The trade

[Stout]

The trade was not as good as giving up Manti Te'o for Kevin Minter and a 5th, not as bad as giving up the chance to draft Terrell Suggs for Calvin Pace, Bryant Johnson, and the opportunity to trade down in the second.

The draft is a dynamic process. Just because the Eagles did better than us doesn't mean that we did poorly.

Agreed. Not NEARLY as bad as the Suggs fiasco. Oh, and lest we forget, we ALSO gave up a 4th rounder to them in that deal! Oy!

 

[Mulli]

Great Oden's Beard, can we get to the draft already!!!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So, you conclude this by viewing his incredible combine performance? His 15 career INTs at WSU? Or, by negating all if the expert commentary about him that says he has the ability to cover NFL tight ends??





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Well his combine performance was impressive. That is why he went from a 4th round pick to a 2nd round pick to ultimately a first round pick.

I won't get into my opinion on guys who rise up like this because of workouts.

It isn't his athleticism I question but his instincts and his ability to reign his tendency to overreact.

Like I said, he can be coached up but I don't consider guys that need a lot of refining as first rounders (except maybe quarterbacks).

 

[Dback Jon]

Yet, some posters on this board choose to ignore the facts. I'm sure lots of relevant people in the business still use these charts as the basis of trades. Even Pat Kirwin (Sirius) and several other media folk that are former FO people use the charts when speaking on trade discussions.

And yet for all the hand-wringing, the difference in points is 4% from "what the chart says" To call that bad is hyperbole

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Really???

I'm trying to figure out what you are suggesting with this thread?

Are you saying that the Browns came to the Cardinals and the Cardinals turned down the deal for a lesser deal with the Saints? I doubt it but I don't see any other logical arguement that you could frame with your original statement.

Common sense would say that if the Browns did come to the Cards with the same offer, then the Cards would have taken it. Therefore it doesn't take much thought to realize that the Browns didn't approach the Cardinals with said trade and your assumptions are completely off base.

No I am not saying that at all. Maybe that is where people are not understanding.

I am saying there are two trades. One got good value, one did not.

It is fair to say that we are consistently on the "Did Not" get good value side of things.

It is frustrating. I would love to just say it was circumstances that caused the aberration but consistent statistical aberrations aren't anomalies. They are reality.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well his combine performance was impressive. That is why he went from a 4th round pick to a 2nd round pick to ultimately a first round pick.

I won't get into my opinion on guys who rise up like this because of workouts.

It isn't his athleticism I question but his instincts and his ability to reign his tendency to overreact.

Like I said, he can be coached up but I don't consider guys that need a lot of refining as first rounders (except maybe quarterbacks).

A lot of refining?? Where are you coming up with this stuff?? There are many/most so-called experts who see him as a potential starter in the NFL - THIS YEAR!
Keim stated that after his visit, Bucannon was his #1 safety choice.
Seriously Chris, where are you coming up with your assertions?
The kid led the Pac-12 in tackles. He had 15 career INT's on a defense that couldn't generate a pass rush against the opposing teams' cheer squad! A team where he never got help from corners or linebackers...

I just don't see where you are coming up with your position on Deone... other than you are simply pissed off because you feel the Cards didn't respect "the chart"...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And yet for all the hand-wringing, the difference in points is 4% from "what the chart says" To call that bad is hyperbole

So if you have a baseline and you appear 4% under it, do you consider that:

A) Highly Successful
B) Successful
C) Average
D) Below Average
E) A Failure

I would tell you what I would consider an employee that was 4% under target. D

 

[PDXChris]

So if you have a baseline and you appear 4% under it, do you consider that:

A) Highly Successful
B) Successful
C) Average
D) Below Average
E) A Failure

I would tell you what I would consider an employee that was 4% under target. D

But then you baseline is on a 1989 Camaro and are comparing it to your 2014 Model, the baseline is way off.

Seriously, you are comparing this

You must be registered for see images attach

To this

You must be registered for see images

 

[Chris_Sanders]

A lot of refining?? Where are you coming up with this stuff?? There are many/most so-called experts who see him as a potential starter in the NFL - THIS YEAR!
Keim stated that after his visit, Bucannon was his #1 safety choice.
Seriously Chris, where are you coming up with your assertions?
The kid led the Pac-12 in tackles. He had 15 career INT's on a defense that couldn't generate a pass rush against the opposing teams' cheer squad! A team where he never got help from corners or linebackers...

I just don't see where you are coming up with your position on Deone... other than you are simply pissed off because you feel the Cards didn't respect "the chart"...

He is a 4 year starter. Propping up 15 interceptions in a pass happy conference isn't all that. About 3.75 a year

I have seen him play. I have read some opposing views.

My dislike for the pick has nothing to do with my dislike for the trade. Both were bad moves and I obviously have no problem putting it down for future reference.

Just like I have time and time again.

But by all means keeping riding on the reading rainbow. It is all sunshine and kittens over here.

 

[Dback Jon]

So if you have a baseline and you appear 4% under it, do you consider that:

A) Highly Successful
B) Successful
C) Average
D) Below Average
E) A Failure

I would tell you what I would consider an employee that was 4% under target. D

With-in the margin of error, especially since the trade value is a guideline, not a hard and fast rule, and the true results of the trade will not be known for years.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

But then you baseline is on a 1989 Camaro and are comparing it to your 2014 Model, the baseline is way off.

Seriously, you are comparing this

You must be registered for see images attach

To this

You must be registered for see images

Sigh...

Or you could compare the same cars and try to sell that the one that performs 4% less than the other is just as good.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

With-in the margin of error, especially since the trade value is a guideline, not a hard and fast rule, and the true results of the trade will not be known for years.

