The Suns r preparing to lose Amare (report)

[Covert Rain]

You know... you never cease to amaze me with your BS digs at me. My point was that you traded for a guy who was completely opposite of what the team was made of. I understand your trading Marion because he was a cancer etc. He may have been getting beat on D but regardless, he was still yout best defender. You could have gotten a player for Marion that better fit your style. You didn't. You went for Shaq. It takes years to retool around a player that completely changes your system. There was no indication Shaq was going to turn it around like he has this year and clearly he is on his last years anyway. Therefore trading for Shaq with no clear plan to quickly build around him was a huge mistake...

and your record and decline into the irrelevant prove it!


...and it has nothing to do with my dislike of Shaq. Facts are facts.

Geeeeeez... you are sure defensive when anything is said about Shaq. I even posted that he's played great but i still think it wasn't the best trade due to the team you had. Im not alone in that view you kinow. Maybe you should stop sniffing Shaq's jock and hand it back to Andrew and take an objective look at how you have gone from a contender to lottery team in a years time. Just because Shaq has been your best player for the year so far doesn't make the trade a good one. What a tool...

Oh please give it up. Your so anti Shaq you find an excuse to bash anything related to Shaq. Your so transparent. So, let me get this straight...your a Laker fan, coming on a Suns board, have made no secret of your distaste for Shaq, have gone out of your way to bash Shaq several times......oh....and we are to believe, your evaluation of the Shaq trade was objective???

LMAO. Your the poster child for TOOL.

This teams problems are not the trade for Shaq. Less you forget this team was playing extremely inconsistent BEFORE the Shaq trade when we still had Marion. So, at least have some knowledge about the team before you go popping off about how good or bad a trade was. The reason the trade took place is because the team was headed south already. If we still had Marion things would look no different.

So your comments are either from a place of total ignorance of this team or you are just reaffirming what we already know....and that's your the real tool around here.

 

[Blackification]

How Amare has no self respect, he is mailing it in right now

Amar'e mailed it in a while ago, the whole team is mailing it in right now.

 

[Chaplin]

Oh please give it up. Your so anti Shaq you find an excuse to bash anything related to Shaq. Your so transparent. So, let me get this straight...your a Laker fan, coming on a Suns board, have made no secret of your distaste for Shaq, have gone out of your way to bash Shaq several times......oh....and we are to believe, your evaluation of the Shaq trade was objective???

LMAO. Your the poster child for TOOL.

This teams problems are not the trade for Shaq. Less you forget this team was playing extremely inconsistent BEFORE the Shaq trade when we still had Marion. So, at least have some knowledge about the team before you go popping off about how good or bad a trade was. The reason the trade took place is because the team was headed south already. If we still had Marion things would look no different.

So your comments are either from a place of total ignorance of this team or you are just reaffirming what we already know....and that's your the real tool around here.

He's a Laker fan that's pretending to know the ins and outs of a rival team. I don't know why everyone keeps responding to him--he's obviously a troll, and he knows it. But he gets a rise out of people, so he's having his fun.

 

[cobbler]

Correct...I have never disguised my distaste for Shaq. That doesn't mean I cannot be objective. I have said many times that he is having a very good year. Correct again, I am a Laker fan. Gold star for you. I am also a Nash fan and have been since his Santa Clara days. I got to meet Amare during the FIBA games in Vegas two summers ago and came to the site to talk ball and banter with you Suns fans. So what? You can’t take a little heat for a Laker fan? Do I hurt your feelings? Make you mad? Awwwwww.

So let’s look at your comments about pre and post trade since you claim I have no knowledge.

Prior to the trade the Suns were 34-14 (.701) and in first place in the west. Yes, that is even without KT and JR. Go figure. Yes, Marion was complaining... but hey Mr. knowledgeable... you were leading the conference regardless how inconsistent you say the team was playing. The trade was not made because you were inconsistent, it was made as a kneejerk reaction to the Lakers obtaining Gasol and your managements realizing you didn’t have the height to contend. So you went for the Shaq trade. My contention is you should have pursued big men that would fit in to the up tempo style better than an aging Shaq. Also a big that plays better defense would have helped since you lost your best perimeter defender. Shaq has never been a great defender.

Post trade your record was 21-13 (.617) for the remainder of the year. That is a significant drop off. Is it Shaq’s fault? No. It’s a change in style. This year... your record is 23-18 (.561). Is it Shaq’s fault? No, he has been playing very good this year. But clearly there is a divide in the team with respect to the playing style and coach. The coach’s style favors what suits Shaq’s game. Even a moron like you can see that I would hope. Is that Shaq’s fault? No. It’s your management’s fault. Can you not see that many players on your team want to still play an up tempo game and that style suits their skills better? Sure they were ok with Shaq being the 2nd option but he came back stronger this year and now you have key players that simply will not buy in to the half court post game as the primary style. Is it Shaq’s fault? No.

