The West is Insane!

[Lorenzo]

There are these things called matchups.

Following Dallas, you should know this since they couldn't matchup with G.S. all year, and that fact was borne out in the playoffs.

Again, I have NO worries about either Houston or the Nooch in the playoffs if the Lakers are healthy. I can't say that about many West teams, but those two can't beat the Lakers in a 7 game series.

I understand that about matchups. another thing I understand is come playoff time anyone can lose. When you look at GS and dallas on paper one team was clearly better than the other. the warriors had confidence because they were the only team in the NBA that won all their games vs. dallas......that I know of. and dallas was probably as confident as you are in your lakers vs. those teams. just look back to avery johnson benching his players in a game vs. the warriors to end the season that could of eliminated GS from the playoffs all together. the lakers do have kobe a champion so I give them that. outside of him the others have a lot ahead of them come playoff time. they aren't exactly loaded with playoff experience. Houston hasn't made it out of the first round. Dallas and phoenix have plenty of experience but haven't broke through with a title that maybe they should have won already. NO is green. GS is questionable. Utah is a wild card....definitley had a break through last year and I wouldn't want to play those guys.

I wish I were as confident in my mavs as you are your lakers. I wish we had an injury plauged bynum who will magically return to form without playing time. or I wish we had Pao Gasol. he's the difference maker in the WC. All of these teams have great players and can get hot come playoff time. the lakers better play on top of their game or they will lose in the first round like any other team can.

 

[Lorenzo]

here is my take on the west. I look at all of the matchups and I don't see one team that sticks out and has another team under their thumb 1-8. maybe the spurs have a slight mental edge over the suns and their fans LOL...joke. they have stern on their side of course.

I'll start with the only team with real TEAM championship bling at the moment.

1.SA-they have it all. experience, success. offense..defense. they do everything well. The only bad thing you can say is they are old. but what's wrong with having guys who know what it takes to win it all? Isn't that what all the other teams tried to do with trades? The only thing negative you can say is they haven't won back to back which isn't really a knock a team that is lead by a HOFer who has won 4 titles in a decade.

2. Houston-22 games is impressive. especially without the best center in the WC...maybe the nba. but they haven't won a first round series yet. I don't know that they will this year either. at some point they are going to start missing yao. and will those guys lock up again come playoff time? their role players are playing out of their mind right now. they will have to keep it up.

3. N.O.- they are the surprise team of the nba. but watching paul is not surprising. He is the MVP of the WC(james of the nba). paul makes that team a contender...and if they just play like they have against the top teams come playoff time like they have in the regular season they have a legit shot. they do lack playoff experience and that might be their downfall.

4. Utah-this team is very explosive offensively. williams is right there behind Chris Paul in the WC PG totum pole. boozer speaks for himself. Utah also has a supporting cast to get it done. their biggest ? is consistency at the defensive end. and consistency period away from home. but not all of these teams have great road records so they aren't too far off.

5. LA LAKERS-kobe bryant enough said. that's the reason why this team is a contender now that he has a legit supporting cast. He has been the best player in bball for a while(up until this season), but the lakers have taken time to assemble. they aren't dominant like many lakers fans are trying to make them be. at least the ones I know personally. they aren't necessarily ahead of any of the top teams with or without their injured big men.....especially given bynum's circumstances. their non-kobe players also have never accomplished a lot of or any playoff success.

6. Phoenix-This is a dangerous team for obvious reasons. Steve nash is a complete offensive PG and has plenty of playoff experience. He has only lost in the first round once in his career that I recall. and that was on a team much weaker than the one he leads now. the nba is much stronger now...so this may be his biggest first round test since his last year in dallas. Shaq is a ? a good piece vs. the spurs......maybe I don't know. I don't know how he plays out for this team. Amare is amare, but he has to step up his defense and rebounding in the playoffs.

7. Dallas-A lot of playoff experience. they have a lot of players who have won big time playoff games. but they also lack players who haven't had multiple playoff letdowns. this team may be shell shocked somewhat after the finals and GS. Maybe that's why they brought in kidd. but getting him on the same page with everyone won't be so easy. If they can manage that they will have a shot..but still a very tough road just to get out of round one.

8. GS-Denv-I really don't know which one of these will make it. these are two offensive only teams if there is ever such a team in this conference. just look at denver last night. GS is a don nelson offensive team so we know what they can do. he is an offensive genius. but a defensive letdown. that's why neither one of these teams will make it beyond round 2 IMO. and that's if they catch some extreme fire from the 3 point line like GS did last year in round 1.

