Thoughts on Rolle, Leinart, FA & of course, The Draft

[Arizona's Finest]

I think there are some fans out there that are scared as hell about the thought of Leinart succeeding. Whether they just don't like the guy or they talked so bad about him they are worried about eating crow. The same went for some fans regarding KW. Leinart will be fine and the Cards should be a playoff team again next year as long as they can retool that defense. Drafting a QB at 26 will not help.

I'll tell you what. Those aren't Cardinal fans period.

No one questioned Kurt more then this guy posting, but I was more then happy to eat piles and piles of crow for us to win like we did the last two years.

As Joe pointed out, we are ALL wrong from time to time (some more then others) so anyone who wishes for anything but Cardinals success is not the fan they think they are.

I will say there will be a SIGNIFICANT amount of personal satisfaction if Leinart plays well next year, even if we go 6-10. In fact I would take that record if Leinart becomes the undisputed QBOF in a New York minute.

But I don't wish for any one Cardinal fail to prove I was right. I'll take enjoying watching good football over being right every day of the week.

 

[binkar]

We usually put too much stock in the pundits' grades, binkar. All that matters is the Cardinals' grade.

Agree with the pundits grades thing, but if the Cards have a first round grade on Snead we are in big trouble.

I like his upside, but poor decision making by a QB is nothing to play with in round 1. Jevan Snead was to the NCAA, what Jay Cutler was to the NFL last season (actually Cutler's TD to INT ratio was even slightly better than Snead's).

This is not meant to be disrespectful, Mitch, because I do enjoy the majority of your posts, but sometimes you think WAY to far out of the box.

 

[Chopper0080]

Tebow in the 3rd > Snead or McCoy in the 1st.

 

[DoTheDew]

What you may be neglecting, Moe, the question of whether it's better to get a QB in place now and familiar with the system and in Lott's program, or wait until next year to start from scratch. That's the big question.

Drafting a QB in the first this year is only a good idea if Leinart doesn't work out. If he does work out than it will be a wasted pick and wasted money. It just isn't reasonable to throw millions of dollars and a first round pick at a guy who is 50/50 at best to ever become a starter. If we draft a QB in the first this year it signals to me that Whiz is almost certain that Leinart is not the answer in which case next season is going to suck.

 

[CtCardinals78]

I'll tell you what. Those aren't Cardinal fans period.

No one questioned Kurt more then this guy posting, but I was more then happy to eat piles and piles of crow for us to win like we did the last two years.

As Joe pointed out, we are ALL wrong from time to time (some more then others) so anyone who wishes for anything but Cardinals success is not the fan they think they are.

I will say there will be a SIGNIFICANT amount of personal satisfaction if Leinart plays well next year, even if we go 6-10. In fact I would take that record if Leinart becomes the undisputed QBOF in a New York minute.

But I don't wish for any one Cardinal fail to prove I was right. I'll take enjoying watching good football over being right every day of the week.

Couldn't have said it better, but fact of the matter is there are fans that want ML to fail and there were fans that seemed to have wanted KW to fail, although those "fans" were few and far between. I was critical of KW, but like you I was more than happy to eat my fair share of crow.

 

[Cardiac]

This is a QB driven league. Almost impossible to win it all with an average QB. Incredibly hard to win it all with a good to very good QB. Very tough to win it all with a Manning, Favre, Rivers, Warner (Rogers ?) etc. Leinart will not play at an elite level this year. We can hope for a very good year for him. That should get us back into the playoffs and once in anything can happen but I'm not putting any money on a SB appearance for the Cards this upcoming season.

Mitch is only saying that if ML isn't the future it would behoove us to have a plan B already started. It takes time to develop a young QB. Plus if we do develop a youngin them he or ML is trade bait, the very expensive kind.

Look no further then the Eagles with Kolb, McNabb and even Vick. What can the Eagles get for these guys. If we didn't have ML then I expect we would be offering our 1st + more for McNabb, even in one of the deepest drafts in years.

Since we do have ML and this is a very deep draft except at QB I would load up on quality players in this draft and if ML doesn't work out do what ever it takes to move up in next years draft to get a good youngin.

 

[kerouac9]

This is a QB driven league. Almost impossible to win it all with an average QB. Incredibly hard to win it all with a good to very good QB. Very tough to win it all with a Manning, Favre, Rivers, Warner (Rogers ?) etc. Leinart will not play at an elite level this year. We can hope for a very good year for him. That should get us back into the playoffs and once in anything can happen but I'm not putting any money on a SB appearance for the Cards this upcoming season.