But clearly… bringing Shaq in and completely changing the style with which you play has taken your team from 1st in the west to 9th. Your winning percentage has gone from .701 to .561. Any way you slice it, your team has gone from a top 5 team in the league prior to the trade to one that will not even be in the top 10 after it. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the trade has not worked out. I am not the only one who sees it either. The majority of analysts have said the very same thing. So you go on believing that simply because Shaq has had a good year and been playing better than anticipated that it was a good trade for the overall “team” and it’s future.

Your team’s record and the attitude of your core group of players prove otherwise.

 

[cobbler]

He's a Laker fan that's pretending to know the ins and outs of a rival team. I don't know why everyone keeps responding to him--he's obviously a troll, and he knows it. But he gets a rise out of people, so he's having his fun.

This... comming from a guy responding. Oh the irony!

And the obligatory "troll" comment simply because someone who's a fan of another team doesn't share your opinion. How creative of you!

 

[shazaam6]

Correct...I have never disguised my distaste for Shaq. That doesn't mean I cannot be objective. I have said many times that he is having a very good year. Correct again, I am a Laker fan. Gold star for you. I am also a Nash fan and have been since his Santa Clara days. I got to meet Amare during the FIBA games in Vegas two summers ago and came to the site to talk ball and banter with you Suns fans. So what? You can’t take a little heat for a Laker fan? Do I hurt your feelings? Make you mad? Awwwwww.

So let’s look at your comments about pre and post trade since you claim I have no knowledge.

Prior to the trade the Suns were 34-14 (.701) and in first place in the west. Yes, that is even without KT and JR. Go figure. Yes, Marion was complaining... but hey Mr. knowledgeable... you were leading the conference regardless how inconsistent you say the team was playing. The trade was not made because you were inconsistent, it was made as a kneejerk reaction to the Lakers obtaining Gasol and your managements realizing you didn’t have the height to contend. So you went for the Shaq trade. My contention is you should have pursued big men that would fit in to the up tempo style better than an aging Shaq. Also a big that plays better defense would have helped since you lost your best perimeter defender. Shaq has never been a great defender.

Post trade your record was 21-13 (.617) for the remainder of the year. That is a significant drop off. Is it Shaq’s fault? No. It’s a change in style. This year... your record is 23-18 (.561). Is it Shaq’s fault? No, he has been playing very good this year. But clearly there is a divide in the team with respect to the playing style and coach. The coach’s style favors what suits Shaq’s game. Even a moron like you can see that I would hope. Is that Shaq’s fault? No. It’s your management’s fault. Can you not see that many players on your team want to still play an up tempo game and that style suits their skills better? Sure they were ok with Shaq being the 2nd option but he came back stronger this year and now you have key players that simply will not buy in to the half court post game as the primary style. Is it Shaq’s fault? No.

But clearly… bringing Shaq in and completely changing the style with which you play has taken your team from 1st in the west to 9th. Your winning percentage has gone from .701 to .561. Any way you slice it, your team has gone from a top 5 team in the league prior to the trade to one that will not even be in the top 10 after it. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the trade has not worked out. I am not the only one who sees it either. The majority of analysts have said the very same thing. So you go on believing that simply because Shaq has had a good year and been playing better than anticipated that it was a good trade for the overall “team” and it’s future.

Your team’s record and the attitude of your core group of players prove otherwise.

Not bad.

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I think the bold statement is the key. Remember last year when Shaq said he was here to help Amare, "The Amare Stoudemire Project" he called it. http://dimemag.com/2008/02/the-amare-stoudemire-project/
I bet he thought his days of 25 pts and 15 rebounds were over. Well the Suns trainers helped Shaq recover so well that he feels he can be the main option again. Remember when he had a good game and said if I get the ball that is what you can expect? Porter has been running the offense through Shaq and he has done well but at the expense of the strength and identity of the rest of the team. Is it a coincidence that Nash and Amare look bad trying to play this way? It is not their game anymore.

I think Shaq is great to have but we can't make his game our first option on offense. We need to crank up the speed and get D'antoni's offense back. Shaq is reliable and we can go to him whenever but we need speed.

