The Ringer’s take on the Arizona Cardinals

[DVontel]

Check it out. Good listen. Starts at 12:00.

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[Crimson Warrior]

It's a good listen (started at about 14:00 for me), and pretty fair.

 

[Arz101]

Bidwill is a "poor" owner and doesn't have the resources like Jerry Jones, Kraft etc. And Bidwill got out of Wilks contract last year. Bidwill is not going to pay 5 years of Kliff and Keim contract to not coach him. Plus, even if both are fired, Bidwill may not afford to hire a quality coach who commands 7 million a year on a new 5 year contract..Bidwill will take a leaf out of his family's book and leave the current group for another two years. It is just wins vs business. Business always comes first.

 

[Arz101]

A good possibility is Bidwill will fire Kliff and hire a low pay coach with Keim as GM again.

 

[Zalixar]

A good possibility is Bidwill will fire Kliff and hire a low pay coach with Keim as GM again.

Yep.

Those calling for Kliff's head, they may get exactly what they wish and easily end up in a worse position. If Keim goes, no way the new GM keeps Kliff.

 

[football karma]

A good possibility is Bidwill will fire Kliff and hire a low pay coach with Keim as GM again.

He is already paying Adrian Wilson and Quentin Harris. IF they let go of Keim, he can give whomever gets promoted a decent bump, continue to pay Keim and overall cash out the door increases only modestly.

 

[Arz101]

He is already paying Adrian Wilson and Quentin Harris. IF they let go of Keim, he can give whomever gets promoted a decent bump, continue to pay Keim and overall cash out the door increases only modestly.

Essentially it will be in house. Adrian Wilson may be be good but also comes "cheap". That means current "culture" inside the building continues?

Another serious possibility is Keim moving to an advisor role and A-Dub being GM. That will give a way out for Bidwill. Does that change the rotten culture inside that franchise?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

A good possibility is Bidwill will fire Kliff and hire a low pay coach with Keim as GM again.

Yeah don’t see a way to firing Keim unfortunately.

 

[football karma]

interesting perspective on the contract clause i hadnt considered.

i dont think Bidwill is a "poor" owner -- i think their revenues are pretty NFL average.

IF Mike B wants to make a change, having to eat an extra $5.5mm+ for the next four years on a team that will spend $225mm in player salary in 2023 is not going to make a difference.

think of it this way: $5.5mm is the equivalent of selling 2,500 Club seats for a season.

how many fewer club seats does Mike sell if he insists on rolling out a frustrating 6-11 team for the next couple years because he doesn't want to eat a contract?

if nothing else, a team sells hope to its fans in the offseason: if they finish 6-11 or so and they make no changes -- what is the source of hope to sell against?

 

[football karma]

Adrian Wilson may be be good but also comes "cheap". That means current "culture" inside the building continues?

its a good question. Wilson is his own guy and seems to have a point of view, so i suspect he doesnt always agree with Keim -- but its no guarantee.

James Jones was an internal hire at the Suns and he brought his own perspective / culture.

 

[Stout]

Essentially it will be in house. Adrian Wilson may be be good but also comes "cheap". That means current "culture" inside the building continues?

Another serious possibility is Keim moving to an advisor role and A-Dub being GM. That will give a way out for Bidwill. Does that change the rotten culture inside that franchise?

 

[Shane]

Yea I don’t get the automatic “hiring Adrian Wilson would be a mistake” it certainly could be. But he could absolutely be better too.

 

[Stout]

Essentially it will be in house. Adrian Wilson may be be good but also comes "cheap". That means current "culture" inside the building continues?

Another serious possibility is Keim moving to an advisor role and A-Dub being GM. That will give a way out for Bidwill. Does that change the rotten culture inside that franchise?

Dear God, don't stay in house. Staying in house would be the very definition of insanity.

He is already paying Adrian Wilson and Quentin Harris. IF they let go of Keim, he can give whomever gets promoted a decent bump, continue to pay Keim and overall cash out the door increases only modestly.

We've had an unbroken chain of in-house replacements for what now, decades? How does any reasonably intelligent owner not go, "Gee, DURP, we keep growing our own failures, so maybe I should look outside the franchise." JFC, the ineptitude astounds me.

 

[Stout]

its a good question. Wilson is his own guy and seems to have a point of view, so i suspect he doesnt always agree with Keim -- but its no guarantee.

James Jones was an internal hire at the Suns and he brought his own perspective / culture.

No internal owners. Break the cycle of suckitude, please.