Mitch is only saying that if ML isn't the future it would behoove us to have a plan B already started. It takes time to develop a young QB. Plus if we do develop a youngin them he or ML is trade bait, the very expensive kind.

Look no further then the Eagles with Kolb, McNabb and even Vick. What can the Eagles get for these guys. If we didn't have ML then I expect we would be offering our 1st + more for McNabb, even in one of the deepest drafts in years.

Since we do have ML and this is a very deep draft except at QB I would load up on quality players in this draft and if ML doesn't work out do what ever it takes to move up in next years draft to get a good youngin.

Really? Ask Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco, or Matt Ryan if that's true anymore. Heck, Josh Freeman completed 60% percent of his passes in three starts last season. Josh Freeman!

Also, the New York Jets seemed to make it to the AFC Championship without elite play from the quarterback position. The Ravens made the playoffs twice in a row without elite play.

 

[Cardiac]

Really? Ask Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco, or Matt Ryan if that's true anymore. Heck, Josh Freeman completed 60% percent of his passes in three starts last season. Josh Freeman!

Also, the New York Jets seemed to make it to the AFC Championship without elite play from the quarterback position. The Ravens made the playoffs twice in a row without elite play.

K9.....I guess you missed the point. I'm talking elite QB play. If Sanchez was more the a average (cause he's a rookie) this year then the Jets could and maybe should have won it all. It's the win it all phrase that I typed more then once that you seem to be ignoring. Ryan and Flacco etc are playing great for youngins but not good enough to WIN IT ALL. Capish?

 

[kerouac9]

K9.....I guess you missed the point. I'm talking elite QB play. If Sanchez was more the a average (cause he's a rookie) this year then the Jets could and maybe should have won it all. It's the win it all phrase that I typed more then once that you seem to be ignoring. Ryan and Flacco etc are playing great for youngins but not good enough to WIN IT ALL. Capish?

But there were some ten 4000 yard passers last season. Even with an elite QB in Aaron Rogers, the Packers didn't make it out of the Wild Card round. Elite QB play from Matt Schaub didn't even get the Texans into the playoffs. How many playoff games did Tom Brady and Phillip Rivers win, again?

You don't need elite QB play to win the Super Bowl. You need above average QB play and your defense to make two or three plays. That's what we've seen in the last two Super Bowls.

The focus should be on winning the division and making sure that your defense can make those plays. That's one of the reasons that I'm so worried about losing both Dansby and Rolle. They're guys who are able to make plays on the defensive side of the ball in a way that A-Dub hasn't necessarily shown the ability to do.

Also, BIM: "Capice."

 

[Cardiac]

But there were some ten 4000 yard passers last season. Even with an elite QB in Aaron Rogers, the Packers didn't make it out of the Wild Card round. Elite QB play from Matt Schaub didn't even get the Texans into the playoffs. How many playoff games did Tom Brady and Phillip Rivers win, again?

You don't need elite QB play to win the Super Bowl. You need above average QB play and your defense to make two or three plays. That's what we've seen in the last two Super Bowls.

The focus should be on winning the division and making sure that your defense can make those plays. That's one of the reasons that I'm so worried about losing both Dansby and Rolle. They're guys who are able to make plays on the defensive side of the ball in a way that A-Dub hasn't necessarily shown the ability to do.

Also, BIM: "Capice."

Thanks for the BIM I guess I'm hooked on phonics.

Would you say that Brees is an elite QB?
Would you say Big Ben is an elite QB?
Would you say that Peyton Manning is an elite QB?
Would you say that Brady is an elite QB?
I'm saying they are and I'd guess you would as well.
How many of the past 10 SB's were won by these QB's?
Eli Manning snuck in there and I would give him the grade of good QB.
We could even look at the QB's who were on the losing side in the SB as well.

I can't believe you are arguing that the best way to win it all is to have an Elite QB. Picking nits or splitting hairs or.......?

The most important piece to any team is their QB. Do we need to put a poll up or something?

 

[CaptTurbo]

I'll tell you what. Those aren't Cardinal fans period.

No one questioned Kurt more then this guy posting, but I was more then happy to eat piles and piles of crow for us to win like we did the last two years.

As Joe pointed out, we are ALL wrong from time to time (some more then others) so anyone who wishes for anything but Cardinals success is not the fan they think they are.

