This Is The Cardinals Fault!!!!!!

[Darkside]

Was it on the day they tweeted about a former Colts pro bowler throwing to Moss? If so, that's a lot of chutzpah.

Yep, they tweeted a lot of funny stuff like that before we decided to take them seriously.

 

[Lorenzo]

If this is truly the case, I hope Manning goes to the Titans and Alex Smith signs with another team. Karma is truly a bitch.

and hopefully the cardinals take note and return the favor in the future. teams do this to one another all of the time. the giants often sign former cowboys/redskins etc. and the eagles swooped in under the cowboys/jets last year and signed asomuah(or however its spelled) right under them...in spite of people not thinking that the eagles needed him. it's part of the comptetive business. all I'm saying is that whiz should be taking notes...

in the end the eagles wound up being the losers. the "dream team" didn't work out so well. it was the giants that wern't expected to win the division that won in the end. the giant fans were whining because the giants were allowing the eagles to make all of those moves even taking away steve smith. and in the end who's laughing now? I think the cardinals may be singing the same tune pretty soon if the 49ers cave.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The NFL is a pretty tight circle. Just because the media likes to sensationalize things like "secret workout", I have no doubt front office and personnel of other teams knew Manning worked out with SF. I mean, C'mom, we have grainy video from a fence opening at Duke. Do you reallly think people in the NFL didn't know about his workout?

 

[THESMEL]

well

Whiz would have cut him for talking to the press at the last preseason game anyhow? Kolb will be a much cheaper emotional cut.


John Clayton came on at 1:15am and was asked what happened to Miami and Arizona....Why are they out....He said for the Cardinals it was time!!! He said Manning was very interested...but time hit and they paid Kolb. Manning wasn't really interested in Miami.

This really pisses me off now!!! The Cardinals drug their feet. I mean why not cut Kolb...Go all in for Manning...It isn't like Skelton is worse than Kolb!!! If they would have went all in for Manning, and flew out there to watch him...Bring Fitzgerald to the meetings and workouts...I feel Manning might have chosen us.

You could hear it in Mortensen's voice when he said...Manning was extremely intrigued with us...and he is very close to Whiz!!!

WTF...why wouldn't we go all out like Denver and Tennessee??[/quote]

 

[JeffGollin]

...The Cardinals drug their feet. I mean why not cut Kolb...Go all in for Manning......why wouldn't we go all out like Denver and Tennessee??

Question - If we cut Kolb and didn't sign Manning where would we be then? (Answer: With Skelton, Bartel and 7-mil cap relief).

Not that I don't like Skelton, but he's still relatively uproven as a prime-time QB. A QB lineup of Skelton & Bartel would leave us pretty thin & shaky.

Your second question - Why didn't we go all in for Manning like Denver & Tennessee? The answer is, I think: "Because even if we did, it wouldn't have been enough." Which, in my mind, raises a follow-up question:

"If we knew we didn't have enough competitive juice (especially given the Kolb time constraint) why take part in the rat-race at all?"

 

[imaCafan]

Question - If we cut Kolb and didn't sign Manning where would we be then? (Answer: With Skelton, Bartel and 7-mil cap relief).

Not that I don't like Skelton, but he's still relatively uproven as a prime-time QB. A QB lineup of Skelton & Bartel would leave us pretty thin & shaky.

Your second question - Why didn't we go all in for Manning like Denver & Tennessee? The answer is, I think: "Because even if we did, it wouldn't have been enough." Which, in my mind, raises a follow-up question:

"If we knew we didn't have enough competitive juice (especially given the Kolb time constraint) why take part in the rat-race at all?"

To your final Q....maybe they did the Manning chase so they could justify sitting on their hands while the best and most expensive FA's get signed elsewhere, then they could sign the "best of the rest" and save $$$$$.....

 

[CardsFan88]

Of course it's the Cardinals fault we're still not in the running, but even if we were to have cut Kolb, there is no sure thing we'd get Manning. Still worth the shot though.

We made the decision (wrong one imo) to keep Koncussion Kolb around, which would seem like an ok move, if he didn't have the Koncussion issues. But he does. Anyone counting on a QB who gets Koncussions the frequency he's gotten them is a fool. To do so in a deadline to take yourself out of the Manning sweepstakes is downright moronic. This was our chance to get rid of obvious dead weight in Kolb. We missed it, even if we had the additional bonus of an opportunity to get Manning to replace Kolb.