 

[Stout]

Yea I don’t get the automatic “hiring Adrian Wilson would be a mistake” it certainly could be. But he could absolutely be better too.

Keep that same losing culture rolling right along. How many years--DECADES--do we stay internal before the team learns its lesson.

This franchise is broken and inherently flawed. It is screaming for outside perspectives and new blood.

 

[Proximo]

He is already paying Adrian Wilson and Quentin Harris. IF they let go of Keim, he can give whomever gets promoted a decent bump, continue to pay Keim and overall cash out the door increases only modestly.

Yeah.

I 100% see a Vance Joseph promotion, and an Adrian Wilson promotion if any move is made.

He is not going to pay big bucks while still having to pay Keim and Kliff.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah don’t see a way to firing Keim unfortunately.

because we all know how this plays out. Kliff gets fired. Vance becomes HC which enables Keim to stay because Vance is "his guy". Kyler continues to struggle, the team tries to dial it back with him, and everyone is gone in two or three years.

 

[Chopper0080]

Interesting that Burns and Gambo both blame Kyler more than Kliff.

 

[PACardsFan]

Yeah.

I 100% see a Vance Joseph promotion, and an Adrian Wilson promotion if any move is made.

He is not going to pay big bucks while still having to pay Keim and Kliff.

Having watched this franchise make mistake after mistake for my WHOLE life, I agree with Stout. They need to go outside this wretched organization for a GM. Unfortunately, I doubt they will go against the Bidwill doctrine of hiring within. So damn frustrating. Everyone keeps mentioning Wilson. As a former Cardinal, we all love the dude. But, if we stay within, Harris by far would be the better choice.

 

[PACardsFan]

Interesting that Burns and Gambo both blame Kyler more than Kliff.

Sorry, but it’s far more complicated to blame one or the other more. I was listening to Baldinger yesterday & he went on and on about Carroll schooling Kliff on Sunday. After some embarrassing defensive efforts, Carroll took complete control of the defense leading up to this game. He’d seen enough of missed assignments & missed tackles. Even changed up the schemes. He said that KK played right into Carroll’s plans & never once even remotely made adjustments. A rolling pocket for Murray was an absolute must & it never happened. Murray had 40 yards rushing called back due to stupid holds, and Moore’s 3rd down drop may have been a 50 yard gain or even a TD. Murray’s not helping himself either. The fumble killed us, but unlike last week, he should have slid earlier than he did. He’s frustrated & has lost some confidence. No one can deny that. Baldy’s biggest take away was how insistent KK has been to NOT adjust to what defenses are doing to him. Baldy said “He appears shellshocked & in over his head right now”. He also said that Cardinal coaches and players alike keep saying that it’s the little things that are holding them back. Baldy said that is code word for a team that has a very low football IQ. And that’s on the GM & coaches more than it’s on any one player.

 

[kerouac9]

It's sad and hilarious that everyone agrees that the weakest link in the chain is Keim and he has the most job security of anyone.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sorry, but it’s far more complicated to blame one or the other more. I was listening to Baldinger yesterday & he went on and on about Carroll schooling Kliff on Sunday. After some embarrassing defensive efforts, Carroll took complete control of the defense leading up to this game. He’d seen enough of missed assignments & missed tackles. Even changed up the schemes. He said that KK played right into Carroll’s plans & never once even remotely made adjustments. A rolling pocket for Murray was an absolute must & it never happened. Murray had 40 yards rushing called back due to stupid holds, and Moore’s 3rd down drop may have been a 50 yard gain or even a TD. Murray’s not helping himself either. The fumble killed us, but unlike last week, he should have slid earlier than he did. He’s frustrated & has lost some confidence. No one can deny that. Baldy’s biggest take away was how insistent KK has been to NOT adjust to what defenses are doing to him. Baldy said “He appears shellshocked & in over his head right now”. He also said that Cardinal coaches and players alike keep saying that it’s the little things that are holding them back. Baldy said that is code word for a team that has a very low football IQ. And that’s on the GM & coaches more than it’s on any one player.

The Cardinals used a rolling pocket vs a 3 man rush when backed up to the goal line and Kyler practically ran into a safety.

 

[football karma]

what i would love to know:

did Keim go to Mike B and recommend / advocate that Kyler get extended AND Kliff get extended (with the unstated implication that if you extend Kliff, you probably have to extend him as well). If so, that could get Keim fired.


what I suspect: that the NFL / Goodell would say to Mike B "it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world if you had a Black General Manager and a HC." just sayin......