Many many years.
The Territorial Cup--ASU @ UofA
- Thread starter Zobaczcie suki
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Many many years.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Neither does the past. You wont find a single sane UofA fan who would define the Mackovic years as a "success," regardless of whether or not we beat ASU. But while we're talking about the past, UofA still has a 9 game edge in the head-to-head record in the TC.
What matters more is that UofA is getting much more national notoriety than ASU. Despite having the same record, UofA is getting ranking votes and is probably going to get a sexier bowl than ASU (new rumors out today that Vegas Bowl is strongly considering choosing UofA).
The rivalry game will always be a crap shoot; regardless of record. One team could be 11-1 and the other could be 1-11.
However, IMO, UofA football will begin distancing itself from ASU within two years.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Not sure what you're talking about TJ, I'm pretty sure we're headed to New Mexico. Either way it was a successful first season all things considered. Did you see our depth chart on defense going into the season? We started three walk-ons and our pass rush specialist was a running back up until September.
And neither program is going to start distancing itself from anything. Neither program is recruiting particularly well, neither program did anything noteworthy this year, both programs lose key players from this year's mediocre teams, both coaches have marginal resumes over the last several years causing limited clout in living rooms and HS practice fields, and Arizona still hasn't become a hotbed for recruiting and the few local kids will continue looking elsewhere. Meanwhile UCLA is freaking loaded and young and USC will always have a talent advantage over both schools. I don't even have to go into the North and what Oregon and Stanford have going on in this era. After this long a program is what it is no matter how much hot air and kool-aid fueled delusions Graham and Rodriguez want to blow up our butts.
And neither program is going to start distancing itself from anything. Neither program is recruiting particularly well, neither program did anything noteworthy this year, both programs lose key players from this year's mediocre teams, both coaches have marginal resumes over the last several years causing limited clout in living rooms and HS practice fields, and Arizona still hasn't become a hotbed for recruiting and the few local kids will continue looking elsewhere. Meanwhile UCLA is freaking loaded and young and USC will always have a talent advantage over both schools. I don't even have to go into the North and what Oregon and Stanford have going on in this era. After this long a program is what it is no matter how much hot air and kool-aid fueled delusions Graham and Rodriguez want to blow up our butts.
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TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Do you read Ryan Finley? He indicated today that the director of the Kraft FHB has heard rumblings that the Vegas Bowl is strongly considering UA. This was mentioned last Sunday as well. The logic is that UW opens against BSU next season in their new stadium (provided BSU is the MWC choice) and ASU had such a poor performance last season that they don't want them back.
In addition, I'm convinced RichRod will be more successful in two years largely because of what you said - we started 3 walk ons on defense in a new 3-3-5 scheme. When he and Casteel get their men, we won't be getting trounced on the ground.
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MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
I agree but like ASU we'll still have our recruiting and game management issues that will prevent us from creating this distance that you mention.
Are you two lost or something?
Ya, someone needs to bear down, I mean south.Are you two lost or something?
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Mackovic beat Koetter in their first year as coaches. It was the brawl at midfield at SDS year. It was of course downhill for Macko after that.For the record - you did not beat ASU while Mackovic was coach. Just saying.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
For the record - you did not beat ASU while Mackovic was coach. Just saying.
Seeing as I attended UofA during the Mackovic years, I conveniently repressed those not so fond memories and myopically focused on hoops. People think the cupboards were bear when RichRod took over. There was literally nothing left when Stoops took over for Mackovic.
As Mao indicated, we did beat ASU in his first season. :BIM:
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TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
If history is the ultimate predictor of the future, Todd Graham will have found his next "Dream Job" within the next couple of months.
As for recruiting, we were Top 25 in the nation according to Rivals last season with a brand new head coach at the helm. RichRod can recruit. That was never an issue with him at WVU or UM. In addition, I don't see Graham as a better recruiter for talent than RichRod mainly due to track record and personality. Yes, RichRod has his warts, but a kid cannot be confident that he will get recruited by ASU and not receive a "Sayonara" text from Graham within a few months. In addition to which, RichRod has a big chip on his shoulders. He hates Graham, and the feeling is mutual. He has been vocal about the fact that Graham has a larger salary (due to ASU's desperation for a coach). Also, RichRod wants to prove nationally that the Michigan fiasco was a fluke and nothing more than a bad fit (the book "Three and Out" does an excellent job explaining what actually happened during his Michigan tenure). RichRod has every reason you can think of to be successful at Arizona.
Moreover, Greg Byrne understands the importance of having a competent football team at any university. He will hold the entire coaching staff to a very high standard now that we were blessed with the stadium expansion.