 

[sunsallday]

Correct...I have never disguised my distaste for Shaq. That doesn't mean I cannot be objective. I have said many times that he is having a very good year. Correct again, I am a Laker fan. Gold star for you. I am also a Nash fan and have been since his Santa Clara days. I got to meet Amare during the FIBA games in Vegas two summers ago and came to the site to talk ball and banter with you Suns fans. So what? You can’t take a little heat for a Laker fan? Do I hurt your feelings? Make you mad? Awwwwww.

So let’s look at your comments about pre and post trade since you claim I have no knowledge.

Prior to the trade the Suns were 34-14 (.701) and in first place in the west. Yes, that is even without KT and JR. Go figure. Yes, Marion was complaining... but hey Mr. knowledgeable... you were leading the conference regardless how inconsistent you say the team was playing. The trade was not made because you were inconsistent, it was made as a kneejerk reaction to the Lakers obtaining Gasol and your managements realizing you didn’t have the height to contend. So you went for the Shaq trade. My contention is you should have pursued big men that would fit in to the up tempo style better than an aging Shaq. Also a big that plays better defense would have helped since you lost your best perimeter defender. Shaq has never been a great defender.

Post trade your record was 21-13 (.617) for the remainder of the year. That is a significant drop off. Is it Shaq’s fault? No. It’s a change in style. This year... your record is 23-18 (.561). Is it Shaq’s fault? No, he has been playing very good this year. But clearly there is a divide in the team with respect to the playing style and coach. The coach’s style favors what suits Shaq’s game. Even a moron like you can see that I would hope. Is that Shaq’s fault? No. It’s your management’s fault. Can you not see that many players on your team want to still play an up tempo game and that style suits their skills better? Sure they were ok with Shaq being the 2nd option but he came back stronger this year and now you have key players that simply will not buy in to the half court post game as the primary style. Is it Shaq’s fault? No.

But clearly… bringing Shaq in and completely changing the style with which you play has taken your team from 1st in the west to 9th. Your winning percentage has gone from .701 to .561. Any way you slice it, your team has gone from a top 5 team in the league prior to the trade to one that will not even be in the top 10 after it. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the trade has not worked out. I am not the only one who sees it either. The majority of analysts have said the very same thing. So you go on believing that simply because Shaq has had a good year and been playing better than anticipated that it was a good trade for the overall “team” and it’s future.

Your team’s record and the attitude of your core group of players prove otherwise.

I hate the Lakers(I like watching Kobe and he is fun to watch), but you are 100% right. This team is ****ed and we are not going anywhere. Our front office did make a knee jerk decision We could have tried to pursue a defensive rebounding machine in Camby but instead we got an aging Shaq who cannot guard the pick and roll if his life depended on it.

Dantoni was a great coach, but he had some flaws. However, I believe the front office and Dantoni could of had an agreement. Rebounding and defending a little bit better. Getting a solid big man coach for Amare to at least try to help with his defense and boosting our bench. Sadly it is too late and the Suns are ****ed.

 

[Covert Rain]

He's a Laker fan that's pretending to know the ins and outs of a rival team. I don't know why everyone keeps responding to him--he's obviously a troll, and he knows it. But he gets a rise out of people, so he's having his fun.

Cobbler rants and rants on trying to convince everyone under the Sun that he is objective. Then tries to throw random facts out there to "pretend" he knows jack. Because if he did, he would know that Marions numbers were down. His defense didn't look good and the Suns at the time were the #1 worst team in the NBA at protecting the paint. The objective of the trade was to shore up paint defense. Anything else you got out of Shaq was a bonus. D'Antoni, Nash and just about everyone agreed this team had no chance without interior defense.

H is the Poster child for being Troll and a Tool. Go figure.

 

[cobbler]

Cobbler rants and rants on trying to convince everyone under the Sun that he is objective. Then tries to throw random facts out there to "pretend" he knows jack. Because if he did, he would know that Marions numbers were down. His defense didn't look good and the Suns at the time were the #1 worst team in the NBA at protecting the paint. The objective of the trade was to shore up paint defense. Anything else you got out of Shaq was a bonus. D'Antoni, Nash and just about everyone agreed this team had no chance without interior defense.

H is the Poster child for being Troll and a Tool. Go figure.

Random facts are... You were 1st in the west pre trade... you fell and haven't got up since. Not to mention your defense only got worse after the trade. Again, when you are shown the facts and I prove your statements incorrect you change lanes. Your comments were that your team was inconsistant and heading south before the trade and my "random fact" showed that you were "inconsistanly" in first place at trade time and you rapidly headed south in the standings after... and your still going. Again, if you actually read my posts with any of the objectivity you claim I lack you wouild see that I in no way said you shouldn't have traded Marion, it's that you should have traded for a big that better fits your overall team style. So the whole reason was to shore up interior D huh? The worst part of the Suns D was with the pick and roll. Marion bailed Nash out regularly. So you get rid of Marion and bring in one of the worst pick and roll defending centers as the cure? Outstaing logic there. How's that working out for ya?

