The Reality of Josh McCown - and other musings . . .

[Cheesebeef]

I can't believe some people are puytting so much blame on the D.

Up until 7 minutes left in the game - both the defense and the offense had played very well - then BOTH went in the tank. The D gave up a long drive that left them beat. Did the offense come bvack on the field and give them any respite? No they went 3 and out when they could have salted the game away. The defense then goes back on the field and gives up another TD - even worse. The offense then gets the ball back at our own 40 yard line with a timeout and a minute left and what do they do - They get ONE yard - actually - they get nine on the first play - meaning they only need to get about 15 more to get into doable Rackers range and then Josh doesn't recognize a blitz and then almost throws a pick.

That is failure on both sides of the ball - just as there was success on both sides of the ball previous to the last 7 minutes.

The offense, Defense, Coaching Staff and ST all lost this game today. No one played well enough to win because if they did - that means ultimately we would have. Well enough to win means playing well for 4 full quarters - for the first time all year no one on defense did that yesterday, but as has been the case in the other four losses, the offense performed exactly in step with how they have previously.

 

[Rats]

My point is I think the "questionable play calling" is a direct result of coaches not trusting Josh. I think if King were in there, or Blake, or hell Jake Plummer, Green would have been throwing everything including the kitchen sink at them and we'd have had 28 in the first half and blown them off the field.

And yes it's not fair to pick on one play, but if Josh doesn't take that sack on 2nd and 1 because he didn't apparently see a blitz when they had what 18 guys on the line, we probably get the first down and win the game. I'm with Cheese, when the game is on the line and you need a play, he's 0-4 this year.

I would bet the house if Green had it to do over again he wouldn't give Josh the job without a competition.

Russ, I am going to call it like I see it. This is just your agenda of trying to subtley bash Josh. He wouldn't be starting if the coaches didn't think he could get it done. He had a solid game yesterday and your spin that because he didn't get us a 1st down late in the game, the coaches don't trust him is ludicres. He is a young QB. He had a solid game yesterday. He is progressing. Not as fast as some want but he shouldn't be on the bench the way some want either. Cheese said it best....with 6 min to go and up 16 points people on here were going to have to invent reasons the team was bad.....the team didn't play the last 5 minutes. This is a team game and while the QB is the leader....the Defense has to play 60 minutes, the coaches have to coach 60 minutes and the Offense has to play 60 minutes. What they did up until that last 5 minutes I think all would agree was working. Oh and Ben is not the QB here. Why is it that with every loss someone has to bring him up. Get over it. Ben would not have won this game today. The coaches would not have had anymore confidense in him than McCown. They all are to blame not just Josh McCown. Get real.

 

[AZCB34]

I can't believe some people are puytting so much blame on the D.

Up until 7 minutes left in the game - both the defense and the offense had played very well - then BOTH went in the tank. The D gave up a long drive that left them beat. Did the offense come bvack on the field and give them any respite? No they went 3 and out when they could have salted the game away. The defense then goes back on the field and gives up another TD - even worse. The offense then gets the ball back at our own 40 yard line with a timeout and a minute left and what do they do - They get ONE yard - actually - they get nine on the first play - meaning they only need to get about 15 more to get into doable Rackers range and then Josh doesn't recognize a blitz and then almost throws a pick.

That is failure on both sides of the ball - just as there was success on both sides of the ball previous to the last 7 minutes.

The offense, Defense, Coaching Staff and ST all lost this game today. No one played well enough to win because if they did - that means ultimately we would have. Well enough to win means playing well for 4 full quarters - for the first time all year no one on defense did that yesterday, but as has been the case in the other four losses, the offense performed exactly in step with how they have previously.