I said it before it happened. If Manning tells us no, will he be really telling us no, or telling us no because of the deadline? Because the two are wholly different. One way is OK, the other way is because the Cards FO screwed up. I love the Cards either way, but that's what it is.

Who the hell lets the deadline affect their decisions solely? It's not as if we have anything certain with Kolb even beyond the Koncussions.

We were still in the running, but our FO let the Kolb situation take us out of the running. Which was the stupidest way to look at it. We could of gotten out of his contract, and had our best shot at getting a franchise QB. This situation will not repeat. This was a one off chance, and we thought our chances were better with Kolb? Insane.

We're still going to have to get out of his contract at some point, except when we do, and we will, there won't be a Peyton Manning to go after.

So to keep someone who is basically worthless because we feared losing him and whatever talent he may have but can't showcase because of Koncussions and injuries, we won't have a shot at a franchise QB this year, next year, or any time in the foreseeable future. Even if you find a decent franchise QB, it won't be of Peyton Manning's stature.

Our front office made the wrong call.

I'm ok with it, because I don't expect our FO to be perfect. But really, even an idiot should have realized that just because you have Kolb signed, doesn't mean you really have anything signed. You just have someone eating cap space that could go to Manning or elsewhere even without Manning.

I would rather go into next season with either Manning or Skelton. There are some other reasons as well.

If it was Skelton, then we gave the Manning sweepstakes our best shot, which only occurs if you have your offer open the whole time. But if we didn't land Manning, there's two advanatages. One you could get a QB in that is reliable either as starter or backup. Two, if Skelton is the starter, you have the whole offseason to prepare him as one.

Instead we're going to go in with Koncussion Kolb one hit away from possible retirement (but in the far more realistic sense than the usual 'one hit away or any given sunday' type line), and Skelton once again won't have gotten the preparation he should have gotten.

If our front office had any brains they could get back into the Manning sweepstakes. But it's obvious they won't.

We're with Kolb until he gets Koncussed or something else and Skelton takes over. I like Skelton, but you take Manning over him. They should have been prepared to do what it takes to get Manning. They weren't. Other teams are. We won't have Manning. Kolb will get Koncussed. Skelton will come in as a backup rather than a prepared throughout the whole offseason as the starters and took the reps.

I sure hope Kolb doesn't get Koncussed, but hope doesn't change a dang thing. You could call that, hope only a fool can believe in.

But with going all out for Manning we either get him or not and Skelton is best prepared to play. Also why do we even put these outs in the contract if we're not going to use them. Seriously, when a QB obviously has no future due to Koncussions, let alone anything else, and you have the opportunity for Peyton Manning doesn't get you to trigger that out, what the hell will ever get you to pull such a trigger? Does God in a chariot have to come down and drop off a QB himself for us to take that contractual out? Because we had it set up perfectly, and we whiffed. We don't have anything in Kolb. Why do people still think we are losing something if we lose Kolb? What has he proven? What happens with Koncussions? It's like saying you think Sidney Crosby is going to have a long career. Yeah right. Kolb hasn't proven to be anything in the NFL but take a paycheck and fill a roster spot. There is no certainty with keeping him, if anything it makes things more uncertain, and certainly more cap unfriendly. To use the bird in a hand analogy, first you have to see if the bird is even alive...and with a little literary leeway, the Koncussions means that the bird isn't alive.

Since it is all water under the bridge and spilled milk, the only reason to realize how badly this was handled is so we don't get fooled as a fan or in rl when another situation comes along. This is a situation worth laying out, because it teaches us many things. Mostly not to ignore the obvious, a gift horse of all gift horses, and many more lessons.

 

[Lorenzo]

Question - If we cut Kolb and didn't sign Manning where would we be then? (Answer: With Skelton, Bartel and 7-mil cap relief).

Not that I don't like Skelton, but he's still relatively uproven as a prime-time QB. A QB lineup of Skelton & Bartel would leave us pretty thin & shaky.

Your second question - Why didn't we go all in for Manning like Denver & Tennessee? The answer is, I think: "Because even if we did, it wouldn't have been enough." Which, in my mind, raises a follow-up question:

"If we knew we didn't have enough competitive juice (especially given the Kolb time constraint) why take part in the rat-race at all?"

I agree with you, but I think the cardinals had to pursue PM. and I think whiz's statement is actually 100% on the money with their plans all along.

