This organization is in a much better spot than a week ago

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Certainly the roster is better. However, I was hopeful of the league’s best defense.

I wanted a few more good LB'ers but I loved our picks.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This. Mahomes looks great. But Kyler isn't Mahomes. Mahomes has size, arm strength, leadership ability, and isn't a running QB. But we'll see how he looks when everyone can triple cover Travis Kelce.

I keep wanting to say I'm done arguing this, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How are people this obsessed with Kyler? The narrative isn't even slight caution, he's just already the best QB we'll ever see.

Ignorance. Running QB.

 

[Solar7]

Ignorance. Running QB.

Call it what you want, Mahomes isn't darting down the field for 67 yard touchdowns where he slips three defenders. His best rushing season in college was under 500 yards.

Kyler ran for 1,000.

 

[KYCardFan]

Kyler Murray > Josh Rosen is the main reason the fan base has hope, and they got Kyler weapons that he will use.

Rosen wasn't going to lead this team anywhere, he is Cutler 2.0 (Funny how the national media loves him now and pulling for him, the same people that trashed him last year).

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler Murray > Josh Rosen is the main reason the fan base has hope, and they got Kyler weapons that he will use.

Rosen wasn't going to lead this team anywhere, he is Cutler 2.0 (Funny how the national media loves him now and pulling for him, the same people that trashed him last year).

Who was trashing Josh Rosen last year? Anonymous scouts?

Jay Cutler was more physically talented than Rosen is, but Rosen has a better attitude. You've posted this same sentiment like 10 times in the last week; I'm shocked that I took the bait and responded to it.

 

[PACardsFan]

It can get worse. We won some games last year, and barely lost a few. Not really arguing that we were good or competitive... but I'm scared.

Every game we won last year, we should have lost. Our overall point differential was -200. That’s like Tampa Bay 1970’s bad. If we are worse than that, then MB should fire everyone and then sell the team.

 

[PACardsFan]

Patrick Mahomes's 2016 TTU team coached by Kliff Kingsbury went 5-7. He was MVP last season.

Maybe that's a Kliff Kingsbury red flag we're missing.

I liked the KK hire, but I loved the KM pick. IMO, there’s a higher risk that KK fails than if KM fails. Don’t kid yourself, Murray can be highly successful with or without KK.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Call it what you want, Mahomes isn't darting down the field for 67 yard touchdowns where he slips three defenders. His best rushing season in college was under 500 yards.

Kyler ran for 1,000.

I'm confused, are you suggesting that his 1000 yards rushing is somehow a negative? He got to 1000 yards largely because of the effectiveness of his runs and not because he was running all the time. That was actually on an average of 10 rushing attempts per game, some planned and some due to scrambling. Lamar for instance ran it 18 times per game for a total of 1600 yards, that is a "running QB". Kyler is simply a QB that can run extremely well if he needs to or if the defense leaves that option unguarded.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Every game we won last year, we should have lost. Our overall point differential was -200. That’s like Tampa Bay 1970’s bad. If we are worse than that, then MB should fire everyone and then sell the team.

Don't get me wrong, the team was definitely terrible last year, but that -200 is a bit misleading. 130 of those points come in just the 4 worst losses and while they were pretty lucky to even win 3, they still had like 3 other games that they lost that they probably should have won. The team was like 3 plays away from going 6-10 last year.

 

[TJ]

I liked the KK hire, but I loved the KM pick. IMO, there’s a higher risk that KK fails than if KM fails. Don’t kid yourself, Murray can be highly successful with or without KK.

Don't kid yourself. Both have very low floors and very high ceilings. Kliff literally proved he can't run a college team successfully. Kyler has only one year of experience starting in college and the unknown of his desire to stay in football.

 

[Solar7]

I'm confused, are you suggesting that his 1000 yards rushing is somehow a negative? He got to 1000 yards largely because of the effectiveness of his runs and not because he was running all the time. That was actually on an average of 10 rushing attempts per game, some planned and some due to scrambling. Lamar for instance ran it 18 times per game for a total of 1600 yards, that is a "running QB". Kyler is simply a QB that can run extremely well if he needs to or if the defense leaves that option unguarded.

Oh, no, I don't think his running ability is a negative. I think it's an awesome thing, and I get really excited watching him accelerate past defenders.

But it does scare me, at his size. I don't think he's a run-first QB, though. All I was trying to say is that pointing to Mahomes as a reason for Kyler's success is a poor comparison. Mahomes has all of the prototypical things you look for in a pocket QB. Kyler might be great, but Mahomes isn't his comp.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Oh, no, I don't think his running ability is a negative. I think it's an awesome thing, and I get really excited watching him accelerate past defenders.

But it does scare me, at his size. I don't think he's a run-first QB, though. All I was trying to say is that pointing to Mahomes as a reason for Kyler's success is a poor comparison. Mahomes has all of the prototypical things you look for in a pocket QB. Kyler might be great, but Mahomes isn't his comp.

