The trade

[Bert]

Wow. Your argument is based on your assumption that the Cardinals missed out on better deals to take the deal offered by the Saints. If there is any sort of ridiculous assumption being made here it is by you. The Eagles received the same amount of picks total and in the same round. You are glorifying one team and killing another team because of a difference of 10 combined spots. That is absurd.

Exactly.

 

[Cheesebeef]

yeah was all over the thread.

Maybe the eagles didnt contact us.

i think we traded with like 7 minutes left on the clock which as a sales guy, I wouldnt trade until it was down to two minutes or less unless its a smoking deal.

So while they may have gotten better compensation if they held out longer, I am happy with the pick and happier that while getting that guy, we also added a second 3rd round pick.

this is the only thing that really bothered me here. seems like we panicked a bit leaving 7 minutes on the clock to get something done.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Wow. Your argument is based on your assumption that the Cardinals missed out on better deals to take the deal offered by the Saints. If there is any sort of ridiculous assumption being made here it is by you. The Eagles received the same amount of picks total and in the same round. You are glorifying one team and killing another team because of a difference of 10 combined spots. That is absurd.

Bingo!

BOOM!

 

[TJ]

Everyone is making a lot of assumptions on here. More like justifications. The only real facts are that the Cardinals gave up more and got less than someone in nearly an identical situation. That is has been the standard for this team for a long time.



At some point you have to stop making excuses.

Conversely, you're justifying why the trade was bad.

Listen, this is a draft where you want to have multiple picks in the first three rounds as there are still dozens of day one starters available. Our division rivals have that, while we entered with only 6 picks in total. Mission accomplished.

I understand the want to fleece the other party in a trade, but it looks like both got equal value. Additionally, I think we see one more trade to collect more picks later on.

 

[BigRedRage]

this is the only thing that really bothered me here. seems like we panicked a bit leaving 7 minutes on the clock to get something done.

Agreed. Even then, it doesnt bother me a ton and I hope they are thinking the same thing for the future.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agreed. Even then, it doesnt bother me a ton and I hope they are thinking the same thing for the future.

agree there too.

 

[Dayman]

Wow. Your argument is based on your assumption that the Cardinals missed out on better deals to take the deal offered by the Saints. If there is any sort of ridiculous assumption being made here it is by you. The Eagles received the same amount of picks total and in the same round. You are glorifying one team and killing another team because of a difference of 10 combined spots. That is absurd.

Agreed. The backlash from this trade seems like nitpicking to me.

 

[tnmike]

Everyone is making a lot of assumptions on here. More like justifications. The only real facts are that the Cardinals gave up more and got less than someone in nearly an identical situation. That is has been the standard for this team for a long time.

At some point you have to stop making excuses.

So I guess if the deal with the Saints had already been agreed upon that it would have been OK to renege ? That'll get you a whole lot of trust in the future won't it ?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Chris, are you more upset because you don't like the player that we drafted or that we didn't get what you perceive to be fair market value? I'm going with that. I think you are trying to justify the former with the latter.

 

[Reddog]

We probably didn't want to deal with the Eagles no matter how good the deal because we were still butt hurt over the fleecing we took on Kolb

 

[tnmike]

Maybe the Browns didn't decide they wanted to move until after the Cards made the trade. It doesn't matter it was 20 minutes later, a lot of deals can develop in 20 minutes.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

The Eagles/Browns deal makes our trade look worse. However, according to some of the value chart stuff I have seen, we should have got more for the pick. That is the issue. We always seem to be on the short end of the value, even if we hold the leverage. We should have at least squeezed an extra 5th or 6th round pick in addition to the 3rd (especially if it was not a high 3rd). The 5th or 6th rounder could have turned into another Steve Breaston/Andre Ellington type of guy. We always seem to be on the short end of extra compensation.

 

[tnmike]

Not only was the pick a reach but the trade was bad too. Did anyone else catch this:

Cards drop back 7 spots and get the #91 pick.

2 spots later the Eagles drop back 4 spots and get the #83 pick.

So the Eagles gave up worse value, still ended up in front of us, and got better compensation.


Bad bad bad

Hand Wringers, buck passers and Monday morning quarterbacks

 

[PDXChris]

Maybe the Browns didn't decide they wanted to move until after the Cards made the trade. It doesn't matter it was 20 minutes later, a lot of deals can develop in 20 minutes.

That is exactly what was reported last night. They wanted who N.O. took and has no idea N.O. was going to take him when they traded up with us. So, they freaked out and make the trade to move up and take JM.