Actually though, judging from alot of the posts, it is all Josh's fault. I have seen more blame heaped on Josh from what I have read thus far than the defense or ST...or even (gasp) the coaches. I am thinking Green should cut him and install King as undisputed starter during the bye week. If you think the offense performed exactly as they have previously than McCown should be cut (why bother benching him...I mean he isn't really a Greenite so we have little use for him and his bumbling ways) because if you saw nothing better this week than the previous 4 weeks than maybe McCown really does suck and we should be what 4-1 with King in place? Sound good? It will solve all the problems with McCown (although I am sure he will be blamed from this point for us missing the playoffs) and get the Cards right back on track.

How does that sound?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually though, judging from alot of the posts, it is all Josh's fault. I have seen more blame heaped on Josh from what I have read thus far than the defense or ST...or even (gasp) the coaches. I am thinking Green should cut him and install King as undisputed starter during the bye week. If you think the offense performed exactly as they have previously than McCown should be cut (why bother benching him...I mean he isn't really a Greenite so we have little use for him and his bumbling ways) because if you saw nothing better this week than the previous 4 weeks than maybe McCown really does suck and we should be what 4-1 with King in place? Sound good? It will solve all the problems with McCown (although I am sure he will be blamed from this point for us missing the playoffs) and get the Cards right back on track.

How does that sound?

Jeez Cubby - I'd expect something like this from Tango, but not from you. You're hatred of Dennis Green is clouding everything here man.

The reason my posts and probably others come off as such bashing Josh is that this is the fourth striaght close game we've lost with him at the helm. The D finally broke down and I think people's heads are still spinning over that one and basically giving them a break because they have played so well over the course of the first five games. But Josh is getting a hard time because his inability to get anything doen late in the fourth quarter has been the ONE CONSTANT in every close game and Emmitt and Hambrick were the reasons we anhilated NO last week.

You can say I hate Josh all you want and that I am predisposed to hate this kid for whatever reason you can come up with, but I'll let this peak for itself:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36357

Notice the thread title: Josh McCown is the Answer!

Sure does read like I have predisposed hate towards this kid. Good lord people - leadership is proved on the field - not in the offseason, not in the preseason(duped again on my part) - but on the field - specifically in the fourth quarter of tough ball games.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the first place, the simplest answer is....I just don't think its worth the time and effort to do so. I consider your post mostly your own little rant not even serious enough to spend the futile effort of arguing with you over it.

And as to being so often wrong...I'll match my record against yours any day of the week.

forgetting about the personal digs here, you don't think his post is worth the time to respond to but you do think it's worthwhile to bait me and slam him. what a humanitarian you are.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

\

Are you drunk? or on drugs right now?

Maybe you better come back when your sober/straight.

cheese, i say only come back sober if tango agrees to come back friendly and intelligent.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know. Its your story. I think the whole thing is just too asinine to even get that involved with. I seriously doubt that anything I would say now on the matter would accomplish anything anyway. Its your story....YOU stick to it. I personally think its a silly little fantasy.

you take the time to respond and be mean-spirited, why don't you use some of that energy to respond to the actual FOOTBALL issue? do you have an argument or is it just that you have to disagree with cheese (and me) everytime we say anything?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cheese it sounds like you want a guy that looked like McCown the first three Qtrs but plays like Plummer in the last half of the 4th?????

frightening as it may seem, that's exactly what i want. asking too much?

 

[SECTION 11]

Ouchie, I don't know if you've heard or not, but you have to be at least 60 years old for your opinion to be valid.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, I am going to call it like I see it. This is just your agenda of trying to subtley bash Josh. He wouldn't be starting if the coaches didn't think he could get it done. He had a solid game yesterday and your spin that because he didn't get us a 1st down late in the game, the coaches don't trust him is ludicres. He is a young QB. He had a solid game yesterday. He is progressing. Not as fast as some want but he shouldn't be on the bench the way some want either. Cheese said it best....with 6 min to go and up 16 points people on here were going to have to invent reasons the team was bad.....the team didn't play the last 5 minutes. This is a team game and while the QB is the leader....the Defense has to play 60 minutes, the coaches have to coach 60 minutes and the Offense has to play 60 minutes. What they did up until that last 5 minutes I think all would agree was working. Oh and Ben is not the QB here. Why is it that with every loss someone has to bring him up. Get over it. Ben would not have won this game today. The coaches would not have had anymore confidense in him than McCown. They all are to blame not just Josh McCown. Get real.

