The Truth About Leinart and Warner

[Mitch]

Matt Leinart was deemed, by the coaching staff, as the team's starter heading into TC for one simple reason: the Cardinals do not want to have to pay Kurt Warner a starter's salary.

Sure...the Cards would love to get maximum value on Leinart, the team's 1st round pick in 2006, #10 overall. No question.

But...if they appointed Warner the starter heading into TC, and applauded Warner for throwing 27 TDs and a top three in the league red zone proficiency with torn ligs--no less--in his left elbow...Warner would be in a logical position to command a starter's salary.

Now...the team wants to reup Warner on a short-term extension, and some say the deal will get done before TC...not so fast...Warner may likely take his chances, seize the starter's job, as some, including myself, expect him to do, and then parlay this year's performance into a lucrative two-year extension (with the Cards) or on the free agent market come next March.

Warner, as loyal and gracious as he is, may accept a hometown discount with the Cards...and may even sign an extension before TC...as he and his family are probably tired of changing residences.

All this said, expect for Warner to be the team's starting QB come game one. Kent Somers said that Leinart will be not be given a quick hook? How quick will it seem when Warner trots out with the offense versus the 49ers?

IMO, Warner deserves to be the starter...he performed more than well enough last year to merit the job. Yes, the coaches want to see him protect the ball better...but they have already been stressing this with him.

It's no fluke that Warner was getting as many reps with the first team offense during voluntary workouts...he gives the team the best chance to win, because he can make the throws that Whiz and Haley want, more than just a tad better than Leinart.

It's really this simple.

 

[joeshmo]

It's no fluke that Warner was getting as many reps with the first team offense during voluntary workouts...

We only had one story of Warner taking snaps with the 1st team during ONE out of 14 OTA practices. A practice I might add is not all that uncommon during OTA's for the 2nd stringer to get a few reps with the 1st string as was mentioned in one of the articles that came out at the time Warner took snaps in one of the OTA's. I know it is a common practice in Pitt. So I am wondering why you are implying that Warner is taking more snaps with the 1st team then he reportedly really is?

As for the rest of the story you sure do got a lot of speculating going on. Some very big leaps of faith there. The Cards have never done negotating tactics like that before I dont think they they are about to start it this offseason. Our FO is pretty straight shooters as is Wiz, they would not be playing games like that.

Warner is going to be 38 in the 2009 season. He will without question never get a starter type contract from any another team if he isnt extended past this season, let alone a 2 year starter deal that will pay him through the age of 39! He gets paid as one of the top QB backups here or with any other team at best.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Mitch, I would love nothing more than to see Kurt as our starter this season, as I have zero faith in Matty... However, I believe the "truth" is that Matt will start and barring another major injury, nothing will change that...
Additionally, Kurt has said time and again that he and his family do not want to leave Phoenix. They have fallen in love with Arizona and want to make it their long-term/permanent home. Nothing is ever forever, however I tend to believe him on this one.
joeshmo is right... Kurt will be 38 years old next season. Ain't no way the Cards or any other team will cough up a 2 year deal for a very old 38 year old gun-slinger...
Kurt's only chance to ever start again is this season, and that will only happen if Matty goes down again...

 

[CardinalChris]

Stress it all you want, Warner can't help himself from the silly turn overs. Parity being what is it in the NFL, you simply can't turn the ball over as much as he does and win in this league.

And Matt is the starter because he has a higher ceiling than Warner. If he plays to his ability (we saw glimpses of it his rookie year) he will perform in a way that will do more to help the team.

 

[red desert]

Matt Leinart was deemed, by the coaching staff, as the team's starter heading into TC for one simple reason: the Cardinals do not want to have to pay Kurt Warner a starter's salary.

Sure...the Cards would love to get maximum value on Leinart, the team's 1st round pick in 2006, #10 overall. No question.