 

[arwillan]

I understand that about matchups. another thing I understand is come playoff time anyone can lose. When you look at GS and dallas on paper one team was clearly better than the other. the warriors had confidence because they were the only team in the NBA that won all their games vs. dallas......that I know of. and dallas was probably as confident as you are in your lakers vs. those teams. just look back to avery johnson benching his players in a game vs. the warriors to end the season that could of eliminated GS from the playoffs all together. the lakers do have kobe a champion so I give them that. outside of him the others have a lot ahead of them come playoff time. they aren't exactly loaded with playoff experience. Houston hasn't made it out of the first round. Dallas and phoenix have plenty of experience but haven't broke through with a title that maybe they should have won already. NO is green. GS is questionable. Utah is a wild card....definitley had a break through last year and I wouldn't want to play those guys.

I wish I were as confident in my mavs as you are your lakers. I wish we had an injury plauged bynum who will magically return to form without playing time. or I wish we had Pao Gasol. he's the difference maker in the WC. All of these teams have great players and can get hot come playoff time. the lakers better play on top of their game or they will lose in the first round like any other team can.

they also have a fellow by the name of derek fisher. he's been through as much in the post season as kobe has.

 

[arwillan]

1.SA-they have it all. experience, success. offense..defense. they do everything well. The only bad thing you can say is they are old. but what's wrong with having guys who know what it takes to win it all? Isn't that what all the other teams tried to do with trades? The only thing negative you can say is they haven't won back to back which isn't really a knock a team that is lead by a HOFer who has won 4 titles in a decade.


8. GS-Denv-I really don't know which one of these will make it. these are two offensive only teams if there is ever such a team in this conference. just look at denver last night. GS is a don nelson offensive team so we know what they can do. he is an offensive genius. but a defensive letdown. that's why neither one of these teams will make it beyond round 2 IMO. and that's if they catch some extreme fire from the 3 point line like GS did last year in round 1.

about the spurs: i take it you haven't watched them recently? their defense has allowed 10 more ppg, and their offense is scoring about 9 less iirc. They don't really have it all anymore, they are clearly on the downswing. Their chances in the playoffs this year are looked slim, though i will never count them out.

While denver is an offensive team, they have the potential to be very good defensively with effort and proper coaching. They have the best defending big man in the game in Camby, an excellent post defender in Martin, a very scrappy allen iverson with speed to match, and atkins who is also a good defender. They have some quality bench players too. Their major downfall is that they don't care about defense, which is why they don't have as much success as you think they would with the talent that they have.

I also hope that in your post you aren't trying to imply that Paul or Williams is better than nash. that would be a big mistake.

 

[jagu]

The Suns have to avoid cheap fouls by Amare and stay out of foul trouble. Amare needs to just let them score and not go for a reach in foul. Once he gets that straight he'll be okay. He's vastly improved defensively and he can guard the PF's fairly easily. I think the Suns, if they found their stride, will be a tough matchup for most teams.. Legitamate threat inside and outside.

 

[Lorenzo]

they also have a fellow by the name of derek fisher. he's been through as much in the post season as kobe has.

I agree with that. and he won't be the absolute difference maker, but he is capable of hitting one of those game winning shots if kobe is covered.

 

[Lorenzo]

about the spurs: i take it you haven't watched them recently? their defense has allowed 10 more ppg, and their offense is scoring about 9 less iirc. They don't really have it all anymore, they are clearly on the downswing. Their chances in the playoffs this year are looked slim, though i will never count them out.

While denver is an offensive team, they have the potential to be very good defensively with effort and proper coaching. They have the best defending big man in the game in Camby, an excellent post defender in Martin, a very scrappy allen iverson with speed to match, and atkins who is also a good defender. They have some quality bench players too. Their major downfall is that they don't care about defense, which is why they don't have as much success as you think they would with the talent that they have.

I also hope that in your post you aren't trying to imply that Paul or Williams is better than nash. that would be a big mistake.

seriously how could you argue with my unbiased post?
every good team have their bad weeks or stretches.......especially this season. the suns had one lately where they dropped three at home and got kicked around in the process. and if you want to make excuses for your suns... the spurs have had injuries this year and made personnel moves too. parker hasn't really got back to his old self yet. the spurs are losing close games, but they were done last year right? it was mavs, suns, mavs, suns, ect. and you know that's what 90% of the people were talking about on here. now the spurs are finished because they've lost some games in the reg. season? I'm not saying they will win it all. I'm saying they are the only team that knows what it takes to win it all. TEAM being the key word. every other team may have one or two players at most that have been there done that. I also don't see the spurs just being a non-factor in the playoffs. they will turn it on and if are beaten it will take someone's best shot. probably 6 or 7 games like dallas two years ago.....that actually had a 3-1 lead.

nash? he is my fav PG alongside jason kidd now. any person outside of arizona would tell you that chris paul is better than nash this season. chris paul should be the mvp.....he or james. but if the voting goes like it has been in recent years(nash and dirk perfect examples) paul should win it. williams is right there with nash. Notice i complimented nash for his playoff experience. which will be vital. but you know how many rings he has.......the same as my favorite bball player.

