elindholm
edited for content
But isn't this board going to take Vogel to task if he isn't "consistent with his rotations"?
The Starting 5
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But isn't this board going to take Vogel to task if he isn't "consistent with his rotations"?
elindholm
edited for content
I really like some of the new additions, but I wouldn't describe the Suns as being particularly deep. Having 15 employees that you can pencil into a depth chart is not the same as having depth.
It will probably take a while to figure out who the real players are, but in the end I expect that we'll see no more than 10 get regular minutes, and even some of those 10 will look like it's questionable whether they belong on the roster of a team with championship aspirations.
It will probably take a while to figure out who the real players are, but in the end I expect that we'll see no more than 10 get regular minutes, and even some of those 10 will look like it's questionable whether they belong on the roster of a team with championship aspirations.
BirdGangThing
Cultist
I've seen it mentioned as long as we have two of our big three available we'll still have a chance at beating anybody - and when all three are in we probably should beat anybody
I think the same goes for line ups - I mean sure we can label two other players as starters but as soon as the game starts all bets are off
Instead of having two traditional separate line ups - we can afford to keep at least two of our big three on the court - most of the time - which is crazy awesome because our bench has also significantly improved - rebounds and sharp shooters baby
So starters schmarters - I'm more about not sitting/resting Book/KD/Beal at the same time unless we are comfortably ahead on the scoreboard
I think the same goes for line ups - I mean sure we can label two other players as starters but as soon as the game starts all bets are off
Instead of having two traditional separate line ups - we can afford to keep at least two of our big three on the court - most of the time - which is crazy awesome because our bench has also significantly improved - rebounds and sharp shooters baby
So starters schmarters - I'm more about not sitting/resting Book/KD/Beal at the same time unless we are comfortably ahead on the scoreboard
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Imagine him standing in the corner playing catch and shoot instead of what we saw last year.
Inevitably, teams forced the ball there playing 5 guys on our other 4 leaving the corner open for our 5th starter to miss open threes most of the time, and at some key moments. Perhaps next year teams won't be able to leave Yuta open, or get burned if they do, and play Book, KD and Beal more straight up?
Good luck if teams play Booker, Durant and Beal straight up.
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I suddenly realized Yuta reminds me an improved version of Kelly Oubre who can shoot.
JCSunsfan
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Maybe someone. I don't really care about that. You have four starters nailed down. Adjust the fifth based on matchups.
They are buddies which is a big reason why Wata came here
CardsSunsDbacks
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There was also a report before free agency that KD was pushing for the Suns to get Yuta.
Suns_fan69
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Hopefully he is less of a black hole than Oubre. The offense consistenly got swallowed up by the black hole that is Oubre Jr.
JCSunsfan
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He is a significantly better shooter.
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I will always have fond memories Kelly Oubre. He wanted to be a Sun when they were not a player destination.
IMO, he helped turn the team around. He was part of the trade that brought Chris Paul to Phoenix.
Suns_fan69
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Absolutely. Him and Tyler Johnson were part of the soft culture reset that started the turnaround.
Valley Boyz
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It IS going to be a battle for that fourth/fifth spot assuming we have Ayton, Beal, Booker, and KD starting. We have guys that can step up and get that role, where last year we only had two options, Okogie or Craig. So in that way we did get better. Plus Beal at this stage of his career is better than CP3 which is a major upgrade in itself. This is going to be a great problem to have in that we don't know who that fifth starter is because of competition, where last year it was who can we get to play above their ceiling to fill in. Totally different way we are approaching that spot, imho.
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
We were just talking about how this has been a slow roll to where we are now. When Booker was drafted that planted the seed. When Monty got here, and partially Oubre, the culture changed. When CP3 decided he wanted to be here it raised us up another level. Then Matt came and supercharged the Suns as a destination by trading for KD. Now Beal has essentially took us from fourth gear to fifth. Now even NBA players are jumping on the bandwagon and coming here over different destinations. It was a long journey to now, but sometimes it's the journey that makes the destination appreciated all the more.
Book
Beale
KD
Diop
Ayton
I see Goodwin and Okogie battling it out for minutes.
Eubanks is the obvious backup center imo.
I’m torn between Wata and KBD starting but I think KBD gets because he’s more cerebral on both sides of the floor.
I think Metu and Eubanks can play together at the same time.
I think both Lee’s kick the tires this year.
