Thoughts on Rolle, Leinart, FA & of course, The Draft

[earthsci]

Wilfork got tagged by the Pats...We can't get him.

That is not true. You can sign him but it comes with a penalty. I just don't know what the penalty would be.

Not on the Franchise Tag. We can't sign him even if we wanted to.

Goober and Moe,
It's a matter of semantics but you are both wrong. Wilfork was assigned the non-exclusive version of the franchise tag by the Patriots. That means that any team can negotiate with him. If a team makes Wilfork an offer the Patriots have a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses Wilfork, they are entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation. So, yes we can sign him.

Larry,
The reason that I said that it was a matter of semantics is that there is no way in God's green Earth that we are going to pay an assload of money to Wilfork and lose two first rounders.

 

[DoTheDew]

Here is the thing IMO. Although Snead in his Sophmore year did get worse in his Junior year, his Soph year wasnt anything special either. He was never great to begin with.


Here is a classic case of the media searching so hard for the next "IT" guy. They do it every year.

He might be book smart but not football smart.

Could be true. He definitely seems to have character issues too. Not as in he is a punk but just doesn't seem to have that competitive winner mentality that makes a Peyton Manning or Brett Farve succeed. I'd only consider him as an UDFA as a practice squad project. Granted that means after Leinart has one bad game Mitch will probably anoint him the starter .

He lost two guys that turned out to be pretty good: Michael Oher (who was in the running for offensive ROY) and Mike Wallace (who was solid and a surprise for the Steelers). We see quarterbacks all the time where the protection that they get from the OL and the talent they have at WR makes them look better than they are. Just look at most of the QBs that come out of Michigan, the U, and FLorida State if you need more evidence.

Sounds like classic case of a system QB to me.

 

[PoolBoy]

no way we take a qb this year. We will go with Leinart. If Leinart doesn't do well, we will be picking top 10 next year and we will go QB. If Leinart does do well, it will NOT be the same situation with Rolle because you can afford to pay a franchise qb the big bucks. not a barely above average safety.

 

[Mitch]

It's interesting...Whiz said recently about drafting a QB:

"You may not have the guy with the right stats you are looking for, but he can play the game. Look at Drew Brees. he's not the prototypical QB, but he got in the right situation in San Diego and look at him now."

This year Whiz will draft his first QB as Cardinals' head coach. It should be a very intriguing choice. The quote above may allude to passing stats or physical (Ht-Wt) stats (hence the Brees reference), but in either case Whiz knows what he wants in a QB.

Is the #26 pick out of the question? I say anything is possible, especially where QBs are concerned.

I maintain that I think the QB choice is more likely to come in the middle rounds, but I have a suspicion that it may come earlier than we think...especially since this isn't a deep or particularly strong QB draft class...which would indicate to me that if Whiz really likes McCoy, Pike, Tebow or Snead, the #26 and $57 picks are very much in play.

 

[Early]

It's interesting...Whiz said recently about drafting a QB:

"You may not have the guy with the right stats you are looking for, but he can play the game. Look at Drew Brees. he's not the prototypical QB, but he got in the right situation in San Diego and look at him now."

This year Whiz will draft his first QB as Cardinals' head coach. It should be a very intriguing choice. The quote above may allude to passing stats or physical (Ht-Wt) stats (hence the Brees reference), but in either case Whiz knows what he wants in a QB.

Is the #26 pick out of the question? I say anything is possible, especially where QBs are concerned.

I maintain that I think the QB choice is more likely to come in the middle rounds, but I have a suspicion that it may come earlier than we think...especially since this isn't a deep or particularly strong QB draft class...which would indicate to me that if Whiz really likes McCoy, Pike, Tebow or Snead, the #26 and $57 picks are very much in play.

Good to hear. Clausen is small in terms of physical stats, so it still could be him as well. My best bet would be the 1st goes for a QB.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

Good to hear. Clausen is small in terms of physical stats, so it still could be him as well. My best bet would be the 1st goes for a QB.

No way a 1st. 4-7 without a doubt. If Matt sucks then you take a QB early if you have to and let a vet play out a year here before you start him. But no way a 1st this year goes to QB.

 

[Zeno]

You forgot to add that he also had 26 TDs. Not bad for a sophmore playing in the tough SEC.

4 against Wake Forest, 4 against Miss St, 3 against La-Monroe...thats 7 against other than SEC and 4 more against one of the the worst teams in the SEC...incidentally against another bad SEC team (Vandy) he threw 4 INTs. Its not like he lit up the SEC.

