise above . . . to raise the play of others when the chips are down . . . to get that crucial first down when it really matters . . . and that my friends is all I have to say about that.

Four games in the fourth with an opportunity to win . . . very similar to another team who's defense has played well for the most part of the beginning of the season and needed one play, one drive fromt their QB to get - Lefty.

Oh - and Ray Thompson sucked just as he always has and does. Missed tackles and TEs running free seemed to be a thing of the past the first three weeks, then good old "Playmaking Ray" came back and we saw what happened. Where the hell was Darling today?

One more thing - anyone who was on hre bemoaning a lack of respect all week should look themselves in the mirror and then slap themselves in the face while repeating this phrase until it sticks: Respect isn't deserved - IT'S EARNED - YOU GET REPSECT WITH W'S - NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS.

Still - see good things for this team next year - but my expectations are back from lala land after today's debacle - it's gonna take a lot to wash the stench this franchise has had for the last 50 years.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Well I think you're mostly right but you can't say McCown shys away from adversity like you mentioned... how about last year? Everybody thought we were going to draft a qb and then he goes out and beats Mini on the last play of the game! I thought that took a lot of guts and I don't know (if I were a talented inexperienced qb) if I would have been able to calm down enough to do what he did in that game and I doubt many qb's in his situation would....

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well I think you're mostly right but you can't say McCown shys away from adversity like you mentioned... how about last year? Everybody thought we were going to draft a qb and then he goes out and beats Mini on the last play of the game! I thought that took a lot of guts and I don't know (if I were a talented inexperienced qb) if I would have been able to calm down enough to do what he did in that game and I doubt many qb's in his situation would....

one time in the face of the rest of his entire football playing career - to me so far - it looks like the exception to the rule and it would be hard to argue otherwise.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Don't worry cheesy. I'm sure brother Ouchie willl be along shortly to post how astute and intelligent you are with your rantings.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Don't worry cheesy. I'm sure brother Ouchie willl be along shortly to post how astute and intelligent you are with your rantings.

Why don't you respond to the post Tango? Don't you think a QB - a good QB should have been able to at least once in four games made the big play or led the big drive to actually win a game when it matters most?

Out of curiosity - How does it feel being so wrong about everything about your favorite team - over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Why don't you respond to the post Tango? Don't you think a QB - a good QB should have been able to at least once in four games made the big play or led the big drive to actually win a game when it matters most?

Out of curiosity - How does it feel being so wrong about everything about your favorite team - over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

In the first place, the simplest answer is....I just don't think its worth the time and effort to do so. I consider your post mostly your own little rant not even serious enough to spend the futile effort of arguing with you over it.

And as to being so often wrong...I'll match my record against yours any day of the week.

 

[thirty-two]

Even the great quarterbacks don't lead their team to victory everytime when it counts the most. Sure, Josh not being able to do it at all this season makes me wonder, but I'm just not ready to throw in the towel with McCown yet. Give me a full season, where he can get more chances to take over games, and I'll re-evaluate it then.

But I will say, his lack of 4th quarter-balls is making me a little uneasy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

In the first place, the simplest answer is....I just don't think its worth the time and effort to do so. I consider your post mostly your own little rant not even serious enough to spend the futile effort of arguing with you over it.

And as to being so often wrong...I'll match my record against yours any day of the week.

Okay - let's see - apparently - the sky wasn't falling prior to last season - right? I was pretty wrong about how atrocious we were gonna be? Man were you dead on about everything being okay last season - so i guess you got me there.

I'm also pretty sure you got me when you claimed how outrageuous it was that I thought the Patriots were better player personnell evaluators than us. But - again - I guess their second Super Bowl in three years wasn't all that impressive compared to last year's squad or the previous year's squads - especially considering the turnover we've seen this year.

Any retort? No - because you have nothing to say because while you may lvoe this team and watch them as intensely asanyone else here, you are clearly delusional when it comes to being objective about anything that has to do with this team

So - yeah - you've now said you'll match you're record (whatever the hell that is) against mine - I'll call you on it. What's your record over the last two years Tango versus Mine - this should be almost as good as your Jake Plummer Erotica.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Are you having fun talking to yourself Cheesy?????

As I have time, I'll gladly enumerate some examples.
And I may not limit my self to YOUR stated parameters of only the past 2 years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Are you having fun talking to yourself Cheesy?????

As I have time, I'll gladly enumerate some examples.
And I may not limit my self to YOUR stated parameters of only the past 2 years.

Umm - considering I've only been here for the last two years - how else are we going to compare braniac?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Umm - considering I've only been here for the last two years - how else are we going to compare braniac?