Payne
Gordon
Wata
Metu
Eubanks
Gordon can go get his, Metu can create his own the most out of our new bigs. Eubanks passing is underrated and will see some new light here. Payne gives us some on the ball pressure, quickness and energy. Goodwin will come in for energy and defense as needed.
Okogie
Lee’s
Ish
Rookie
Will all see limited minutes.
Beale
KD
Diop
Ayton
I see Goodwin and Okogie battling it out for minutes.
Eubanks is the obvious backup center imo.
I’m torn between Wata and KBD starting but I think KBD gets because he’s more cerebral on both sides of the floor.
I think Metu and Eubanks can play together at the same time.
I think both Lee’s kick the tires this year.
Payne
Gordon
Wata
Metu
Eubanks
Gordon can go get his, Metu can create his own the most out of our new bigs. Eubanks passing is underrated and will see some new light here. Payne gives us some on the ball pressure, quickness and energy. Goodwin will come in for energy and defense as needed.
Okogie
Lee’s
Ish
Rookie
Will all see limited minutes.
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Phrazbit
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Oubre was fun and he brought a sense of swagger to the team, but that dude is his own worst enemy.
He throws so many possessions away on both ends.
If he went 3 or so plays without touching the ball on offense, you knew, the next time he got the ball he isn't letting it go without shooting, be it a 30 footer or a wild running layup, he is taking a shot.
On defense, he could play on ball pretty well, but if his man didn't have the ball he would gamble the passing lanes as bad as I have ever seen at the pro level. He allowed easy layups or 3 point shots because he left his man alone constantly.
The guy has a skill level on par with a lot of guys who are making huge money, but his own hunt for highlights is destroying his career.
He throws so many possessions away on both ends.
If he went 3 or so plays without touching the ball on offense, you knew, the next time he got the ball he isn't letting it go without shooting, be it a 30 footer or a wild running layup, he is taking a shot.
On defense, he could play on ball pretty well, but if his man didn't have the ball he would gamble the passing lanes as bad as I have ever seen at the pro level. He allowed easy layups or 3 point shots because he left his man alone constantly.
The guy has a skill level on par with a lot of guys who are making huge money, but his own hunt for highlights is destroying his career.
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I was so glad to get rid of Trevor Ariza in the trade for Kelly Oubre. It was a breath of fresh air for the franchise. IMO, it was the start of the Suns turnaround.
I can't help but wonder how Dillon Brooks would have developed in Phoenix if there was not a mix-up on players.
As much as I wish we never signed Ariza, I think it was necessary. I don't say that because of the trades that came from it but we were always signing over the hill veterans miscast as starters or stars to form a patchwork team that might compete for the 8th seed and made it appear Sarver was trying. Tyson Chandler, Luis Scola, Trevor Ariza, etc. This time it blew up in our face as he showed no professionalism and openly mocked the franchise. It was what needed to happen to fully embrace a proper rebuild as we could finally tear it down completely and build it back up.
Don't get me wrong, Ariza is still garbage and one of my least favorite Suns ever but I'm glad McD made that blunder.
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Ariza behaved poorly but we weren't without blame. And the knowledge leaking out from him about the substandard facilites and amenities probably had a lot to do with paving the way for the new practice facility.
JCSunsfan
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Ariza was the low point.
However, Ariza complaining about the facilities got Sarver's attention. I think at that moment he finally got how he was perceived around the league as a horrible cheapskate. He began work on the training facility and spending money. But it was too late for him.
However, Ariza complaining about the facilities got Sarver's attention. I think at that moment he finally got how he was perceived around the league as a horrible cheapskate. He began work on the training facility and spending money. But it was too late for him.
And now the training facility is a hot bed of activity. I think it helps that it's in the Biltmore area also as a number of Suns players live down there or in Paradise Valley so it's a short trip to get there. I'd imagine that's a big selling point for our prospective players.
Proximo
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Ariza was a turning point, and we flipped him to Oubre, which we flipped into CP3, and as you pointed out I think he got the training facility built. His signing was actually huge in moving the team forward.
I partially blame Ariza for Josh Jackson as well. JJ had a running blog on Grantland, I believe, and he talked about how Ariza was his veteran who showed him the ropes. Of course we all know how Josh turned out. He had talent too but he wasn't dedicated to the game. Makes me wonder how he could have turned out if he had a real professional, and professional team, to guide and shape him.
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I've often thought James Jones might have risked drafting Tyrese Haliburton if he didn't have plans in the works to trade for Chris Paul.
Funny how one factor can affect the whole structure.