Apparently you missed my post at HALFTIME yesterday where I said this game is officially scaring me? In that post I said I don't understand why we're not throwing the ball downfield, and over the middle more, they have no pass rush, everything is man coverage because of all the blitzing, but we're still trying to run the ball. I don't think Green trusts Josh. I wrote that BEFORE the meltdown this is not some theory to explain away a mind numbing loss it's what was driving me nuts in the first half when we were ahead 14-6.

That game should have been over at the half, when Peterson went down you could see the SF team deflate, Ulbrich admitted it in the postgame he said it took them until the 4th quarter to get their 2nd wind after Peterson's injury.

I've said all along if anybody but Green were not the coach I'd never have shut up about not drafting or signing a better QB. I trusted Green could get play out of Josh, I'm no longer so sure he can.

I also said several times today that if we had Ben, he wouldn't have anybody to throw to with Quan out and Fitz playing somewhere else.

I didn't say the sack on 2nd and 1 was a sign of not trusting him, hell if it was he'd have run the ball there. That was the REAL Green at work, I'd bet the farm he called that play himself that is vintage Dennis Green. 2nd and 1, running out the clock, defense expecting the run, throw the ball and make a big play.

I'm talking about the first half when Josh repeatedly made one read, and then threw the ball away. If Green wasn't telling him to do that, he'd have been all over him for it, that was clearly him being coached to make one read and then run or throw it away as a response to all the fumbles and sacks from holding the ball too long. You don't tell a guy you trust to do that, you tell him to make the reads faster.

I HOPE Green is right about Josh, I've never been able to put behind me the idea that this kid had to transfer DOWN in college to put up any kind of numbers. THat the coaching staff at SMU was so high on this kid that they changed their entire offense from pro style passing to running the option and that's why Josh says he transferred. To me that said nobody there felt he could run the pro style offense, they knew he was fast, their other Qb's were probably runners, so they figured run the ball.

hiring Green I felt gave Josh a chance, QB friendly system, great potential at WR, maybe Green can cover his weaknesses and he'll develop.

We won't know until the season is over Green is never going to come out and say I don't trust the guy, minute he does he's done as QB. Look at what it took for him to overcome Graves comments about how nervous he gets in the huddle?

But so you can't say I didn't take a stand, my take is Green won't decide to keep Josh beyond this season as his starter, if at all.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The only ones blasting the QB play of Josh McCown are the same ones that have blasted Josh consistantly ever since Draft day or the day Green named him our starter. It is a huge stretch on anyones part to say that after Josh put up 28 pts yesterday and managed the game late into the 4th qt that he is to blame for this crushing defeat. What people will say and do to support there position is the ultimate of spin. Josh didn't get a late drive for a score and failed to get a 1st down to ice the game but he also didn't put us down by 21 right out of the gate and he didn't Turnover the ball all day. Is he the perfect QB? No. Does he have great potential? Yes. Is he DG QB for the foreseable future? Yes. Work in progress means Work in progress not We have arrived. Up by 16 we all thought we had arrived myself included. The D wore down and gave the game away. I bet they will all see it that way. We should to.

nice overgeneralization. i was not one clamoring for josh's head in the past. when denny named him starter i thought, "wow, surprised, but okay, let's see what the kid's got!" and we're not basing all this talk on this SINGLE game, and we're NOT placing the ENTIRE loss at his feet. read what people are writing man! we're talking about the way he folds up at the end of games instead of once in a while (and i'm talking more than once in 8 games) taking over and making the play or successfully leading the team to a w in a winnable game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So it is Josh's fault? Doesn;t he run the plays called from the sidelines?