Correct, 3 years from now we will know how things stand. This is my opinion today.

 

[82CardsGrad]

He is a 4 year starter. Propping up 15 interceptions in a pass happy conference isn't all that. About 3.75 a year

I have seen him play. I have read some opposing views.

My dislike for the pick has nothing to do with my dislike for the trade. Both were bad moves and I obviously have no problem putting it down for future reference.

Just like I have time and time again.

But by all means keeping riding on the reading rainbow. It is all sunshine and kittens over here.

LOL... Your anger over the trade is on full display dude. I have no idea just how great, or not, Bucannon will become. However, from everything I have read and seen about him, including from people who are far more expert than you or me, I really like his chances to have a superb career in the NFL. And, I therefore really like the move the Cards made to get him!

 

[HeavyB3]

The Cardinals should have looked into the future and known that the Eagles were going to get something better. How dare they failto utilize simple time travel analysis to realize that someone else might have done better than us in a trade.

I think the Cardinals got the player they wanted. If they had taken him at 20, then they might have been the same old Cardinals. Instead they realized he was probably still going to be there 7 spots down, and they got an extra player out of it in a very deep draft. Everything is a gamble, but we haven't seen anything from this regime to instill a lack of trust. Rob Graves doesn't work here anymore.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

LOL... Your anger over the trade is on full display dude!

I wouldn't say I am angry over the trade. Just weary of constantly being on the short end of the stick.

I probably would have left this to die hours ago but people keep rushing to twist my words or prop up how great it is without anything to support that.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I wouldn't say I am angry over the trade. Just weary of constantly being on the short end of the stick.

I probably would have left this to die hours ago but people keep rushing to twist my words or prop up how great it is without anything to support that.

Other than your "expert" views on the topic, can YOU produce anything to support your perspective on the trade??

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Other than your "expert" views on the topic, can YOU produce anything to support your perspective on the trade??

I did...the universally used trade chart evaluator that showed that we were 4% under the standard or the equivalent of a 5th rounder.

Sheesh are you even reading my posts or just trying to argue?

 

[82CardsGrad]

I did...the universally used trade chart evaluator that showed that we were 4% under the standard or the equivalent of a 5th rounder.

Sheesh are you even reading my posts or just trying to argue?

LOL... MY opinion is that the chart has been soundly debunked. And I believe someone asked you for proof/evidence/something to suggest that that specific chart is actually being used today.
Additionally, many posters have addressed the reality of the situation AT THE TIME of the trade.
And lastly, Keim & Co had their ratings chart and had their player available when their pick came due.
We got "our guy" and an additional pick in a very deep draft. Now, other than referring to an antiquated jaloppy of a chart, can you produce any commentary - other than your own - that talks badly about the Cards' move??

 

[Jay Cardinal]

Just heard some good dirt on why the Eagles got a slightly better trade for #22 than we got for #20. Apparently there was a bidding war between the Vikings and the Browns for the pick to draft Johnny Football.

Here is the article my Minnesota friend sent me:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/258562481.html

 

[82CardsGrad]

Just heard some good dirt on why the Eagles got a slightly better trade for #22 than we got for #20. Apparently there was a bidding war between the Vikings and the Browns for the pick to draft Johnny Football.

Here is the article my Minnesota friend sent me:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/258562481.html

I believe others on this board speculated this to be the case... Makes perfect sense - doesn't it Chris??

 

[MadCardDisease]

I did...the universally used trade chart evaluator that showed that we were 4% under the standard or the equivalent of a 5th rounder.

Sheesh are you even reading my posts or just trying to argue?

You are seriously mad because the Cardinals missed out on a theoretical 4%? FOUR percent based off a rule of thumb chart. Step back from the cliff Mr Sanders!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

LOL... MY opinion is that the chart has been soundly debunked. And I believe someone asked you for proof/evidence/something to suggest that that specific chart is actually being used today.
Additionally, many posters have addressed the reality of the situation AT THE TIME of the trade.
And lastly, Keim & Co had their ratings chart and had their player available when their pick came due.
We got "our guy" and an additional pick in a very deep draft. Now, other than referring to an antiquated jaloppy of a chart, can you produce any commentary - other than your own - that talks badly about the Cards' move??

Well like Harry said, that chart is used consistently to this day and is actually based on facts. I haven't seen anything that it has been "debunked" or is antiquated

I have given my two resources (example trade better than ours and the chart) for determining my opinion. If your goal was to badger me into silence I guess you win.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You are seriously mad because the Cardinals missed out on a theoretical 4%? FOUR percent based off a rule of thumb chart. Step back from the cliff Mr Sanders!

No, I said I am weary of routinely being on the short end of the trade stick.

This is a piece of said picture. Just tired of settling.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well like Harry said, that chart is used consistently to this day and is actually based on facts. I haven't seen anything that it has been "debunked" or is antiquated

I have given my two resources (example trade better than ours and the chart) for determining my opinion. If your goal was to badger me into silence I guess you win.

Not at all... just looking for some support for your position. Virtually this entire board views the move differently than you. And more importantly, any other outside "expert" who chose to comment on the trade, did so with positive remarks for the move made by the Cards.
When the scale of sentiment is tipped so heavily to one side, I am simply curious as to what is causing you to take the other side.
And I haven't even mentioned Keim's growing reputation to be a shrewd deal-maker and talent evaluator...

Anyway - time will tell and I have no doubt we'll be back to revisit this thread in due time.
Until then, in BASK we trust!

 

[Dback Jon]

No, I said I am weary of routinely being on the short end of the trade stick.

This is a piece of said picture. Just tired of settling.

What other trades under BA & SK have the Cards been on the short end of the stick?