What if they didn't go after manning at all though and issued a statement to the press that said something along the lines of "we don't feel that we can sign peyton to a contract comapred to the other teams that are in pursuit" then imagine the backlash that the organization would have had to deal with especially when 2 teams in their division are in the sweepstakes.

 

[Lorenzo]

To your final Q....maybe they did the Manning chase so they could justify sitting on their hands while the best and most expensive FA's get signed elsewhere, then they could sign the "best of the rest" and save $$$$$.....

I don't think it is that at all. but if their approach was to go after other huge money guys they would not have been able to enter the manning chase. having said that you can't sit still and allow peyton's fate to determine the fate of your organization. and clearly the cardinals did not allow that to happen. they tried and when petyon wasn't ready to make a decision they backed out. it was the right move.

the more I think about it, i think tennessee is the right move for peyton. they have a young draft pick in wait and if peyton doesn't last for more than a year or two or is a disappointment it really doesn't change a whole lot there(other than money). for the other organizations, a failed peyton experiement would be a huge setback for their franchise. it should be interesting to see what happens and I don't know that the cardinals are going to regret their decision on this one. this isn't like passing AD in the draft.

 

[FrustratedFan04]

If Manning was "so intrigued" with us, then he should have signed a contract.

bingo!

 

[Lorenzo]

The NFL is a pretty tight circle. Just because the media likes to sensationalize things like "secret workout", I have no doubt front office and personnel of other teams knew Manning worked out with SF. I mean, C'mom, we have grainy video from a fence opening at Duke. Do you reallly think people in the NFL didn't know about his workout?

you are right. a lot of times teams don't like to tell one another about their plans, but information gets out. for all we know peyton told the cardinals that he worked out for harbaugh. for petyon it would make sense that he would tell them that in order to drive up the price. I don't see how he would benefit from hiding it, while it obviously would benefit the 49ers to keep it from their own players because of alex smith.

 

[JeffGollin]

I agree with you, but I think the cardinals had to pursue PM. and I think whiz's statement is actually 100% on the money with their plans all along.

What if they didn't go after manning at all though and issued a statement to the press that said something along the lines of "we don't feel that we can sign peyton to a contract comapred to the other teams that are in pursuit" then imagine the backlash that the organization would have had to deal with especially when 2 teams in their division are in the sweepstakes.

My background is PR, and I've found that the wisest course of action usually is to be open and to tell the complete truth.

Few people do things because they. don't think they're doing the best thing for themselves. But they get into trouble when they feel embarrassed about secret motives or strategy and either cover up the truth or only tell part of the story.

The public is inclined to cut most people a break if they think they're being leveled with.

If Wiz & Co. felt the effort was touch & go because of the Kolb situation but that we'd still take our best shot and let the chips fall because we otherwise had a good story to tell, no one would criticize him from saying that from the very beginning.

Or if we told the Mannings (& the public) that we planned to sign Kolb in any event and it would be up to them to decide whether we'd remain a suitor, that would have been preferable to raising false hopes and not being 100% forthright with the fans.

 

[Lorenzo]

My background is PR, and I've found that the wisest course of action usually is to be open and to tell the complete truth.

Few people do things because they. don't think they're doing the best thing for themselves. But they get into trouble when they feel embarrassed about secret motives or strategy and either cover up the truth or only tell part of the story.

The public is inclined to cut most people a break if they think they're being leveled with.

If Wiz & Co. felt the effort was touch & go because of the Kolb situation but that we'd still take our best shot and let the chips fall because we otherwise had a good story to tell, no one would criticize him from saying that from the very beginning.

Or if we told the Mannings (& the public) that we planned to sign Kolb in any event and it would be up to them to decide whether we'd remain a suitor, that would have been preferable to raising false hopes and not being forthright with the fans.

I agree 100%

 

[Crazy Canuck]

My background is PR, and I've found that the wisest course of action usually is to be open and to tell the complete truth.

Few people do things because they. don't think they're doing the best thing for themselves. But they get into trouble when they feel embarrassed about secret motives or strategy and either cover up the truth or only tell part of the story.

The public is inclined to cut most people a break if they think they're being leveled with.

If Wiz & Co. felt the effort was touch & go because of the Kolb situation but that we'd still take our best shot and let the chips fall because we otherwise had a good story to tell, no one would criticize him from saying that from the very beginning.