Again, the team is split, your winning % is down dramatically, your defense is much worse, your coach quit, your players have quit on the fans and team due to the conflicting styles, but hey... Shaq is having a good year so let's disregard all the facts and say the trade was BRILLIANT!

Hmmmm, wondering what lane you change to now?

BTW... I don't feel the need to convince anyone, especially a dolt like you, of anything. I simply post my opinions and show the facts that prove your rebutals absurd. That they upset you so much is only a bonus!

 

[DeAnna]

Retool around Shaq? Maybe everyone has forgotten he is 36yrs old! and he gets killed in PnR defense.

I think the team has become too dependent of Shaq so they've gotten lazy (especially Amare).

I noticed in today's ATL game, after Amare committed his 4th turnover, Porter was yelling at him as they came to the sideline. Previous coaching staff coddled him too much; now he's facing reality and having a hard time adjusting and getting motivated.

 

[Mainstreet]

Retool around Shaq? Maybe everyone has forgotten he is 36yrs old! and he gets killed in PnR defense.

I think the team has become too dependent of Shaq so they've gotten lazy (especially Amare).

I noticed in today's ATL game, after Amare committed his 4th turnover, Porter was yelling at him as they came to the sideline. Previous coaching staff coddled him too much; now he's facing reality and having a hard time adjusting and getting motivated.

I'm thinking Shaq may the Suns best chance to win a Championship for quite awhile the way he's playing. Sometimes you have to take your best shot when you get it.

Kurt Warner got the Cardinals to a place few thought they could achieve. Maybe Shaq can get the Suns there too.

 

[Covert Rain]

Random facts are... You were 1st in the west pre trade... you fell and haven't got up since. Not to mention your defense only got worse after the trade. Again, when you are shown the facts and I prove your statements incorrect you change lanes. Your comments were that your team was inconsistant and heading south before the trade and my "random fact" showed that you were "inconsistanly" in first place at trade time and you rapidly headed south in the standings after... and your still going. Again, if you actually read my posts with any of the objectivity you claim I lack you wouild see that I in no way said you shouldn't have traded Marion, it's that you should have traded for a big that better fits your overall team style. So the whole reason was to shore up interior D huh? The worst part of the Suns D was with the pick and roll. Marion bailed Nash out regularly. So you get rid of Marion and bring in one of the worst pick and roll defending centers as the cure? Outstaing logic there. How's that working out for ya?

Again, the team is split, your winning % is down dramatically, your defense is much worse, your coach quit, your players have quit on the fans and team due to the conflicting styles, but hey... Shaq is having a good year so let's disregard all the facts and say the trade was BRILLIANT!

Hmmmm, wondering what lane you change to now?

BTW... I don't feel the need to convince anyone, especially a dolt like you, of anything. I simply post my opinions and show the facts that prove your rebutals absurd. That they upset you so much is only a bonus!

Bwahahahahaha.. If your posts were not so hilariously stupid, I might actually be irritated. I am to busy being entertained by the sheer stupidity of your posts and your weak attempt and convincing anybody of your "objectivity". Honestly, if you actually posted one thing about this team you didn't read I would be amazed. You didn't know that Shawn was playing like crap, you didn't know that the Suns team had a poor record against the NBA elite and you didn't know the Suns had the worst in the paint defense. Your right....your so knowledgeable and objective because you could post the Suns record at the time.

Both media and fans alike were on the Suns as a pretender bandwagon. There were people all over the place saying this team couldn't beat many elite teams in a 7 game series.

By headed south, that meant this team was playing worse defense then the year before. By headed south, means this team was not playing as well as the previous year against good teams. Being the most informed Lakers fan about the Suns...I am really surprised you didn't know that. You must have forgot I am sure.

How much further south could the Suns could go on defense?? Being the absolute worst in the NBA at defending the paint at the time is about as far south as you can get. So, your assessement that the worst part of the Suns defense was the pick and roll shows your lack of knowledge whatsoever. The worst part of the Suns defense was allowing points in the paint period. They couldn't stop layups, posts or pick and rolls.

So how has that worked out for us? The Suns have made a huge leap in defending points in the paint and went from worst in the league to pretty damn good. That was the point of the trade you moron. The Suns could not have predicted the D'Antoni debacle and probably were not banking on Nash and Amare to get worse going into the next year (well maybe Nash) and could not have predicted Raja's horrible play on defense either.