But...if they appointed Warner the starter heading into TC, and applauded Warner for throwing 27 TDs and a top three in the league red zone proficiency with torn ligs--no less--in his left elbow...Warner would be in a logical position to command a starter's salary.

Now...the team wants to reup Warner on a short-term extension, and some say the deal will get done before TC...not so fast...Warner may likely take his chances, seize the starter's job, as some, including myself, expect him to do, and then parlay this year's performance into a lucrative two-year extension (with the Cards) or on the free agent market come next March.

Warner, as loyal and gracious as he is, may accept a hometown discount with the Cards...and may even sign an extension before TC...as he and his family are probably tired of changing residences.

All this said, expect for Warner to be the team's starting QB come game one. Kent Somers said that Leinart will be not be given a quick hook? How quick will it seem when Warner trots out with the offense versus the 49ers?

IMO, Warner deserves to be the starter...he performed more than well enough last year to merit the job. Yes, the coaches want to see him protect the ball better...but they have already been stressing this with him.

It's no fluke that Warner was getting as many reps with the first team offense during voluntary workouts...he gives the team the best chance to win, because he can make the throws that Whiz and Haley want, more than just a tad better than Leinart.

It's really this simple.

Yes, yes, and yes. Warner, given protection, is one of the top 5 qbs in the league. The man has won a freakin' super bowl. Been MVP. He's in good health.

Leinart is, well, Leinart. Not a bad thing. But he's not Warner.

 

[dogpoo32]

Stress it all you want, Warner can't help himself from the silly turn overs. Parity being what is it in the NFL, you simply can't turn the ball over as much as he does and win in this league.

And Matt is the starter because he has a higher ceiling than Warner. If he plays to his ability (we saw glimpses of it his rookie year) he will perform in a way that will do more to help the team.

Well said.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Stress it all you want, Warner can't help himself from the silly turn overs. Parity being what is it in the NFL, you simply can't turn the ball over as much as he does and win in this league.

And Matt is the starter because he has a higher ceiling than Warner. If he plays to his ability (we saw glimpses of it his rookie year) he will perform in a way that will do more to help the team.

A brief "glimpse" translates into a higher "ceiling"?? To me, that's blind faith...

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Leinart is, well, Leinart. Not a bad thing. But he's not Warner.

Leinart has played a total of 17 games. I don't think we know what Leinart is yet.

And that is my only point.

If Warner plays that is fine but it will have long term reprocussions in my opinion. Negative ones at that.

Warner very well may get his chance and play well. Or her could go back to the guy he was the 4 seasons before last.

But RD you are right about the fact you cannot look past Warner's resume.

 

[D-Dogg]

This has no basis in anything that has been reported recently, and given your recent off-the-tracks moment with DD and Quan, I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt that this comes from an inside source, either.

 

[CardinalChris]

A brief "glimpse" translates into a higher "ceiling"?? To me, that's blind faith...

The people who see ability and skill are the coaches, and they seem to agree with our glimpse. The only people who have blind faith are you and I because we don't see the team meetings, practices, etc. I'll trust them over you. I've seen what Kurt can do, and you can't turn the ball over as much as he does and win. End of story. 3 TD, 2 INTs and a fumble and you will lose 85% of the time.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Matt Leinart was deemed, by the coaching staff, as the team's starter heading into TC for one simple reason: the Cardinals do not want to have to pay Kurt Warner a starter's salary.

Sure...the Cards would love to get maximum value on Leinart, the team's 1st round pick in 2006, #10 overall. No question.

But...if they appointed Warner the starter heading into TC, and applauded Warner for throwing 27 TDs and a top three in the league red zone proficiency with torn ligs--no less--in his left elbow...Warner would be in a logical position to command a starter's salary.

Now...the team wants to reup Warner on a short-term extension, and some say the deal will get done before TC...not so fast...Warner may likely take his chances, seize the starter's job, as some, including myself, expect him to do, and then parlay this year's performance into a lucrative two-year extension (with the Cards) or on the free agent market come next March.