If history is the ultimate predictor of the future, Todd Graham will have found his next "Dream Job" within the next couple of months.
As for recruiting, we were Top 25 in the nation according to Rivals last season with a brand new head coach at the helm. RichRod can recruit. That was never an issue with him at WVU or UM. In addition, I don't see Graham as a better recruiter for talent than RichRod mainly due to track record and personality. Yes, RichRod has his warts, but a kid cannot be confident that he will get recruited by ASU and not receive a "Sayonara" text from Graham within a few months. In addition to which, RichRod has a big chip on his shoulders. He hates Graham, and the feeling is mutual. He has been vocal about the fact that Graham has a larger salary (due to ASU's desperation for a coach). Also, RichRod wants to prove nationally that the Michigan fiasco was a fluke and nothing more than a bad fit (the book "Three and Out" does an excellent job explaining what actually happened during his Michigan tenure). RichRod has every reason you can think of to be successful at Arizona.
Moreover, Greg Byrne understands the importance of having a competent football team at any university. He will hold the entire coaching staff to a very high standard now that we were blessed with the stadium expansion.
So, to sum TJ's analysis: "RichRod is desperate and bitter, thus, he will be more successful at UA."
Just my observation, but desperation and bitterness don't play well for the in-home recruiting visit. Car salesman still > than psycho head coach in that regard.
Zobaczcie suki
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Graham is a much better salesman, and the product he is selling is superior. Sorry Wildcats.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Actually #46 in 2012 rankings per Rivals. #28 right now for 2013 but a lot of other schools have room while we are mostly full. ASU was #38 in 2012 and will probably stay there in the 30's while we move back to somewhere around their level.
Which brings me back to my point: Neither of these programs is going to create this separation that you're talking about. Programs are who they are and neither is good or bad enough to leave the other one in the dust short of a Lute Olson type hiring. And hate to break it to you but Rich Rod and Graham ain't Lute Olson. They're maybe Bill Frieder.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Five winning seasons in the last 15 years is a good product? Around .500 football against D1 teams over the last thirty is something to recruit with?
Graham is a much better salesman, and the product he is selling is superior. Sorry Wildcats.
Sorry Devils, just like UofA your program as a whole isn't good enough to overcome it's systemic flaws even if Graham was the best salesman in the world (which he isn't, see your recruiting classes).
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MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Your observation should be that neither is working all that well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Arizona_Wildcats_football_team
November 23 1:00 PM at Arizona State Sun Devil Stadium • Tempe, AZ (Territorial Cup) FSN L 34–21 55,831
LOL @ Wikipedia fail...
November 23 1:00 PM at Arizona State Sun Devil Stadium • Tempe, AZ (Territorial Cup) FSN L 34–21 55,831
LOL @ Wikipedia fail...
Zobaczcie suki
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Ya, no I wasn't talking about the old product, I am talking about the new one with a +1 record over U of A in the Graham v. Rodriguez era. See the scoreboard. Of course, we still have a better location, better school, better campus, and all of that too of course.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Um...you went 7-5, beat no ranked teams, beat a mediocre UA team on the road, and have a recruiting class ranked in the middle of the conference. How is that different than what Erickson and Koetter were doing?
Like I'd say to TJ, do something of significance as a program this century before crowing.
Zobaczcie suki
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And it won't, until Arizona starts producing talent to field at least one team. And they stay home. Unlike basketball, football recruits are less likely to travel more than a day's drive to school.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
I agree, my guess is you put Todd Graham at UT he'll brings in top 10 classes. Just like RR did at Michigan. Programs are what they are, it takes a decades of systemic evolution or a transformative figure to change that. Both our schools might (hopefully) be somewhere in the middle of the former due to Arizona's population explosion but I highly doubt RR or Graham is the latter. Phil Knight is a great example of the latter.
I would add Arizona's suburban wasteland culture encourages a lot of kids to go elsewhere. Especially the ones that are second-gen or less. Like the desert, we make it really hard to lay roots here. I keep hearing people bitch about kids leaving to play at the Cal schools or even eastward. Besides the fact our schools don't win, these kids don't grow up skin in this game.
My contention with my fellow ASU fans is that ASU will be the school it thinks it is when they stop comparing themselves to UA. No offense. I say the same thing about UA fans who are obsessed with ASU.
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AZ Native
Living is Easy with Eyes Closed
ASU wins the Territorial Cup this year and will hold it all year, U of A fans can whine all year! Love it!
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
You're right because neither program ain't nothing to write home about.
And yes, I love UofA and Arizona as a whole. But if my kid gets a free ride to Cal, Stanford, UCLA, or USC he or she is going there. That's just common sense. It has nothing to do with suburban wasteland, more with post-graduate success and future connections.
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