Shaq is not and has never been the problem with this team. The problem with this team is, outside of Shaq, the defensive slide has continued as a team. Outside of Shaq our star PF still can't consistently rebound (pre or post trade). This team is one of the worst in the NBA at turnovers because between Nash, Amare and Barnes....they are turning over the ball at record rates. When two of your core players are playing horrible defense and one of your main bench players accounts for 55% of your teams bench turnovers....that's not on Shaq. Now you factor in a new coach who can't coach....even a blind squirrel can find that nut.

But hey...what I could possibly know over the number one Lakers fan/Shaq hating/objective fan in the world? Watching this team day in and day out versus reading about them is so overrated compared to your "objectivity".

 

[jagu]

Shaq might just elevate his game to a different level and he's one guy who can simply take over. I wish Amare stopped playing like its frigging olympic CURLING and played hard!

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[Bufalay]

Oh please give it up. Your so anti Shaq you find an excuse to bash anything related to Shaq. Your so transparent. So, let me get this straight...your a Laker fan, coming on a Suns board, have made no secret of your distaste for Shaq, have gone out of your way to bash Shaq several times......oh....and we are to believe, your evaluation of the Shaq trade was objective???

LMAO. Your the poster child for TOOL.

This teams problems are not the trade for Shaq. Less you forget this team was playing extremely inconsistent BEFORE the Shaq trade when we still had Marion. So, at least have some knowledge about the team before you go popping off about how good or bad a trade was. The reason the trade took place is because the team was headed south already. If we still had Marion things would look no different.

So your comments are either from a place of total ignorance of this team or you are just reaffirming what we already know....and that's your the real tool around here.

Congrats on setting a new record!

 

[joshstmarie]

Congrats on setting a new record!

OMG he said your instead of you're. get a life.

 

[Covert Rain]

Congrats on setting a new record!

Thanks. First I would like to thank the academy of spelling and grammar ..... . My bad, I thought this was a sports board not the spelling and grammar board. In fact, maybe you should avoid using slang like "congrats" or you might have to comment on yourself.

 

[Bufalay]

Thanks. First I would like to thank the academy of spelling and grammar ..... . My bad, I thought this was a sports board not the spelling and grammar board. In fact, maybe you should avoid using slang like "congrats" or you might have to comment on yourself.

my badz LOL your write i shud more cooler.

 

[Yuma]

Amare will never get the max deal until he learns to play D, like a Garnett, or Tim Duncan. It's in his own best interest to learn the lunch box mentality.

 

[Covert Rain]

my badz LOL your write i shud more cooler.

noWON will EvR be Kooler then ute.

 

[Bufalay]

noWON will EvR be Kooler then ute.

Sorry if you take offense to me correcting you, but I've seen "your" misused and corrected so many times on this board that it almost seemed like you were doing it to be funny.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sorry if you take offense to me correcting you, but I've seen "your" misused and corrected so many times on this board that it almost seemed like you were doing it to be funny.

And I thought you were critiquing out of the kindness of your heart. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Ninjafish]

i'm going to save the majority of my words to prove my point and cut right to the chase . . . you're an idiot if you think the trade was a bad one. i'm done here.

Posts like this should be bannable. Cobbler is providing very good arguments whether you agree with him or not. He's actually one of the few people in this thread that is. It's not clear cut either way on if we were better pre trade or better post trade. (It's true that we were #1 pre trade, but we had a very easy schedule) We were not particularly good pre trade, but in case you haven't noticed, we have never been particularly good post trade either.

 

[Ninjafish]

Shaq is not and has never been the problem with this team.

Didn't he say over and over that it wasn't Shaq's fault? Why are you not listening to anything he's telling you? The problem is the style change caused by the trade.

 

[Covert Rain]

Didn't he say over and over that it wasn't Shaq's fault? Why are you not listening to anything he's telling you? The problem is the style change caused by the trade.

Obviously, you don't know how to connect the dots. Plus, he has a history of blasting everything related to Shaq. So, before you interject next time...you might want to look at the context of the discussion which went way beyond play style.

 

[Bert]

"You want to play free," Stoudemire was saying after the listless Suns succumbed to the Knicks 114-109, their fourth loss in five games. "You want to play organized basketball, but you do want to have some type of playground atmosphere -- the type of attitude where guys can't stop you and everybody's having fun. That type of attitude is what we're looking for and what we need."

In other words Amare: I want a coach that lets us run and I get lots of dunks and points and am not asked to play defense.

I'm starting to think you guys are right about Amare.