I don't dispute what you say about denver. It still doesn't change the fact that they aren't a defensive team like you and I said. that's what I meant and that's at least on thing we agree with anyway.

 

[Lorenzo]

I just looked at nba.com. nash PPG is 17 and 11.4 APG. Paul PPG is 21 and APG 11.3. When you look at his supporting cast(which is inferior to nash's). then their head to head matchups which is what everyone votes upon when records and stats are close......paul is better this year in the regular season.

Williams scores more PPG than nash, but only has an APG of 10 LOL. and baron davis PPG is 22 while APG is only 8. There are some PG's that will give nash all that he can handle and more come playoff time. just look at the regular season matchups.

 

[Cheesewater]

I just looked at nba.com. nash PPG is 17 and 11.4 APG. Paul PPG is 21 and APG 11.3. When you look at his supporting cast(which is inferior to nash's). then their head to head matchups which is what everyone votes upon when records and stats are close......paul is better this year in the regular season.

Williams scores more PPG than nash, but only has an APG of 10 LOL. and baron davis PPG is 22 while APG is only 8. There are some PG's that will give nash all that he can handle and more come playoff time. just look at the regular season matchups.

Paul is better on paper for sure. But there are other things that are taken into account. I don't think Paul is yet ready to quickly recover from hip-checks and bloody noses. Meaning, with some seasoning and experience he will one day be as good as Nash. Not yet though. Just sayin'.

 

[Lorenzo]

Paul is better on paper for sure. But there are other things that are taken into account. I don't think Paul is yet ready to quickly recover from hip-checks and bloody noses. Meaning, with some seasoning and experience he will one day be as good as Nash. Not yet though. Just sayin'.

Paul is better this regular season for sure.....on the court and on paper. there is nothing to argue.

I give nash the experience factor. time will only tell if paul can take a hard foul. my guess is he will get back up and play just like nash does. nash isn't lightyears ahead of paul in the fact that nash still has something to prove. and we all know what that is. I watched every game nash played in dallas. and for some reason he has been labled soft and unathletic even by walton in the past. but the guy takes every shot in stride and he is a winner. he is not a good defender, but he has done everything in this league but win a title. if my mavs get eliminated i want nash to win. but for nash and nash alone. I don't like shaq who is a bandwagoneer.

 

[nowagimp]

I just looked at nba.com. nash PPG is 17 and 11.4 APG. Paul PPG is 21 and APG 11.3. When you look at his supporting cast(which is inferior to nash's). then their head to head matchups which is what everyone votes upon when records and stats are close......paul is better this year in the regular season.

Williams scores more PPG than nash, but only has an APG of 10 LOL. and baron davis PPG is 22 while APG is only 8. There are some PG's that will give nash all that he can handle and more come playoff time. just look at the regular season matchups.

CP3 cannot play defense straight up against either baron davis or DWil. I suspect(but have not seen) that CP3 also cannot play defense against Billups either, he's just not strong enough. The difference is that CP3 has had a serious shot blocker(Tyson chandler) behind him the whole time, whose job it is to keeps CP3's man from doing damage in the lane. If CP3 played for the "shawn marion suns", he'd be abused on defense alot. Dont get me wrong, I love CP3's game, but aside from steals, he's not a good defender at the point. Right now I might take DWil over CP3 as a point, 1 asst/game notwithstanding. DWil is a better shooter(40% from 3), and a better defender, though he turns ball over a little more(2.9/2.5)

In comparing CP3 to Nash I'd say in the regular season CP3 has been better this year. Now, we will see in the playoffs whether CP3 can make the big shot when he must. DWil has shown that he is an outstanding big game performer in last years playoffs. CP3 still needs to prove his worth in the post season. CP3 is 9% less accurate than Nash from 3 this year(36.8%). He seems to either make shots when needed or someone else does(like peja or pargo). On the suns over the last few years, Nash has HAD to make those perimeter shots ... or else the suns lose. The suns have had no peja or pargo to take up the slack on the perimeter this year.

This past year, the pressure on Nash has gone up alot as Bell and LB have been very inconsistent from 3pt range. Without those shooters to space the floor, Nashs job becomes alot more difficult. I would dare to say that CP3 has had much better spacing to work with this year than nash.