 

[tnmike]

The Eagles/Browns deal makes our trade look worse. However, according to some of the value chart stuff I have seen, we should have got more for the pick. That is the issue. We always seem to be on the short end of the value, even if we hold the leverage. We should have at least squeezed an extra 5th or 6th round pick in addition to the 3rd (especially if it was not a high 3rd). The 5th or 6th rounder could have turned into another Steve Breaston/Andre Ellington type of guy. We always seem to be on the short end of extra compensation.

Dang, you should have been there to make the deal. Oh wait, you weren't there were you. Crap, I was sure that you were......

 

[Mitch]

Chris, I think that because Cleveland was trading up to get their QB, they had a greater sense of urgency. In this draft 7 draft slots in the 3rd round isn't going to matter much. The fact is that we were able to get a 3rd rounder and still draft a player who should be a starter and who was the player Steve Keim wanted. Plus---the big thing is---the 49ers didn't get Brandin Cooks, the player they wanted to trade up to get. By trading the pick to NO, Keim prevented that. Yes, the 49ers got Stevie Johnson in a trade today (but he's no great shakes in the slot or over the middle), so Cooks would have been a touch matchup in the slot for years to come. We don't know who the player at #91 is yet, but I think that when we see who that is and add his value to Bucannon's, the trade will look even sweeter.

 

[Harry]

Look at a draft value chart. The Cards should have gotten more and I'm not buying the reciever talk surrounding Cleveland. Still several good receivers on the board when they took Johnny Football.

 

[tnmike]

That is exactly what was reported last night. They wanted who N.O. took and has no idea N.O. was going to take him when they traded up with us. So, they freaked out and make the trade to move up and take JM.

Finally a sane mind, Thank you

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Look at a draft value chart. The Cards should have gotten more and I'm not buying the reciever talk surrounding Cleveland. Still several good receivers on the board when they took Johnny Football.

Correct Harry. Exactly the point I was going to make.

The difference between the 20th pick and the 27th and the 91st pick is an additional 5th rounder. I would say that is significant.

Then came the incredibly silly question about being upset about 10 draft spots in the third round. Well that is 50 points or a 4th rounder.

This is incredibly easy to look up on your own instead of just giving the standard free pass

 

[Vermont Maverick]

The trade was only bad if we missed out on someone we would have taken otherwise. What if Buchanon was the top player on our board at 20? Then how in the world is it bad that we took him at 27 and picked up a 3rd?

Based on who went 20-26 I think Buchanon was at the top of our board either way.

Manziel was never on our board. He's not a scheme fit and as Keim said 3 months ago, Palmer is our QB for the next 3-5 years. Clinton-Dix doesn't compliment Matheiu well. We wanted someone bigger to pair with TM. We had no need for a CB right now. Dee Ford is maybe the only guy I could have seen ahead of Buchanon, but I'm not convinced that 244 lb 3-4 OLB that ran a 4.75 40 is what we wanted.

This.


I agree with the premise that we did not meet the value of the chart. And we had time on the clock, so maybe we could have got something better. Or maybe not.


But, at the end of the day, if we we taking Bucannon anyway, then ANYTHING we get is a good deal. Clinton-Dix is not a good compliment to TM, and he is our free safety hopefully for a long time. Can't argue BPA when you have a first year star at that position. You can make an argument for Dennard or Ford being higher ranked, but the rest I don't think were on our radar.


You can't just pass up a deal that get's you more than you would have had just because some GUIDELINE chart tells you that you aren't getting "value". That would be absolute stupidity.

 

[Dback Jon]

So some guy years ago comes up with a draft value chart, and we treat it as gospel. Nuts.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

So some guy years ago comes up with a draft value chart, and we treat it as gospel. Nuts.

You said that so much better than my previous typically long winded post. Well played.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Chris, I think that because Cleveland was trading up to get their QB, they had a greater sense of urgency. In this draft 7 draft slots in the 3rd round isn't going to matter much. The fact is that we were able to get a 3rd rounder and still draft a player who should be a starter and who was the player Steve Keim wanted. Plus---the big thing is---the 49ers didn't get Brandin Cooks, the player they wanted to trade up to get. By trading the pick to NO, Keim prevented that. Yes, the 49ers got Stevie Johnson in a trade today (but he's no great shakes in the slot or over the middle), so Cooks would have been a touch matchup in the slot for years to come. We don't know who the player at #91 is yet, but I think that when we see who that is and add his value to Bucannon's, the trade will look even sweeter.

The Eagles got fair value for their pick. That is from a universally recognized source for draft value. Cleveland didn't make a desperate move, they just paid full price

 

[Chris_Sanders]

To answer the earlier question, I am unhappy with the selection and the trade.

To separate transactions, two mistakes by Keim

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So some guy years ago comes up with a draft value chart, and we treat it as gospel. Nuts.

Yeah those unbiased sources are crazy when they aren't in our favor