Three Suns in FOX Sports' Top 50 NBA Players List

[nowagimp]

If Defense is important to winning, explain Steve Nash. We both agree that he is better than Dirk, (as of last year) but this argument doesn't bode well for you.

Again, don't get me wrong, I have been pimping Brand for years. He brings 20/10/2 almost every night. The major problem with Brand (when compared to Dirk) is that he cannot take over a game offensively. (unless it is against the Suns)

If you were to ask me who I would rather have on my team, it would be Brand. He just isn't the better player, not right now, probably not ever.

Where do I start?

Dirk doesnt make other players better, steve Nash does(assisted baskets). Steve Nash is a special case for two reasons, one, he makes others better like no-one since Magic. Two, defense in the post is much more critical than defense on the perimeter as the shots are high percentage in close and a guard driving to the basket can be help-defensed very well by good a low post help defender, but a good low post player cannot be help-defended by a good defrensive guard on the low block. This means that the defense of guards is not as critical as the big guys at 4,5. For example, the drop off in D when the suns lost Kurt Thomas last year was alot worse than the improvement that might be expected with a substitution of a better defender for Nash. For the suns, KT's work in the lane is critical with both the physical position defense and the drawing of offensive fouls(in lieu of blocks). The Larry Bird Celtics didnt need great D out of Ainge or Wedman because if his man got by him, Parrish and McHale were waiting in the lane. There have not been many championship teams that have poor low post defense, but great defense at the guard position has not been a requirement.

The Mavs interior defense has been crap for a long time, from at least the beginning of the Nash era. Nash took some criticism for that D, but yet it was a sieve on the low block last year. Duncan shot like 70% against those guys in the playoffs with a bum ankle, and a 36 year old shaq ate them up as well. Only outstanding play from Devin Harris allowed them to advance past the spurs. A power forward who cant play defense on the low block is a huge liability in the NBA, especially in an ERA where the centers are generally stiffs. Because of this I believe that Nowitskis great offensive skills are somewhat countered by his poor defense. I'd rate Nowitski at about (10). Brand is probably the best PF in the NBA right now. Oh and by the way, Brand took over games against the Mavs and the Pistons last year with 30+ point efforts. I'll even go further to say that the clips front line will be the worst matchup this year for the Mavs. Brand, Kaman, and TT/Magette against Diop, Nowitski, and Howard.

 

[nowagimp]

I am not a Shaq fan but without him the Heat would not be the reigning champ and Wade would not be #2 on that list. Shaq is still dominating and I think it is fair to rank him #9.

I don't understand Duncan ranking. If you refeer to the last season, he can't be the #4 (He could almost be considered the #2 spurs for the last season). If this ranking is for his career, then TD is #1.

Shaq was the key to the heat win over the pistons. Ben Wallace couldnt deal with shaqs strength down low. Shaq also provided the muscle against the poor interior defense of the Mavs. The only way to counter shaq is to run him, and apparently the Mavs couldnt do that.

TD was just unstoppable against the Mavs with 32.2 ppg on 55% shooting, grabbed 11.7 rebounds, and shot 57%(#1 in the NBA) scored 25.8 ppg and grabbed 10.5 rebounds in the playoffs overall on a recovering ankle. Of course he is/was the best player on the spurs, and I would expect him to be top 4-5 in al the NBA this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

and a 36 year old shaq ate them up as well.

since when is 13 ppg eating someone up? Especially in the case of Shaquille O'Neal? That entire series was all on Dwayne Wade. Hell, the Heat played better when Zo was in there rather than Shaq - at least Zo played defense.

Again - Dirk has taken his team to Finals/WCFs and all with a host of different players and the last two years without a true PG. Brand never even got the Clippers within a whiff of the playoffs until he got Sam Cassel, and this while playing with an adequate PG in Andre Miller, who has been a PG for a playoff team with the Nugz who even now, have considerably less talent than those Brand/Maggette/Odom teams that regularly did nothing.

Brand is a very good PF and a great help defender, but wasn't a difference make on his own - he needs a PG to be that difference maker on offense and considering that Dirk can be a difference maker, lead his team to playoffs, WCF and Finals, even with his defensive liabilities, he's the better/more valuable player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

too low:

Pat Burke (NR)

I thought it was,

Pat Burke (DNR). That's what DAntoni put on his trainers instructions anyway.

 

[nowagimp]

since when is 13 ppg eating someone up? Especially in the case of Shaquille O'Neal? That entire series was all on Dwayne Wade. Hell, the Heat played better when Zo was in there rather than Shaq - at least Zo played defense.

Again - Dirk has taken his team to Finals/WCFs and all with a host of different players and the last two years without a true PG. Brand never even got the Clippers within a whiff of the playoffs until he got Sam Cassel, and this while playing with an adequate PG in Andre Miller, who has been a PG for a playoff team with the Nugz who even now, have considerably less talent than those Brand/Maggette/Odom teams that regularly did nothing.

Brand is a very good PF and a great help defender, but wasn't a difference make on his own - he needs a PG to be that difference maker on offense and considering that Dirk can be a difference maker, lead his team to playoffs, WCF and Finals, even with his defensive liabilities, he's the better/more valuable player.

Against the Heat, Dirk shot 39% from the floor(the whole team shot 42%), and 25% from 3 against the Heat. Sounds like damn good defense to me. Any guy that shoots 39% is a guy you want to shoot, surely not taking over games with any consistency there. Jason terry shot 48%, sounds like he should have been shooting more and Dirk less. So, Dirk couldnt shoot any better than 39% against who? Udonis Halsem, James Posey and Anton Walker?? Youre kidding me, right? The reality is that against the suns they stopped defending Dirk after our 2 defenders picked up some quick fouls, then he shot well. When TT, Marion did not pick up quick ticky-tack fouls, Dirk didnt score nearly as effectively. Miami had a little more depth to run defenders at Dirk and it showed.

As far as Shaq scoring 13.7 ppg on 60% FGs and grabbing 10.2 rebounds, It was not so bad for a 36 year old. Sixty percent FG's is hurting the opponent. I wont take anything away from DWade, he was the MVP, but with a guy in the middle shooting 60% FG's, Dwane had a little more room to operate off the dribble on the perimeter. Alonzo at 4ppg was a great defensive bench player, but a nonfactor on offense.

 

[msdundee]

Shaq's 34. Well okay, 34-1/2.