 

[Lorenzo]

CP3 cannot play defense straight up against either baron davis or DWil. I suspect(but have not seen) that CP3 also cannot play defense against Billups either, he's just not strong enough. The difference is that CP3 has had a serious shot blocker(Tyson chandler) behind him the whole time, whose job it is to keeps CP3's man from doing damage in the lane. If CP3 played for the "shawn marion suns", he'd be abused on defense alot. Dont get me wrong, I love CP3's game, but aside from steals, he's not a good defender at the point. Right now I might take DWil over CP3 as a point, 1 asst/game notwithstanding. DWil is a better shooter(40% from 3), and a better defender, though he turns ball over a little more(2.9/2.5)

In comparing CP3 to Nash I'd say in the regular season CP3 has been better this year. Now, we will see in the playoffs whether CP3 can make the big shot when he must. DWil has shown that he is an outstanding big game performer in last years playoffs. CP3 still needs to prove his worth in the post season. CP3 is 9% less accurate than Nash from 3 this year(36.8%). He seems to either make shots when needed or someone else does(like peja or pargo). On the suns over the last few years, Nash has HAD to make those perimeter shots ... or else the suns lose. The suns have had no peja or pargo to take up the slack on the perimeter this year.

This past year, the pressure on Nash has gone up alot as Bell and LB have been very inconsistent from 3pt range. Without those shooters to space the floor, Nashs job becomes alot more difficult. I would dare to say that CP3 has had much better spacing to work with this year than nash.

that all may be true. I look at the big games in the regular season and paul has played admirably....more so than nash. I never said that paul is a great defender...while he does steal the bball very well better than some not all PGs. but his defense can't be the difference between he and nash this year anyway. billups, kidd, and davis are all good defenders at their position. and I love williams' game. he is right there with paul IMO. but paul has just been such a great clutch player this season. look at last nights game again.

I can only go by what I watch. that's paul plays on a team that has less talent up front than phoenix IMO. they have no amare/shaq combo. chandler is more than adequate. west is a good player, but they don't compare. peja is a good shooter....but hill is probably is just as if not more effecient than peja offensively. the suns have good perimeter jump shooters on their team though. and yes they go cold....but every jump shooter goes cold at times. N.O. is probably better from an overall depth standpoint..but IDK that either.

 

[nowagimp]

that all may be true. I look at the big games in the regular season and paul has played admirably....more so than nash. I never said that paul is a great defender...while he does steal the bball very well better than some not all PGs. but his defense can't be the difference between he and nash this year anyway. billups, kidd, and davis are all good defenders at their position. and I love williams' game. he is right there with paul IMO. but paul has just been such a great clutch player this season. look at last nights game again.

I can only go by what I watch. that's paul plays on a team that has less talent up front than phoenix IMO. they have no amare/shaq combo. chandler is more than adequate. west is a good player, but they don't compare. peja is a good shooter....but hill is probably is just as if not more effecient than peja offensively. the suns have good perimeter jump shooters on their team though. and yes they go cold....but every jump shooter goes cold at times. N.O. is probably better from an overall depth standpoint..but IDK that either.

First: shaq+amare is still being worked out, its training camp, so what you have seen of nashs defensive assignments success is mostly shawn+amare, which was inferior defensively to the hornets in the lane(can we at least agree there?).

2nd: a great hill fan here but but shjooters open up the floor for the PG. I'd take peja over anyone on the suns for that(opening up the floor). Peja has shot 46% from 3 to hills 32%, HUGE difference, just huge. Do ya think defenses stay on peja at the 3 pt line compared with hill? Even take away Peja, CP3 gets doubled much faster on the penetration.

3rd: Bell and Barbosa have shot (38, 39 vs 43, 41) off from last year, it hurts spacing, regardless of what you or I see. These guys have only recently started shooting better, they were at 35% fro a good part of the season. As a post defender, tyson chandler is better defending CP3's man on a penetration than either amare or shawn(or shaq for that matter). So, CP3 is effective anc clutch to his credit, but he has more spacing to work with. Hills value is as a mid range shooter and playmaking when nash is on the bench, he's not comparable to Peja in facillitating the PG's stats or effectiveness.

4th: big games in the regular season are probably just coming around, even then they are regular season games. If big games in the regular season were all that, the suns would be champs(champs of the regular season). Things change int he playoffs, players play more physical, CP3 has not seen this at all. DWil has, and he has been dominant, outstanding, better than the regular season. Nash has been outstanding and has taken a beating that CP3 has never experienced, but will with his similarly small stature(physically).