OMG....you mean you didn't create this board in all your omnipotent wisdom?
You were never around in the old AZSPRORTS board? or even prior?

I've been offering opinions here and on the boards that evolved into this one for quite some time. I can't help if if you are just some Johnny-come-lately.


You know there was intelligent life form here before you ever arrived, whether you think so or not.

 

[Cheesebeef]

OMG....you mean you didn't create this board in all your omnipotent wisdom?
You were never around in the old AZSPRORTS board? or even prior?

I've been offering opinions here and on the boards that evolved into this one for quite some time. I can't help if if you are just some Johnny-come-lately.


You know there was intelligent life form here before you ever arrived, whether you think so or not.

Johnny come lately or not - it doesn't matter - find your posts from the old board - you're gonna be just as clueless there as you have been here Tango.

And nice George Bush like spin in the first sentence - you are such a sad sad bitter lonley man aren't you? It's okay - maybe after the season you can have a dream where you are in a nice little prom dress and maybe Josh will actuially take you to that dance you never got from Jake.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know there was intelligent life form here before you ever arrived, whether you think so or not.

Why don't you go make some racist remark and get banned again oh master of intelligence?

There's a lot of intelligence on this board Tango - it's a good thing we have you here to balance it out.

 

[Chopper0080]

Tango,

Normally I can see possibly some side to your arguements, but this last one makes you sound idiotic. Who cares if he was on the AZ board, or if you have posted longer? What bearing does that have on your debate with Cheese? How many generalizations are you going to throw out? You probably don't care, but this is how you come off to readers.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Why don't you go make some racist remark and get banned again oh master of intelligence?

There's a lot of intelligence on this board Tango - it's a good thing we have you here to balance it out.

\

Are you drunk? or on drugs right now?

Maybe you better come back when your sober/straight.

 

[Cheesebeef]

\

Are you drunk? or on drugs right now?

Maybe you better come back when your sober/straight.

Just answer the question Tango - why hasn't the kid made one big play when it really matters in the fourth quarter - when he's had adversity looking him dead in the eye - isn't that the true measure of a leader? I thought he played great up until adversity struck and he had to truly lead the team. Hell - I was rooting for him - but like I was in the first four games we lost - I was dissappointed in the end result.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Tango,

Normally I can see possibly some side to your arguements, but this last one makes you sound idiotic. Who cares if he was on the AZ board, or if you have posted longer? What bearing does that have on your debate with Cheese? How many generalizations are you going to throw out? You probably don't care, but this is how you come off to readers.

Well, to begin with, Cheesy originally tried jerking my chain by stating:

Out of curiosity - How does it feel being so wrong about everything about your favorite team - over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

Now, its not my problem if he's only been here two years. He even referred to some nebulous, I guess, supposed comment of mine in regard to the Pats talent evaluation capabilities.
The only time that I can ever remember dissing the Pats was back on the old AZSPORTSFAN board, when NEM was stilll around, the year they signed all the "mid range talent" free agents. I did state I thought they were one of the worst teams in football at that point, even worse than the Cards.
I ate crow on that one. But I wasn't alone. A lot of people shared that same opinion at the time. Since then I've done nothing but praise them. I think they have one of the best coaching staffs and teams in the NFL now.
So it really makes me wonder exactly what Cheesy is referring to with his little quip.

He says I've been wrong over, and over, and over, and over.

I say he's whacked. Like anyone, I have missed a few calls. But like I said, not nearly so many as he infers. And I'll even go out on a limb to say, in all the years I've been posting on this board, or its predecessors, the times I have been blatently wrong still won't come close to matching him in the time he's been here only.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Just answer the question Tango - why hasn't the kid made one big play when it really matters in the fourth quarter - when he's had adversity looking him dead in the eye - isn't that the true measure of a leader? I thought he played great up until adversity struck and he had to truly lead the team. Hell - I was rooting for him - but like I was in the first four games we lost - I was dissappointed in the end result.

Once again, cheese, I think you're missing the point.

Yes, Josh did fail to sustain a drive in the fourth q. you're right.

However, he showed enough progress in other areas that we can reasonably expect him to develop into a solid, if not great qb.

By progress I mean:

not fumbling

not holding the ball too long

throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack.

getting the ball to the receivers where they have a chance to make a play.


Specifically, on the long TD to Fitz, josh audibled into that play. He saw Fitz had single coverage, and hoisted it up there where the rook could make a play.