He's about the same size of a lot of 5'10" RBs in the NFL (200ish pounds), but he will run significantly less often than them and he is good at avoiding big hits. He will run out of bounds or slide a lot when he scrambles and that will help keep him healthy.

 

[Solar7]

He's about the same size of a lot of 5'10" RBs in the NFL (200ish pounds), but he will run significantly less often than them and he is good at avoiding big hits. He will run out of bounds or slide a lot when he scrambles and that will help keep him healthy.

Ugh. This is the same thing I was just addressing in another thread. Just Kyler's magical ability to not take hits... the RB position and QB position are so fundamentally different.

A lot of these short guys outweigh Kyler by 30 lbs. And their careers last 7 years on average. And they don't have to throw the football, or touch the ball on every single play. We can't afford to have Kyler miss any time whatsoever. This is also part of the reason there's very rarely a single RB backfield in the NFL anymore. They have to split it.

RBs can take a lot of different hits and still contribute to the game, even though it's for a short time. Murray's elusiveness is super important, and if he loses it... we have a 5'10 pocket QB.

 

[HoodieBets]

The defense will be better just for the fact the offense will score more points and have a drastic reduction in 3 and outs.

Look at KC best fast paced offense does not equal better defense. The offense will move so fast the defense is going to be on the field close to the same amount of time. KC also had a lot of playmakers so it wasn’t like they were bad due to no talent.


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[PACardsFan]

Don't get me wrong, the team was definitely terrible last year, but that -200 is a bit misleading. 130 of those points come in just the 4 worst losses and while they were pretty lucky to even win 3, they still had like 3 other games that they lost that they probably should have won. The team was like 3 plays away from going 6-10 last year.

And 3 plays away from going 0-16. I'm sure if you watched any of that mess, you would have to come to terms that we looked much more like an 0-16 team than a 6-10 team.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ugh. This is the same thing I was just addressing in another thread. Just Kyler's magical ability to not take hits... the RB position and QB position are so fundamentally different.

A lot of these short guys outweigh Kyler by 30 lbs. And their careers last 7 years on average. And they don't have to throw the football, or touch the ball on every single play. We can't afford to have Kyler miss any time whatsoever. This is also part of the reason there's very rarely a single RB backfield in the NFL anymore. They have to split it.

RBs can take a lot of different hits and still contribute to the game, even though it's for a short time. Murray's elusiveness is super important, and if he loses it... we have a 5'10 pocket QB.

It's not "magical ability"...........

It's called understanding that you need to live to play another down and it is better to slide or go out of bounds than to take big hits trying to get a few more yards (a lot of QBs struggle with this choice). What is nearly magical with him though is his elusiveness which is understandable considering his size mixed with being very fast, very quick and having good use of hesitations and change of pace.

Those things will go a long way towards helping to keep him healthy. Of course he will still take some big hits as that is a natural part of football and he is a football player. However he is not some fragile little 5'6" 135 lb twig that you seem to be making him out to be. He can take some big hits and be just fine. The key is to not take a bunch of unnecessary hits that other QBs in the past have made the mistake of taking. I don't believe Kyler will do that.

As to the RB comparison. Sure Kyler isn't quite as thick as those guys are, but he also won't be running 20 times a game nor will he be running it up the gut into multiple 300+ lb lineman multiple times per game.

 

[slanidrac16]

Look at KC best fast paced offense does not equal better defense. The offense will move so fast the defense is going to be on the field close to the same amount of time. KC also had a lot of playmakers so it wasn’t like they were bad due to no talent.


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That will be a nice problem to have. If the defense is on the field as much as last year but we’re scoring twice as many points, I’ll take it because I think this defense is going to be improved especially against the run.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ugh. This is the same thing I was just addressing in another thread. Just Kyler's magical ability to not take hits... the RB position and QB position are so fundamentally different.

A lot of these short guys outweigh Kyler by 30 lbs. And their careers last 7 years on average. And they don't have to throw the football, or touch the ball on every single play. We can't afford to have Kyler miss any time whatsoever. This is also part of the reason there's very rarely a single RB backfield in the NFL anymore. They have to split it.

RBs can take a lot of different hits and still contribute to the game, even though it's for a short time. Murray's elusiveness is super important, and if he loses it... we have a 5'10 pocket QB.

All those 5'10, 230 RBs! LOL

And if you even watched a lick of Murray tape you would know what people are talking about. You choose to be ignorant.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's not "magical ability"...........

It's called understanding that you need to live to play another down and it is better to slide or go out of bounds than to take big hits trying to get a few more yards (a lot of QBs struggle with this choice). What is nearly magical with him though is his elusiveness which is understandable considering his size mixed with being very fast, very quick and having good use of hesitations and change of pace.