Warner, as loyal and gracious as he is, may accept a hometown discount with the Cards...and may even sign an extension before TC...as he and his family are probably tired of changing residences.

All this said, expect for Warner to be the team's starting QB come game one. Kent Somers said that Leinart will be not be given a quick hook? How quick will it seem when Warner trots out with the offense versus the 49ers?

IMO, Warner deserves to be the starter...he performed more than well enough last year to merit the job. Yes, the coaches want to see him protect the ball better...but they have already been stressing this with him.

It's no fluke that Warner was getting as many reps with the first team offense during voluntary workouts...he gives the team the best chance to win, because he can make the throws that Whiz and Haley want, more than just a tad better than Leinart.

It's really this simple.

Yes, yes, and yes. Warner, given protection, is one of the top 5 qbs in the league. The man has won a freakin' super bowl. Been MVP. He's in good health.

Leinart is, well, Leinart. Not a bad thing. But he's not Warner.

 

[RonF]

Mitch, I have to admit that you sure make the period of the doldrums before training camp interesting. You've given us scenerios where others would dare to tread and I can't really find an argument with your point of view/ opinion/inside information. It's all very interesting to this reader.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The people who see ability and skill are the coaches, and they seem to agree with our glimpse. The only people who have blind faith are you and I because we don't see the team meetings, practices, etc. I'll trust them over you. I've seen what Kurt can do, and you can't turn the ball over as much as he does and win. End of story. 3 TD, 2 INTs and a fumble and you will lose 85% of the time.

I am not at all at odds with your logic on Warner... Quite simply, Matt has shown zero signs of being able to play well and sustain winning at a level greater than Warner - none...

 

[ajcardfan]

I am not at all at odds with your logic on Warner... Quite simply, Matt has shown zero signs of being able to play well and sustain winning at a level greater than Warner - none...

That's your opinion. I don't think a coach in the NFL would agree with it. The Bears game, alone, is one sign he can play well and win. The drive to clinch the Steelers win is another sign he can play well and win. Etc.

You make it sound like he's done nothing but suck all the time. He has been inconsistent, yes.

 

[82CardsGrad]

That's your opinion. I don't think a coach in the NFL would agree with it. The Bears game, alone, is one sign he can play well and win. The drive to clinch the Steelers win is another sign he can play well and win. Etc.

You make it sound like he's done nothing but suck all the time. He has been inconsistent, yes.

One or two games means squat to me... There have been hundreds of QB's in the NFL who have had 1 or 2 solid games, and never amounted to anything but a flop... I honestly don't see much in Leinart to suggest he can be a consistent performer in the NFL... Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Buckybird]

Just remember Leinart has basically rplayed ONEseason. The kid will be a very good NFL QB, write it down!!! How long did it take Aikman, Favre, Romo, Kurt, Eli among others to learn the game? This season or next Matt will show all the doubters how wrong they were.

 

[Stout]

One or two games means squat to me... There have been hundreds of QB's in the NFL who have had 1 or 2 solid games, and never amounted to anything but a flop... I honestly don't see much in Leinart to suggest he can be a consistent performer in the NFL... Hope I'm wrong.

Gee, he played solid-to-stellar in 2 games with only a handfull of games under his belt...of course we shouldn't give him a chance.

I'm sorry, but anyone who can honestly say Leinart has zero chance to develop is crazy. That isn't what you said, exactly, but I've been hearing a lot of chatter to that end.

 

[Stout]

This has no basis in anything that has been reported recently, and given your recent off-the-tracks moment with DD and Quan, I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt that this comes from an inside source, either.

Thank you, I'm in complete agreement. Mitch hasn't been, well, terribly himself lately.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Just remember Leinart has basically rplayed ONEseason. The kid will be a very good NFL QB, write it down!!! How long did it take Aikman, Favre, Romo, Kurt, Eli among others to learn the game? This season or next Matt will show all the doubters how wrong they were.