Cheesie, I really am confused by this thread because in a game context, Josh did everything he was supposed to to help the team win. You picking a couple of plays late is petty IMO only because it was a total collapse of the defense (well actually it was the defense playing at their actual talent level...finally exposed as over-achieving for the first 4 games) and some strange play calling offensively in the 4th Q that was the REAL culprit for this loss. I see very little calling out of Green, Wood and Pendergast for the BS yesterday. Maybe Green/Wood/Hargrave should be held accountable for the weak play calling in the 4th Q?

I think it is amazing Josh is basically being blamed across this board when he did exactly what every fan hopes from their QB in a 4 quarter big picture. Did he makes some mistakes? Of course but the single him out like he has been on this board is pathetic.

Cheese, one thing I agree whole-heartedly with you on is you could tell alot of the team went onto cruise control in the 4th thinking it was in the bag. For a team that hasn;t won alot, this is a valuable lesson about playing the entire game and never taking any opponent for granted. They now have a case study to learn from in how to close out the game

you people just aren't reading if you think cheese's comments are about this one game or about blaming this loss on josh.

 

[Rats]

Apparently you missed my post at HALFTIME yesterday where I said this game is officially scaring me? In that post I said I don't understand why we're not throwing the ball downfield, and over the middle more, they have no pass rush, everything is man coverage because of all the blitzing, but we're still trying to run the ball. I don't think Green trusts Josh. I wrote that BEFORE the meltdown this is not some theory to explain away a mind numbing loss it's what was driving me nuts in the first half when we were ahead 14-6.

That game should have been over at the half, when Peterson went down you could see the SF team deflate, Ulbrich admitted it in the postgame he said it took them until the 4th quarter to get their 2nd wind after Peterson's injury.

I've said all along if anybody but Green were not the coach I'd never have shut up about not drafting or signing a better QB. I trusted Green could get play out of Josh, I'm no longer so sure he can.

I also said several times today that if we had Ben, he wouldn't have anybody to throw to with Quan out and Fitz playing somewhere else.

I didn't say the sack on 2nd and 1 was a sign of not trusting him, hell if it was he'd have run the ball there. That was the REAL Green at work, I'd bet the farm he called that play himself that is vintage Dennis Green. 2nd and 1, running out the clock, defense expecting the run, throw the ball and make a big play.

I'm talking about the first half when Josh repeatedly made one read, and then threw the ball away. If Green wasn't telling him to do that, he'd have been all over him for it, that was clearly him being coached to make one read and then run or throw it away as a response to all the fumbles and sacks from holding the ball too long. You don't tell a guy you trust to do that, you tell him to make the reads faster.

I HOPE Green is right about Josh, I've never been able to put behind me the idea that this kid had to transfer DOWN in college to put up any kind of numbers. THat the coaching staff at SMU was so high on this kid that they changed their entire offense from pro style passing to running the option and that's why Josh says he transferred. To me that said nobody there felt he could run the pro style offense, they knew he was fast, their other Qb's were probably runners, so they figured run the ball.

hiring Green I felt gave Josh a chance, QB friendly system, great potential at WR, maybe Green can cover his weaknesses and he'll develop.

We won't know until the season is over Green is never going to come out and say I don't trust the guy, minute he does he's done as QB. Look at what it took for him to overcome Graves comments about how nervous he gets in the huddle?

But so you can't say I didn't take a stand, my take is Green won't decide to keep Josh beyond this season as his starter, if at all.