Or if we told the Mannings (& the public) that we planned to sign Kolb in any event and it would be up to them to decide whether we'd remain a suitor, that would have been preferable to raising false hopes and not being 100 forthright with the fans.

Sorry, I never felt in anyway mislead by the Cards role in this process.

 

[JeffGollin]

My background is PR, and I've found that the wisest course of action usually is to be open and to tell the complete truth...

The above post was prematurely cut off by unexpected guests, and I never got the chance to edit it properly to make the point I wanted to make. It's just this:

Anything most people do is done for noble reasons (at least in their own minds). As such, there is usually "a nugget of truth" behind what they give as their reasons for doing stuff - that often gets hidden or ommitted (because they want to score argumentative brownie points, promote an agenda or are afraid their original motives will be criticized).

Good PR seeks to drill down to that core truth-nugget and make it the center piece of any public statement because (1) people will usually cut slack if they feel they're being leveled with and (2) "credibility is gold" (i.e. it will make it easier for folks to believe what you tell them next).

Sometimes I feel our decision-makers - be they from business, politics or football-ownership - tend to be less informative than they need to be.

That's all I wanted to say.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The above post was prematurely cut off by unexpected guests, and I never got the chance to edit it properly to make the point I wanted to make. It's just this:

Anything most people do is done for noble reasons (at least in their own minds). As such, there is usually "a nugget of truth" behind what they give as their reasons for doing stuff - that often gets hidden or ommitted (because they want to score argumentative brownie points, promote an agenda or are afraid their original motives will be criticized).

Good PR seeks to drill down to that core truth-nugget and make it the center piece of any public statement because (1) people will usually cut slack if they feel they're being leveled with and (2) "credibility is gold" (i.e. it will make it easier for folks to believe what you tell them next).

Sometimes I feel our decision-makers - be they from business, politics or football-ownership - tend to be less informative than they need to be.That's all I wanted to say.

True. But too often PR people want to drive agendas without a full understanding of the ramifications. Policy before PR is my mantra.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think the cardinals had to pursue PM....
What if they didn't go after manning at all though and issued a statement to the press that said something along the lines of "we don't feel that we can sign peyton to a contract comapred to the other teams that are in pursuit" then imagine the backlash that the organization would have had to deal with especially when 2 teams in their division are in the sweepstakes.

If we said at the very beginning that the Kolb contract/bonus made it unrealistic to pursue Manning coupled with a comnent that essentially said: "We think we'll be fine with Kolb and Skelton", our fans would have grasped that reality and it would quickly have become a non-issue.

Regarding other teams in our division - Early in the process, the Mannings issued a statement that Seattle wasn't on their radar screen and all indications were, at the time, that the Niners preferred to stick with Alex Smith instead of pursuing Manning.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If we said at the very beginning that the Kolb contract/bonus made it unrealistic to pursue Manning coupled with a comnent that essentially said: "We think we'll be fine with Kolb and Skelton", our fans would have grasped that reality and it would quickly have become a non-issue.Regarding other teams in our division - Early in the process, the Mannings issued a statement that Seattle wasn't on their radar screen and all indications were, at the time, that the Niners preferred to stick with Alex Smith instead of pursuing Manning.

The evening before Whiz's press release saying "we" were out, Shefter reported that PM had informed AZ they were no longer in the running.

I so no reason why they would have to put out a statement, as you suggest, which basically says that poor AZ didn't have the coin to play at the big table.

 

[john h]

ESPN had Shefter and Mortensen on(around 12:45am when I heard that) Mortensen said we are out of the running now. But he said something that really made me think. He said the Cards went plan B and paid Kolb his money. He then said Manning was extremely intrigued by the Cardinals. he said he is really close with Ken Whisenhunt and the pieces we had here. He basically said the Cardinals ran out of time and Manning wanted to be thorough!

John Clayton came on at 1:15am and was asked what happened to Miami and Arizona....Why are they out....He said for the Cardinals it was time!!! He said Manning was very interested...but time hit and they paid Kolb. Manning wasn't really interested in Miami.

This really pisses me off now!!! The Cardinals drug their feet. I mean why not cut Kolb...Go all in for Manning...It isn't like Skelton is worse than Kolb!!! If they would have went all in for Manning, and flew out there to watch him...Bring Fitzgerald to the meetings and workouts...I feel Manning might have chosen us.

You could hear it in Mortensen's voice when he said...Manning was extremely intrigued with us...and he is very close to Whiz!!!