Those things will go a long way towards helping to keep him healthy. Of course he will still take some big hits as that is a natural part of football and he is a football player. However he is not some fragile little 5'6" 135 lb twig that you seem to be making him out to be. He can take some big hits and be just fine. The key is to not take a bunch of unnecessary hits that other QBs in the past have made the mistake of taking. I don't believe Kyler will do that.

As to the RB comparison. Sure Kyler isn't quite as thick as those guys are, but he also won't be running 20 times a game nor will he be running it up the gut into multiple 300+ lb lineman multiple times per game.

Lincoln Riley said he never worried about Kyler getting hurt because Kyler knows how to avoid contact. He worried about Mayfield. But you know, Solar knows better! Murray is 5'3, and 90 lbs. He totes going to ger hurt.

 

[Solar7]

All those 5'10, 230 RBs! LOL

And if you even watched a lick of Murray tape you would know what people are talking about. You choose to be ignorant.

Doug Martin played at 5'9, 225.

Most of the shorter players at RB are 10-15 lbs heavier than Murray. Unfortunately I can't find a list of guys that's easily digestible of players in the 5'9-5'11 frame, so it'd be silly for us to just shout player names back and forth at each other.

Lincoln Riley said he never worried about Kyler getting hurt because Kyler knows how to avoid contact. He worried about Mayfield. But you know, Solar knows better! Murray is 5'3, and 90 lbs. He totes going to ger hurt.

I'd never wish injury on anyone, but I expect you to swallow your words later in the season if Kyler tweaks his ankle on a big hit and has to play with that element of his game stripped away.

13 games with the best offensive line in college football wouldn't have me panicked as a coach either.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Doug Martin played at 5'9, 225.

Most of the shorter players at RB are 10-15 lbs heavier than Murray. Unfortunately I can't find a list of guys that's easily digestible of players in the 5'9-5'11 frame, so it'd be silly for us to just shout player names back and forth at each other.


I'd never wish injury on anyone, but I expect you to swallow your words later in the season if Kyler tweaks his ankle on a big hit and has to play with that element of his game stripped away.

13 games with the best offensive line in college football wouldn't have me panicked as a coach either.

Barry Sanders. 5'8, 200.

You argument is so patently ridiculous that you cant even see it.

 

[Solar7]

Barry Sanders. 5'8, 200.

You argument is so patently ridiculous that you cant even see it.

You don't get my argument then.

Honestly, I'm concerned about any QB whose game relies on mobility. Or is enhanced by mobility, however you want to parse my words. I don't want a hurt 5'10 guy restricted to the pocket. Simple as that. I know, I know, you're going to tell me he's an amazing passer, the very best passer in the world, believe me.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You don't get my argument then.

Honestly, I'm concerned about any QB whose game relies on mobility. Or is enhanced by mobility, however you want to parse my words. I don't want a hurt 5'10 guy restricted to the pocket. Simple as that. I know, I know, you're going to tell me he's an amazing passer, the very best passer in the world, believe me.

Never said he was the best. Hes better than Josh Rosen.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You don't get my argument then.

Honestly, I'm concerned about any QB whose game relies on mobility. Or is enhanced by mobility, however you want to parse my words. I don't want a hurt 5'10 guy restricted to the pocket. Simple as that. I know, I know, you're going to tell me he's an amazing passer, the very best passer in the world, believe me.

I get your argument. It's just a stupid argument.

Barry took more hits than Murray ever will and he was around the same size.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You don't get my argument then.

Honestly, I'm concerned about any QB whose game relies on mobility. Or is enhanced by mobility, however you want to parse my words. I don't want a hurt 5'10 guy restricted to the pocket. Simple as that. I know, I know, you're going to tell me he's an amazing passer, the very best passer in the world, believe me.

I thought the same thing until I WATCHED FILM OF MURRAY PLAY.

Murray isn't Vick. He isn't Cam Newton. He doesn't rely on his mobility. No indicator, nor does watching film show that he. Most of the time, he hangs around the pocket, maybe moves out and throws. This isn't a guy who is running up the gut and taking hits like RGIII does. His running is much more similar to Russell Wilson. He runs when there is an open lane and then slides before anyone can hit him 95% of the time.

His touch and feel as a passer are tremendous. I will say elite for a college QB. It is the product of many years of reps and practice. There is a reason that Steve Keim, a veteran NFL GM and scout watched film of Murray and saw the exact same thing I see, Pro football Focus sees, and what many veteran talent evaluators see.

If Murray does fail, it will be because of the mental side of the game. Physically, he's as talented as any QB that has ever entered the NFL. Yes he's not tall, but we've seen Hall of Fame guys over the past few decades that aren't tall. That's why you see legendary GMs like Gil Brandt now say that they don't believe height matters in the NFL. For many years, teams had a silly bias against shorter guys, but that bias has been proven wrong.

Injury concerns? Why? He has never had any injury concerns.

Height concerns? Why? He has never shown any reason to be concerned about his height.

Mental side? That affects everyone and could be his undoing, just like it has been many QBs undoing.