Russ, but your premise has always been that you can't get past not taking a top QB and that Josh was a division 2 guy in over his head. And we did throw the ball in the second half and we scored 14pts. And in the 1st half I suppose you mean when Josh was running for his life after the first read and he had to throw it away. He could not possibly get to his next read with Peterson breathing down his neck. Josh was trusted to get us 14pts in the second half. The team went into a shell with a big lead. Josh does what he is told. Where Plummer was a gunslinger Josh plays with in the syshtem. To say that you can't accept that Green installed Josh and knowing you wanted another QB and to say that well I gave Josh a chance is just silly. Your trying to lay at his feet this stinging loss so you can feel better about your position that Green should have done something else at the QB position. I disagree with that. I always have so I won't talk around it anymore. You can't see the good In Josh because of the disenchantment on Draft day and not getting a Top QB. Not just you ,there are several here that want to make that asertion because that is what they wanted in the Draft. Fine.....just say it with out trying to put this loss on something that is not there....that dog won't hunt my friend.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

My point is I think the "questionable play calling" is a direct result of coaches not trusting Josh. I think if King were in there, or Blake, or hell Jake Plummer, Green would have been throwing everything including the kitchen sink at them and we'd have had 28 in the first half and blown them off the field.

And yes it's not fair to pick on one play, but if Josh doesn't take that sack on 2nd and 1 because he didn't apparently see a blitz when they had what 18 guys on the line, we probably get the first down and win the game. I'm with Cheese, when the game is on the line and you need a play, he's 0-4 this year.

I would bet the house if Green had it to do over again he wouldn't give Josh the job without a competition.

Maybe, but your really guessing.

The bottom line is that we're up sixteen points in the fourth quarter on the road, even after we gave up a punt return for a TD.

Whatever we did for 55 minutes worked like the proverbial charm.

A bad/winless team at home is still dangerous just ask the 2003 version of the vikings or packers.

 

[SECTION 11]

Enough excuses for McCown already.
Good Lord.

Rattay didn't need any excuses, even though he had about 1,000 of them to lean on.
Where was his protection? Where were his receivers? His target was a tight end with injured ribs. His starting back got 30-something yards. He's got Dennis Freaking Erickson calling plays.
That dude had absolutely nothing to work with and he still won.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Enough excuses for McCown already.
Good Lord.

Rattay didn't need any excuses, even though he had about 1,000 of them to lean on.
Where was his protection? Where were his receivers? His target was a tight end with injured ribs. His starting back got 30-something yards. He's got Dennis Freaking Erickson calling plays.
That dude had absolutely nothing to work with and he still won.

wow - if that ain't the bottom line. But hey 11 - after yesterday's game if we ere all Niner fans - I guarantee you Rattay would already be deemed the next Joe Montana by a majority of people here and they'd be talking about his leadership out the ying-yang.

 

[Rats]

you people just aren't reading if you think cheese's comments are about this one game or about blaming this loss on josh.

No but what cheese does say is that we will never win anything of conseqence with Josh at the helm and that he doesn't take control and single handedly win us the game late. If you watched the game at all you would know that a 16 point lead is something you protect late in the game not something that you tell your QB...Hey son go out there and get us another TD, run around and chuck it down there and let your guys make another big play......He did exactly what you are supposed to do with a big lead keep possession of the football. Not take the chance of throwing INT or fumbling by running around. It is amazing that Josh is even being brought up as a reason for the loss. He did alot of good things out there. No running game would be more of a reason than" no one trust Josh" It wasn't a matter of trusting Josh it was a prevent 4th Qter gameplan with a big leadand great execution by the opponant on offense. THe way the D played up till the last 5 minutes and the way the O played up til the last 5 minutes would lead anyone to conclude that you would want to protect a 16pt lead not try and increase it. So don't say that because Josh didn't deliver late in the game that we won't win anything of conseqence with him. That is total opinion and also I might add jaded IMO. He has stepped up his game enough to see that he has potential. He did not make any mistakes yesterday that cost this team the game. He did what he was asked to do others failed at what they were asked to do.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Russ, but your premise has always been that you can't get past not taking a top QB and that Josh was a division 2 guy in over his head. And we did throw the ball in the second half and we scored 14pts. And in the 1st half I suppose you mean when Josh was running for his life after the first read and he had to throw it away. He could not possibly get to his next read with Peterson breathing down his neck. Josh was trusted to get us 14pts in the second half. The team went into a shell with a big lead. Josh does what he is told. Where Plummer was a gunslinger Josh plays with in the syshtem. To say that you can't accept that Green installed Josh and knowing you wanted another QB and to say that well I gave Josh a chance is just silly. Your trying to lay at his feet this stinging loss so you can feel better about your position that Green should have done something else at the QB position. I disagree with that. I always have so I won't talk around it anymore. You can't see the good In Josh because of the disenchantment on Draft day and not getting a Top QB. Not just you ,there are several here that want to make that asertion because that is what they wanted in the Draft. Fine.....just say it with out trying to put this loss on something that is not there....that dog won't hunt my friend.

