Throw the house at Porzingis

[Chaplin]

Brooklyn, he signed a pretty good sized contract before last season to play there. Prior to that he helped lead Charlotte to the playoffs with Kemba Walker in the backcourt. Charlotte failed to improve without him and couldn't make the playoffs last year also. I'm not saying Jeremy Lin was the sole reason behind them going to the playoffs last season but he definitely played a key role.

Not sure what the deal is with Jeremy Lin though. He was a nobody who had a good run and was dubbed a "star" by the New York media. He wasn't a star though, he was just a solid PG. He's had a good career since that run with New York.

Is he a PGOTF? He had a much longer stint of good games with the Knicks than Ulis had with us, and yet he's nowhere near a PGOTF.

 

[Bodha]

They're both 7 foot+ players who stretch the floor and can handle the ball remarkably well for their size plus they're both quality rim protectors and shot blockers. Bender is much further along in his development but Porzingis is someone he was compared to by a lot of scouts and analysts before being drafted.

KP's rookie season

Year Team GP GS FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2015–16 New York .421 .333 .838 7.3 1.3 .7 1.9 14.2

Bender

Year Team GP GS FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2016–17 Phoenix 43 .354 .277 .364 2.4 .5 .2 .5 3.4

KP is in a different stratosphere in terms of both raw talent and ceiling. How many years will it take for Bender just to reach KPs rookie year performance? That begs the question: is it worth it? Its going to take a 25 year old Bender to play at the level of a 19 year old KP.

 

[SirStefan32]

Total hyperbole on your part. Literally not a single poster has said they want ulis gone. It's ridiculous to analogies ITand ulis thusly. And it's not ridiculous to expect an undersized second year, 2nd round draft pick with limited data to not be considered the pgotf. In fact it's more absurd to make that assumption. You keep him as a terrific part of the bench team, creating incredible depth. And if at some point he starts making noise, or he's clearly talented enough to be a starter, or teams are approaching you with great deals you trade him to get better. But we don't need to rush to make him pgotf and anyone that's okay with not doing so is definitely in their right mind.

I agree. I am actually quite fond of Ulis. I just recognize his physical limitations, and am not ready to go against the history and proclaim him the PGOTF.

 

[JCSunsfan]

KP's rookie season

Year Team GP GS FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2015–16 New York .421 .333 .838 7.3 1.3 .7 1.9 14.2

Bender

Year Team GP GS FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2016–17 Phoenix 43 .354 .277 .364 2.4 .5 .2 .5 3.4

KP is in a different stratosphere in terms of both raw talent and ceiling. How many years will it take for Bender just to reach KPs rookie year performance? That begs the question: is it worth it? Its going to take a 25 year old Bender to play at the level of a 19 year old KP.

Those numbers are not helpful. Two completely different situations. KP is better, but those numbers do not tell the story.

 

[WildBB]

I think they'd want to move Bledsoe and Bender and keep the #4 if possible. Throw in the 2nd rounder (32) or next year's #1.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My God, we agree!

I've actually agreed with quite a few of your posts regarding the draft this year. I have a psychiatric appointment at 5 today.

 

[sunsfan88]

I agree with the premise of this thread but I don't think they will trade Porzingis unless they get a player like Towns or Booker in return.

I think the report of Chriss + #4 is false and not actually reported by a credible insider (Schultz).

I think Phil Jackson just wanted to see if he can get another player with elite/star potential but that move wouldn't make sense for the Suns since without Booker and adding Porzingis, we would just be going sideways.

 

[Hoop Head]

Is he a PGOTF? He had a much longer stint of good games with the Knicks than Ulis had with us, and yet he's nowhere near a PGOTF.

No, Lin is much older than Ulis at this point. I don't get why you want to compare those 2 players. Should he have been the PGOTF for New York? Yes, but New York is a disaster. What does it matter if Lin is or isn't a team's PGOTF, he's 28 and he was the starting PG for Brooklyn last year. So I'm not sure what you're trying to get at using him as a comparison.

 

[sunsfan88]

Total hyperbole on your part. Literally not a single poster has said they want ulis gone. It's ridiculous to analogies ITand ulis thusly. And it's not ridiculous to expect an undersized second year, 2nd round draft pick with limited data to not be considered the pgotf. In fact it's more absurd to make that assumption. You keep him as a terrific part of the bench team, creating incredible depth. And if at some point he starts making noise, or he's clearly talented enough to be a starter, or teams are approaching you with great deals you trade him to get better. But we don't need to rush to make him pgotf and anyone that's okay with not doing so is definitely in their right mind.