I will say there will be a SIGNIFICANT amount of personal satisfaction if Leinart plays well next year, even if we go 6-10. In fact I would take that record if Leinart becomes the undisputed QBOF in a New York minute.

But I don't wish for any one Cardinal fail to prove I was right. I'll take enjoying watching good football over being right every day of the week.

Damn Skippy!

I bashed Whis for a long time. Why not? We hadnt gotten a decent coach in my lifetime!

But I was never so glad to be so wrong!!!!!!!!

 

[kerouac9]

Thanks for the BIM I guess I'm hooked on phonics.

Would you say that Brees is an elite QB?
Would you say Big Ben is an elite QB?
Would you say that Peyton Manning is an elite QB?
Would you say that Brady is an elite QB?
I'm saying they are and I'd guess you would as well.
How many of the past 10 SB's were won by these QB's?
Eli Manning snuck in there and I would give him the grade of good QB.
We could even look at the QB's who were on the losing side in the SB as well.

I can't believe you are arguing that the best way to win it all is to have an Elite QB. Picking nits or splitting hairs or.......?

The most important piece to any team is their QB. Do we need to put a poll up or something?

How many QBs need to be in a group before it's no longer elite? Eventually you're naming half the league. Matt Schaub was 1st in the NFL last year in passing yardage. Is he elite? Is Philip Rivers elite? Is Tony Romo? Is Aaron Rogers? Add that to your list and you're working on half of the quarterbacks in the NFL are elite signal callers? Do you really only have to be in the top third to be considered elite these days?

I agree with you that the most important position in the NFL is quarterback, but just because you have a great one doesn't insure that you have success. No one was better at QB in 2008 than Drew Brees, and he was sitting at home watching the playoffs. Few QBs were better than Phillips Rivers last season, but because his defense couldn't make two big plays in the playoffs, he never had to leave home to start his vacation.

Do I think that Matt Leinart can be in the top third of NFL QBs next season? Yes. Does that mean that the Cards could compete for a Super Bowl title? Yes.

 

[Cardiac]

How many QBs need to be in a group before it's no longer elite? Eventually you're naming half the league. Matt Schaub was 1st in the NFL last year in passing yardage. Is he elite? Is Philip Rivers elite? Is Tony Romo? Is Aaron Rogers? Add that to your list and you're working on half of the quarterbacks in the NFL are elite signal callers? Do you really only have to be in the top third to be considered elite these days?

I agree with you that the most important position in the NFL is quarterback, but just because you have a great one doesn't insure that you have success. No one was better at QB in 2008 than Drew Brees, and he was sitting at home watching the playoffs. Few QBs were better than Phillips Rivers last season, but because his defense couldn't make two big plays in the playoffs, he never had to leave home to start his vacation.

Do I think that Matt Leinart can be in the top third of NFL QBs next season? Yes. Does that mean that the Cards could compete for a Super Bowl title? Yes.

I think we are saying the same thing but in different ways.

For the Cards to win the SB with ML then the defense does need to be improved.
So I'm not saying that having a top 3rd QB or even an elite one ensures winning a SB, I even posted that earlier. What I am saying is that it is almost impossible to win a SB without a good QB. As you pointed out it's incredibly hard even with an elite QB.
Taking a QB early or even at all in this draft would not be my course of action. If there is a QB that Whis loves that can be had in round 4 or later then sure take the BPA at the most important position in the NFL.

Draft defense all day long with an eye out for BPA on the offensive side of the ball after rd 1. LT would be the exception in Rd1.

Question asked of the NFL network guys; What is the best position to get value in the late rounds of the draft? Answer was Oline.

 

[kerouac9]

I think we are saying the same thing but in different ways.

For the Cards to win the SB with ML then the defense does need to be improved.
So I'm not saying that having a top 3rd QB or even an elite one ensures winning a SB, I even posted that earlier. What I am saying is that it is almost impossible to win a SB without a good QB. As you pointed out it's incredibly hard even with an elite QB.
Taking a QB early or even at all in this draft would not be my course of action. If there is a QB that Whis loves that can be had in round 4 or later then sure take the BPA at the most important position in the NFL.

Draft defense all day long with an eye out for BPA on the offensive side of the ball after rd 1. LT would be the exception in Rd1.

Question asked of the NFL network guys; What is the best position to get value in the late rounds of the draft? Answer was Oline.

True enough. I don't like any of the quarterbacks to be early contributors (or really contributors at all) out of this draft class. None of them. I hate spread QBs. Jimmy Clausen might become a solid guy. I like the kid from West Virginia round 3 or after.