how 'bout this dog:

the same argument could be made against me. i wanted a qb in the draft. until we hired denny and he put his faith in mccown. at that point i stood firmly behind denny's ability to develop a physically talented qb. i wanted to see mccown succeed. still do. but the evidence that i'm presented with is making me nervous. i don't see the mental toughness. i see a guy who stepped down in competition at the college level, a guy who cried b/c "he just wanted to win so badly" (and it's okay for guys to cry, but cry when you win a superbowl, or when you're coming to the realization that your career is over, not over getting benched b/c you're getting your head handed to you!), a guy who in 8 games has stepped once at crunch time when we needed him. i'm not blaming him for the game. but i would like to think we have a qb that after the defense crumbled would have the intestinal fortitude to charge back onto the field and win us the game. i think josh wants to do that, but i don't think he believes he can. just not quite enough strength of mind and conviction.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Enough excuses for McCown already.
Good Lord.

Rattay didn't need any excuses, even though he had about 1,000 of them to lean on.
Where was his protection? Where were his receivers? His target was a tight end with injured ribs. His starting back got 30-something yards. He's got Dennis Freaking Erickson calling plays.
That dude had absolutely nothing to work with and he still won.

wow. bingo.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No but what cheese does say is that we will never win anything of conseqence with Josh at the helm and that he doesn't take control and single handedly win us the game late. If you watched the game at all you would know that a 16 point lead is something you protect late in the game not something that you tell your QB...Hey son go out there and get us another TD, run around and chuck it down there and let your guys make another big play......He did exactly what you are supposed to do with a big lead keep possession of the football. Not take the chance of throwing INT or fumbling by running around. It is amazing that Josh is even being brought up as a reason for the loss. He did alot of good things out there. No running game would be more of a reason than" no one trust Josh" It wasn't a matter of trusting Josh it was a prevent 4th Qter gameplan with a big leadand great execution by the opponant on offense. THe way the D played up till the last 5 minutes and the way the O played up til the last 5 minutes would lead anyone to conclude that you would want to protect a 16pt lead not try and increase it. So don't say that because Josh didn't deliver late in the game that we won't win anything of conseqence with him. That is total opinion and also I might add jaded IMO. He has stepped up his game enough to see that he has potential. He did not make any mistakes yesterday that cost this team the game. He did what he was asked to do others failed at what they were asked to do.

when we needed a first down he failed. when we were in position, after the score was tied, to have a SHORT march for fg to win it, he failed. he failed in that five minutes along with everyone else.

our thoughts that he won't lead us to anything of consequence are not based on this game alone. why can't anyone acknowledge this fact and try to refute it?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Enough excuses for McCown already.
Good Lord.

Rattay didn't need any excuses, even though he had about 1,000 of them to lean on.
Where was his protection? Where were his receivers? His target was a tight end with injured ribs. His starting back got 30-something yards. He's got Dennis Freaking Erickson calling plays.
That dude had absolutely nothing to work with and he still won.

We have a winner. Best post of the day.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I'll say one thing for the main groupies here.