 

[Mitch]

No way a 1st. 4-7 without a doubt. If Matt sucks then you take a QB early if you have to and let a vet play out a year here before you start him. But no way a 1st this year goes to QB.

What you may be neglecting, Moe, the question of whether it's better to get a QB in place now and familiar with the system and in Lott's program, or wait until next year to start from scratch. That's the big question.

 

[WildBB]

Wilfork was assigned the non-exclusive version of the franchise tag by the Patriots. That means that any team can negotiate with him. If a team makes Wilfork an offer the Patriots have a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses Wilfork, they are entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation. So, yes we can sign him.

But seriously, no team in the NFL does that. Maybe if it's the final piece if your gunning for the very top and it's what you need to get you over. But I haven't seen anyone give up two firsts to sign a FA.

 

[WildBB]

What you may be neglecting, Moe, the question of whether it's better to get a QB in place now and familiar with the system and in Lott's program, or wait until next year to start from scratch. That's the big question.

I'm expecting Leinart to be here a minimum of two years, in spite of the high # for next season. He'll either neneg. if he had a successful year or we'll just p/u his option and tender him the following year if that's still possible with the new CBA. There may be a lockout following this season anyhow.

 

[kerouac9]

But seriously, no team in the NFL does that. Maybe if it's the final piece if your gunning for the very top and it's what you need to get you over. But I haven't seen anyone give up two firsts to sign a FA.

The Cowboys gave up two firsts to get WR Joey Galloway years ago. I think that the Carolina Panthers did, as well, to get a defensive end, but I don't remember who it was...

Those two tries were enough to convince teams around the NFL that they'd be better off working with the team to make a deal on a Franchise player than giving up what is really a trove of draft picks.

 

[WildBB]

The Cowboys gave up two firsts to get WR Joey Galloway years ago. I think that the Carolina Panthers did, as well, to get a defensive end, but I don't remember who it was...

Those two tries were enough to convince teams around the NFL that they'd be better off working with the team to make a deal on a Franchise player than giving up what is really a trove of draft picks.

There's you'r answer. What other d/a org. would do somethin like that, for a WR no less?!

Unless it's for a potential franchise QB or a Reggie White type force, I just couldn't see it, and apparently so does the NFL. It could only be justified if it actually would get you into the show...and help put you over the top.

I saw somewhere though, that the Vikings put some kind of provision (poison pill) in Hutchinsons contract where Seattle couldn't match it, or it would be detrimental for them to match the deal. I don't remember if they were compensated with two 1's for that, or if it came into play in that signing?

 

[binkar]

What you may be neglecting, Moe, the question of whether it's better to get a QB in place now and familiar with the system and in Lott's program, or wait until next year to start from scratch. That's the big question.

Regardless of that, Mitch, you don't draft a player with a 2nd or 3rd round grade in the 1st. Especially when you have so many other gaping holes.

 

[Mitch]

Regardless of that, Mitch, you don't draft a player with a 2nd or 3rd round grade in the 1st. Especially when you have so many other gaping holes.

We usually put too much stock in the pundits' grades, binkar. All that matters is the Cardinals' grade.

 

[earthsci]

There's you'r answer. What other d/a org. would do somethin like that, for a WR no less?!

Unless it's for a potential franchise QB or a Reggie White type force, I just couldn't see it, and apparently so does the NFL. It could only be justified if it actually would get you into the show...and help put you over the top.

The point is, non-exclusive franchise players can be signed. Posters on this thread were saying that they could not be. Also, there are some that have been signed, since you didn't know that any had.

 

[earthsci]

I think that the Carolina Panthers did, as well, to get a defensive end, but I don't remember who it was...

Sean Gilbert. It was actually a trade but the Panthers still gave up 2 firsts.

 

[CtCardinals78]

It's interesting...Whiz said recently about drafting a QB:

"You may not have the guy with the right stats you are looking for, but he can play the game. Look at Drew Brees. he's not the prototypical QB, but he got in the right situation in San Diego and look at him now."

This year Whiz will draft his first QB as Cardinals' head coach. It should be a very intriguing choice. The quote above may allude to passing stats or physical (Ht-Wt) stats (hence the Brees reference), but in either case Whiz knows what he wants in a QB.

Is the #26 pick out of the question? I say anything is possible, especially where QBs are concerned.