Yeah that was just one play. But come on Cheese. I bet his QB rating was around 85 or 90 today. You've got to take that. You've got to expect the defense and special teams to step up and play better.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Just answer the question Tango - why hasn't the kid made one big play when it really matters in the fourth quarter - when he's had adversity looking him dead in the eye - isn't that the true measure of a leader? I thought he played great up until adversity struck and he had to truly lead the team. Hell - I was rooting for him - but like I was in the first four games we lost - I was dissappointed in the end result.

I don't know. Its your story. I think the whole thing is just too asinine to even get that involved with. I seriously doubt that anything I would say now on the matter would accomplish anything anyway. Its your story....YOU stick to it. I personally think its a silly little fantasy.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Once again, cheese, I think you're missing the point.

Yes, Josh did fail to sustain a drive in the fourth q. you're right.

However, he showed enough progress in other areas that we can reasonably expect him to develop into a solid, if not great qb.

By progress I mean:

not fumbling

not holding the ball too long

throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack.

getting the ball to the receivers where they have a chance to make a play.


Specifically, on the long TD to Fitz, josh audibled into that play. He saw Fitz had single coverage, and hoisted it up there where the rook could make a play.

Yeah that was just one play. But come on Cheese. I bet his QB rating was around 85 or 90 today. You've got to take that. You've got to expect the defense and special teams to step up and play better.

Fox did show a rating of 84.5, I believe, near the end of the game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Once again, cheese, I think you're missing the point.

Yes, Josh did fail to sustain a drive in the fourth q. you're right.

However, he showed enough progress in other areas that we can reasonably expect him to develop into a solid, if not great qb.

By progress I mean:

not fumbling

not holding the ball too long

throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack.

getting the ball to the receivers where they have a chance to make a play.


Specifically, on the long TD to Fitz, josh audibled into that play. He saw Fitz had single coverage, and hoisted it up there where the rook could make a play.

Yeah that was just one play. But come on Cheese. I bet his QB rating was around 85 or 90 today. You've got to take that. You've got to expect the defense and special teams to step up and play better.

Crimson - you're missing my point. I think Josh played pretty well today. He actually made some hot reads - the pass to Jones for the TD was the perfect play - not a great pass - but the right pass. He also put the ball up in the air for Fitz and he did make a nice play on the TD from the two yard line - no doubt.

However - I think that learning all the above is just as important as leadership from the QB and that we just aren't seeing at the end of games. He's not learning that part yet and to me - it's a HUGE part of being the QB.

I am not calling for his benching - no where in any post tonight have I called for that. I'm just pointing out my very grave concerns about an intangible that I think is just as important as all the things you mentioned above. This is a board to talk about the Cards and everything they do - so I'm voicing my opinion - that's all.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know. Its your story. I think the whole thing is just too asinine to even get that involved with. I seriously doubt that anything I would say now on the matter would accomplish anything anyway. Its your story....YOU stick to it. I personally think its a silly little fantasy.

Then you are trully delusional my toe tapping friend. I think it's the story of the entire year that we aren't winning close games and to say otherwise is well . . . Amazing. Simply Amazing!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Now I'm certainly not a big Tim Ryan and Ron Pitts fan, although they are better, in my book, than the other ultimate bozos we usually get for the Card games, Tim Ryan and Curt Menafee.

They were such obvious niner homers.

But even they did comment late in the game how Josh seemed to be "getting It" ...to use their words.
And learning to look for a receiver in the vacated spot left by a blitzer.

 

[Toro]

Wow... I am surprised by all the Josh bashing.

He put 28 points on the board, no fumbles, one int (it was tipped).

The only complaint I have about Josh is that he is not throwing to the WR to can get YAC. Maybe a WR who can do this is not open but I would guess that one of the WR is open enough to get some YAC.

King is not the solution. Drafting a shutdown CB and signing S. Alexander as a free agent works for me.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Crimson - you're missing my point. I think Josh played pretty well today. He actually made some hot reads - the pass to Jones for the TD was the perfect play - not a great pass - but the right pass. He also put the ball up in the air for Fitz and he did make a nice play on the TD from the two yard line - no doubt.

However - I think that learning all the above is just as important as leadership from the QB and that we just aren't seeing at the end of games. He's not learning that part yet and to me - it's a HUGE part of being the QB.

I am not calling for his benching - no where in any post tonight have I called for that. I'm just pointing out my very grave concerns about an intangible that I think is just as important as all the things you mentioned above. This is a board to talk about the Cards and everything they do - so I'm voicing my opinion - that's all.

wishy-washy, flip-flop, flip-flop.