They do stick together, no matter what.

One pops a brain cell and all the rest do their best little lemming imititations.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No but what cheese does say is that we will never win anything of conseqence with Josh at the helm and that he doesn't take control and single handedly win us the game late. If you watched the game at all you would know that a 16 point lead is something you protect late in the game not something that you tell your QB...Hey son go out there and get us another TD, run around and chuck it down there and let your guys make another big play......He did exactly what you are supposed to do with a big lead keep possession of the football.

This is all such utter horse crap and to think - Rats for someone who has made it known how much they abhor the spinning from the Bushies, you certainly have taken to their sensibilities here.

Can you show me where the hell I said that Josh needs to singlehandedly win ball games for us? I have said - repeatedly - when the game is on the line the QB needs to lead, the QB needs to make big plays, the QB needs to buckle down and get the job done. We have seen 4 games - 4 games in which Josh has been given that opportunity so far this year and he has FAILED TO EVEN GET US PAST THE 50 YARD LINE IN EVERY ONE OF THOSE GAMES - well, everyone of those games that he didn't fumble the ball away inside the opponents 20 yard line - 3 TIMES.

And to me - when you have a lead and a tired D or hell, even a rested D - when given the ball with 5 minutes left - your job isn't simply to protect the ball - YOUR JOB IS TO GET ONE FIRST DOWN - at least. That is "keeping control of the football". Going three and out and taking aminute off the clock is not "keeping control of the football" in anyone world but maybe yours. And then when you do get the ball back with over a minute left at the 40 yard line - your JOB is to pick up a couple of first downs - try and put your team in the position to WIN THE GAME - you know, scoring points - something an offense is supposed to do - we picked up 1 YARD and didn't get past the 50 - as usual.

Josh isn't the sole reason we lost this game - but he sure as hell was a major reason why we didn't win it. And if you think that I'm making this argument because I hate Josh, why don't you read the thread I alluded to on the last page - you know the one where the title is: JOSH MCCOWN IS THE ANSWER!

You're lack of objectivity on the subject is made apparent by your inabaility to understand that my posts aren't about one game - they are about someone's entire history - but hey - if you ignore that history, then you make a good case - whether you like it or not - Karl Rove has taught you well.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, but your premise has always been that you can't get past not taking a top QB and that Josh was a division 2 guy in over his head. And we did throw the ball in the second half and we scored 14pts. And in the 1st half I suppose you mean when Josh was running for his life after the first read and he had to throw it away. He could not possibly get to his next read with Peterson breathing down his neck. Josh was trusted to get us 14pts in the second half. The team went into a shell with a big lead. Josh does what he is told. Where Plummer was a gunslinger Josh plays with in the syshtem. To say that you can't accept that Green installed Josh and knowing you wanted another QB and to say that well I gave Josh a chance is just silly. Your trying to lay at his feet this stinging loss so you can feel better about your position that Green should have done something else at the QB position. I disagree with that. I always have so I won't talk around it anymore. You can't see the good In Josh because of the disenchantment on Draft day and not getting a Top QB. Not just you ,there are several here that want to make that asertion because that is what they wanted in the Draft. Fine.....just say it with out trying to put this loss on something that is not there....that dog won't hunt my friend.

What I said was the game was lost in the first half by not attacking more with the pass. Peterson got hurt in the first quarter, Carter didn't play, if you really are going to say that Josh was running for his life in the first half, while the FOX guys were over and over pointing out how much better the OL looked, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

We should have taken Leftwich 2 drafts ago, I don't blame Josh OR Green for that.

name me another 3rd round QB who transferred DOWN in college and became a solid NFl starting QB? We're not talking about a common occurrence here we're expecting a lot for Josh to become a solid starter.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'll say one thing for the main groupies here.

They do stick together, no matter what.

One pops a brain cell and all the rest do their best little lemming imititations.

i have to admit, i like the use of "lemmings."