I am not anti-Matt, just pro-Kurt. I think Leinart will be great in time, I am just not too certain that Warner isn't the best man right now. I am tired of rebuilding. This team is playoff ready and needs to have the best players on the field, regardless of circumstances.

That said, I dont think Whiz will leave Leinart in too long if he is tanking, and we do need to know for certain exactly what we have in him.

 

[Skkorpion]

The biggest fear factor, to me, about Matt Leinart is his injury history. His demonstrated propensity for shoulder injuries.

Leinart has never known as a workout warrior. We've got to hope he slaved away in the weight room to build his upper body mass a little and boost his ability to absorb hits.

Matt has flashed NFL QB smarts and functionality. All will be wasted if he can't stay on the field. Right now, I have zero expectation that Leinart can make it through an entire 16 game schedule as a starter, without a serious upper body injury.

I'm not suggesting he needs to start all 16 games. Few QBs do. Minor dings, sprains and contusions cause most QBs to miss a few games each year. That's acceptable.

Dislocated shoulders and broken collar bones are not okay. Not when they happen regularly.

That is why we must extend Warner.

 

[moklerman]

When you look at what Leinart's done since the first couple of games, it doesn't inspire confidence. Of course, there are circumstances but the lack of production has to mean something doesn't it?

In his first three games, he had 2 TD's twice. In his last 14, he had 2 TD's once. He still hasn't passed for 3 TD's in a game. Since the Chicago game (14 starts) he has 9 TD, 14 INT's and 6 fumbles(2 lost). I realize he has only 16 starts but 16 starts in a rookie season is much different that 16 starts over 2-3 years. Add in his injuries and his overall stock is certainly deserving of doubt.

 

[82CardsGrad]

When you look at what Leinart's done since the first couple of games, it doesn't inspire confidence. Of course, there are circumstances but the lack of production has to mean something doesn't it?

In his first three games, he had 2 TD's twice. In his last 14, he had 2 TD's once. He still hasn't passed for 3 TD's in a game. Since the Chicago game (14 starts) he has 9 TD, 14 INT's and 6 fumbles(2 lost). I realize he has only 16 starts but 16 starts in a rookie season is much different that 16 starts over 2-3 years. Add in his injuries and his overall stock is certainly deserving of doubt.

Yup... I believe the odds of Leinart doing an el Floppo are far greater than the odds of him becoming a steady performer at minimum, let alone a "great" NFL Qb...

 

[D-Dogg]

Eli Manning was deemed, by the coaching staff, as the team's starter heading into TC for one simple reason: the Cardinals do not want to have to pay Kurt Warner a starter's salary.

Sure...the Cards would love to get maximum value on Manning, the team's 1st round pick in 2006, #10 overall. No question.

But...if they appointed Warner the starter heading into TC, and applauded Warner for throwing 27 TDs and a top three in the league red zone proficiency with torn ligs--no less--in his left elbow...Warner would be in a logical position to command a starter's salary.

Now...the team wants to reup Warner on a short-term extension, and some say the deal will get done before TC...not so fast...Warner may likely take his chances, seize the starter's job, as some, including myself, expect him to do, and then parlay this year's performance into a lucrative two-year extension (with the Cards) or on the free agent market come next March.

Warner, as loyal and gracious as he is, may accept a hometown discount with the Cards...and may even sign an extension before TC...as he and his family are probably tired of changing residences.

All this said, expect for Warner to be the team's starting QB come game one. Kent Somers said that Manning will be not be given a quick hook? How quick will it seem when Warner trots out with the offense versus the 49ers?

IMO, Warner deserves to be the starter...he performed more than well enough last year to merit the job. Yes, the coaches want to see him protect the ball better...but they have already been stressing this with him.

It's no fluke that Warner was getting as many reps with the first team offense during voluntary workouts...he gives the team the best chance to win, because he can make the throws that Whiz and Haley want, more than just a tad better than Manning.

It's really this simple.