WTF...why wouldn't we go all out like Denver and Tennessee??

Not signing Manning may not be a fault but a good thing. The verdict on Manning will not be known until next year. I for one am not at all concerned we did not sign him. First, we did not have the money and would have to cut some people or restructure. We would have to insert a new offense to fit his game. He is a risk health wise no matter what you hear. I have had two fusions in my neck and I speak from experience. I still on occasion get twinges in my hands and shoulder. Not bad but if I were playing in the NFL it would scare the hell out of me. After only one year after a fusion surgery the graft is a long way from being as strong as it will be in two or three years. That is the plain and simple truth. The disc both below and above the fusion will take on an added load and are now subject to failure. One big hit and Peyton could go down. I looked at an MRI of my fusion one year after and looked again 3 years later and the difference was huge. I was 41 years old and not that far removed from Peyton's age and was in good shape running marathons and playing basketball everyday. For about 4 or more years after surgery I had twinges of pain in my fingers and arm until it finally subsided as the nerves regenerated. The other problem is this is always in the back of your mind and I was not playing in the NFL. It very well may effect how Peyton plays either consciously or subconsciously. You may get rid of the ball faster than you should. You may chose not to hang in there and take a hit. One other thing is you can not tip your head up as far as you once could. Not a lot of loss but there is definitely a loss of head mobility up and down. You are not the person you once were playing in the NFL IMHO>

 

[Azlen]

I think it's pretty clear by picking Denver that the whole AFC vs NFC thing was a pretty big deal and he picked a team in the weakest conference in the AFC.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I have a different opinion of how this thing went down. I think PM worked out for the Cards and he wasn't sharp so we told him thanks but no thanks. Why does he call Miami and say he isn't coming there? But no call to the cards? If there was indeed a time line one would think he would have called and at least said I'm interested can you wait for me? I think we tld him we wern't interesded, but didn't make that public as not to get other teams to think he wasn't the PM of old.

Of course that just my opinion and I could be way off base, it just seems that it went from two or three teams to five or six teams in a hurrry.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I think it's pretty clear by picking Denver that the whole AFC vs NFC thing was a pretty big deal and he picked a team in the weakest conference in the AFC.

You might be onto something. I just didn't see him going to Denver. I thought the Titans made more sense.

 

[chickenhead]

It does make it look like he's going all-in with the AFC West and ignoring the outdoor cold and high elevation. But the lack of receivers is what really puzzles me. We'll see how they address that. Are they trading up for Blackmon?

In any case, the first goal for any NFL team should be to win your division. It's a guaranteed playoff spot + a guaranteed home game, and after that anything is possible. Another reason for us to be glad Manning signed with Denver and not SF. The only way he can actually hurt the Cards this year is by losing to a team from the NFC South who then takes a Wild Card spot from Arizona.

 

[CardsFan88]

People dog Eddie Royal, but he had a great rookie season. It seems for whatever reason, the newer coaches didn't know how to use him and Tebow didn't help matters. Losing him will hurt.

I just have a feeling that they are on an opposite path than the Cardinals. The cardinals were once laughingstocks who have climbed into a relative respectable level.

Whereas I see the Broncos as a franchise that was once well respected but has been on the way down for many years, and probably gets far too much respect for what it really is.

Whatever has caused this, hasn't been changed. But they got Manning. Though will they put the pieces they need around him? We'll see. But if their franchise is on the way down from the inside, it may scuttle the effectiveness of the entire thing.

What does make sense is the AFC west is probably the worst in the NFL imo. Anyone know what's up with the Raiders now that Al is gone? Chargers are one of those teams that might move, and in either case they're on the cheap side, and then you have the chiefs...nuff said. It is the easiest path, even if Denver's front offices sucks, they suck less than the rest in the division.

It'll be interesting to see who they draft, what happens to Tebow, and how this whole thing plays out onto the field.

Thank god it isn't the niners though. Too bad they didn't wait a little longer for Smith to sign elsewhere. Even if he returns, Smith has got to be pissed off. Teach them a lesson Alex. When it comes to wannabe's, show the niners that they wannabe a team with a starting QB.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Yep.

I knew once we didn't sign him the chants of Graves sucks, fire Wiz, Cards are cheap, I hate Manning would take over.

Only 1 team was going to sign Manning & the rest of the teams along with it's fans would be highly disappointed. Oh well...the sun has rised in the East at my house