I maintain that I think the QB choice is more likely to come in the middle rounds, but I have a suspicion that it may come earlier than we think...especially since this isn't a deep or particularly strong QB draft class...which would indicate to me that if Whiz really likes McCoy, Pike, Tebow or Snead, the #26 and $57 picks are very much in play.

If the Cards draft any of those QB's with their first or second round picks I would puke, especially Tebow. There is NO WAY this team is in a position to draft a QB with either their first or second round picks. That would set this team back for years. It makes much more sense to bring in a QB through FA to push Leinart and not draft a QB until AT LEAST the 4th round. If Leinart doesn't work out, then go after the QBOF next off season.

 

[TJ]

IMO, positions in order of need in the draft and FA:

1. ILB
2. OLB
3. NT
4. FS
5. CB
6. QB*
7. TE
8. C*

*reserve player

 

[kerouac9]

It's pretty funny that two weeks ago Mitch was asserting that the Cards were a team who could still compete for a Super Bowl with Tyler Thigpen at quarterback, and now he wants to give up a player that could help us from day one (even as a rotational player) in favor of a quarterback whom the vast majority of pundits believe are graded third round or later.

 

[TJ]

It's pretty funny that two weeks ago Mitch was asserting that the Cards were a team who could still compete for a Super Bowl with Tyler Thigpen at quarterback, and now he wants to give up a player that could help us from day one (even as a rotational player) in favor of a quarterback whom the vast majority of pundits believe are graded third round or later.

K-9

Anything to get rid of Leinart I think he would be happy with. Even if it means trading our first to the Colts for Curtis Painter

 

[Duckjake]

This team is likely losing their starting LT, their starting FS, and their starting WILB with really nothing decent on the roster to replace them. They lost their starting Qb but do have somebody to replace him.

You can win with a rookie QB, that a QB needs to sit for years is a myth. So to take a QB this year instead of BPA at FS, LT, or WILB would be a huge mistake.

 

[CtCardinals78]

K-9

Anything to get rid of Leinart I think he would be happy with. Even if it means trading our first to the Colts for Curtis Painter

I think there are some fans out there that are scared as hell about the thought of Leinart succeeding. Whether they just don't like the guy or they talked so bad about him they are worried about eating crow. The same went for some fans regarding KW. Leinart will be fine and the Cards should be a playoff team again next year as long as they can retool that defense. Drafting a QB at 26 will not help.

 

[Duckjake]

I think there are some fans out there that are scared as hell about the thought of Leinart succeeding. Whether they just don't like the guy or they talked so bad about him they are worried about eating crow. The same went for some fans regarding KW. Leinart will be fine and the Cards should be a playoff team again next year as long as they can retool that defense. Drafting a QB at 26 will not help.

The Cards are having to retool period. They are probably losing Berry, Okeafor, Gandy, Dansby, Rolle, Warner and Boldin. That's SIXTY ONE Years of NFL experience gone in one off season.

Also could explain why the team was so tired at the end of last season.

 

[Mitch]

It's pretty funny that two weeks ago Mitch was asserting that the Cards were a team who could still compete for a Super Bowl with Tyler Thigpen at quarterback, and now he wants to give up a player that could help us from day one (even as a rotational player) in favor of a quarterback whom the vast majority of pundits believe are graded third round or later.

There you go urinating in your Special K's again.

The facts are:

1. I never said the Cardinals could still compete for a Super Bowl with Thigpen. I like him as a younger alternative to compete with Leinart and thought the Dolphins would be willing to include him in a Boldin trade. If he played well chances are we could keep him around for several years.

2. Jevan Snead is not my choice for #26. Never was and never has been. If you read my posts accurately you would know that I said, "don't be surprised if the Cardinals take a QB at #26." The only possible choices there I can think of are McCoy, Tebow, and Snead. Of the three Snead clearly has the best arm and if you read Whiz's recent comments about a QB not having the best stats they would look for but who can play the game...it seemed like that could apply to Snead.

3. The pundits are often wrong. The draft is a crap shoot. You take who you believe is your guy at each spot and you try to coach him up.

You, however, K9, keep resorting to desperate forms of hyperbole and your other statements only comfirm what I was saying before about your willingness and propensity to believe in what you read rather than form your own judgements.

 

[Goober Man]

I don't see the logic of drafting a QB in the first round just as a "wait and see how Leinart turns out guy". It just does not make sense. As others have stated in this thread there are more important needs for this team than QB.

As for anything the Cardinals say about the draft don't bother. 99.5% of the time it's just smoke screens. No team is going to tell their draft plan before draft day.