Mitch, I would love nothing more than to see Kurt as our starter this season, as I have zero faith in Eli... However, I believe the "truth" is that Eli will start and barring another major injury, nothing will change that...
Additionally, Kurt has said time and again that he and his family do not want to leave Phoenix. They have fallen in love with Arizona and want to make it their long-term/permanent home. Nothing is ever forever, however I tend to believe him on this one.
joeshmo is right... Kurt will be 38 years old next season. Ain't no way the Cards or any other team will cough up a 2 year deal for a very old 38 year old gun-slinger...
Kurt's only chance to ever start again is this season, and that will only happen if Eliy goes down again...

Stress it all you want, Warner can't help himself from the silly turn overs. Parity being what is it in the NFL, you simply can't turn the ball over as much as he does and win in this league.

And Eli is the starter because he has a higher ceiling than Warner. If he plays to his ability (we saw glimpses of it his rookie year) he will perform in a way that will do more to help the team.

Yes, yes, and yes. Warner, given protection, is one of the top 5 qbs in the league. The man has won a freakin' super bowl. Been MVP. He's in good health.

Manning is, well, Manning. Not a bad thing. But he's not Warner.

Well said.

A brief "glimpse" translates into a higher "ceiling"?? To me, that's blind faith...

Manning has played a total of 17 games. I don't think we know what Manning is yet.

And that is my only point.

If Warner plays that is fine but it will have long term reprocussions in my opinion. Negative ones at that.

Warner very well may get his chance and play well. Or her could go back to the guy he was the 4 seasons before last.

But RD you are right about the fact you cannot look past Warner's resume.

I am not at all at odds with your logic on Warner... Quite simply, Eli has shown zero signs of being able to play well and sustain winning at a level greater than Warner - none...

Gee, he played solid-to-stellar in 2 games with only a handfull of games under his belt...of course we shouldn't give him a chance.

I'm sorry, but anyone who can honestly say Manning has zero chance to develop is crazy. That isn't what you said, exactly, but I've been hearing a lot of chatter to that end.

I am not anti-Eli, just pro-Kurt. I think Manning will be great in time, I am just not too certain that Warner isn't the best man right now. I am tired of rebuilding. This team is playoff ready and needs to have the best players on the field, regardless of circumstances.

That said, I dont think Coughlin will leave Manning in too long if he is tanking, and we do need to know for certain exactly what we have in him.

When you look at what Manning's done since the first couple of games, it doesn't inspire confidence. Of course, there are circumstances but the lack of production has to mean something doesn't it?

Yup... I believe the odds of Manning doing an el Floppo are far greater than the odds of him becoming a steady performer at minimum, let alone a "great" NFL Qb...

Hmm, I wonder if anyone in NY would feel deja vu by this...

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Comparing Warner in NY to Warner here is a bad comparison. I like Lienart and think he can be a good qb, but Warner gives us the best chance to win. He isn't without flaws, but Warner has proven he can be extremely effective with the weapons we have.

In addition, while our line wasn't spectacular last year, they were extremely efficient in terms of pass blocking. You could see the offense react differently in games like the Baltimore game where they were floundering, when Warner came in there was definitely a different pep in their step. With another year in the offense and being 100% healthy, I don't see how you sit Warner. It's not like age or mobility are major factors for him anyway, he was never fast and never mobile. Bottom line, Warner is still probably top 5 in the league in terms of accuracy, and with him at the helm our offense will put up excellent numbers. If we can get our pass rushers to play balls out, and get an effective rotation going in the front seven, I think we could be a pretty good team this year.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

I will say that I was no fan of Warner coming here. But last year he showed me that the guy really is a damn good QB in any situation. If we didnt have a future to think about I would say yes Warner will start. But the truth is the team views Matt as the future and he has not done horrible. The team has to get him game time and and either make him the QB of the future or start making other plans.

Warner is seriously a much better man and QB than I ever gave him credit for. I guess I was blinded by the stinky Lambs slime that he used to be coated in.