This. Ulis outplayed his expectations and showed that he's the best passer on our team since Steve Nash which is excellent. That said, he has his own limitations and one can't overlook at how inefficient he was last season.

I still like him and I think he will get better and become more efficient in the future but it's too early to declare him as PGOTF or anything. For every Isaiah Thomas, there's many Nate Robinsons and Kay Felders out there.

But he has plenty of time as he's still very young and is locked in to his contract for several years.

 

[Chaplin]

No, Lin is much older than Ulis at this point. I don't get why you want to compare those 2 players. Should he have been the PGOTF for New York? Yes, but New York is a disaster. What does it matter if Lin is or isn't a team's PGOTF, he's 28 and he was the starting PG for Brooklyn last year. So I'm not sure what you're trying to get at using him as a comparison.

Because everyone thought he was the next great superstar PGOTF, and he crashed and burned. It's nice to be optimistic, but it should be tempered with realism at the same time. I like Ulis a lot, but I'm not even convinced he's a viable starter at the position, let alone our PGOTF.

 

[devilalum]

This. Ulis outplayed his expectations and showed that he's the best passer on our team since Steve Nash which is excellent. That said, he has his own limitations and one can't overlook at how inefficient he was last season.

I still like him and I think he will get better and become more efficient in the future but it's too early to declare him as PGOTF or anything. For every Isaiah Thomas, there's many Nate Robinsons and Kay Felders out there.

But he has plenty of time as he's still very young and is locked in to his contract for several years.

I hope Ulis becomes our PG some day but its definitely a long shot. If he could extend his 3 pt range out to about 30 ft. that might get him to the next level.

 

[devilalum]

Nobody has written down the SI trade idea.

KP and Noah for Bled, Bender and the #4.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/21/n...-paul-george-dwight-howard-kristaps-porzingis

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He started making noise late last season or did you not watch when he was the starter? IT and Ulis are compared frequently here because of their size but they have 2 different styles offensively and Ulis actually puts in an effort defensively. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to predict a similar thing could happen as far as Ulis being undervalued by the Suns and the fanbase and he goes elsewhere and produces well which would cause some revisionist history to kick in wishing we still had him. I don't hope that happens but it wouldn't shock me if Ulis has a similar career in Phoenix. He's too young to expect him to be content leading the 2nd unit for years to come. He should definitely be considered for a starting spot but I wouldn't call him the PG of the future.

He's better than your average 2nd rounder also. His draft position shouldn't matter anymore, we saw him as a rookie and what he can do. He had a better season than a lot of 1st round picks did last year across the league. Why devalue him by bringing up his draft position all the time? Dragic was a 2nd round pick but you never saw that mentioned as much as Ulis' draft position is. There are a number of All Star level talent across the league who were selected in the 2nd round also like Draymond Green, DeAndre Jordan, Paul Millsap, IT, and Marc Gasol. There's a number of starting caliber 2nd rounders also like Chandler Parsons, Jae Crowder, Louis Williams, Kyle Korver, Khris Middleton, and Jordan Clarkson.

First, in your original post you were insinuating the people were ready to show him out the door already now you're backing off that and saying it's not a stretch to predict they'll do that. That's a very different position you're taking.

Second, I didn't say that 2nd rounders cannot be valuable. I said it's premature to label a guy who has a limited data set (aka unreliable data set) and was a second rounder (so all of the talent evaluators decided to pass in him) as pgotf. Even negele knight played like a brilliant starting pg for a brief period when kj was out for a spot but then never developed into anything.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nobody has written down the SI trade idea.

KP and Noah for Bled, Bender and the #4.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/06/21/n...-paul-george-dwight-howard-kristaps-porzingis

I think I'd do it if they thrown in the 8 and we throw in whichever Miami pick they want.

Porzingas
Noah
8

For

Bledsoe
Bender
4
Miami pick (maybe even both but with protection on 2021 pick)

 

[GatorAZ]

The Knicks sending out the 8th pick along with Porzingis is asinine.

 

[devilalum]

The Knicks sending out the 8th pick along with Porzingis is asinine.

Don't hold back.

 

[Bodha]

Those numbers are not helpful. Two completely different situations. KP is better, but those numbers do not tell the story.

What is Bender a professional wrestler while KP is a supplies estimator?

Its basketball. They play the same positions. They are both 7 ft euro white guys.

They in fact could not be more similar if not for the fact KP is great at basketball and Bender isnt.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Knicks sending out the 8th pick along with Porzingis is asinine.

They are essentially getting:

Two #4 picks (Bender and this year's pick), two more first rounders, a good player in Bledsoe and tremendous cap relief. That's a pretty good haul for porzingas and the 8th pick (I kind of wish the 8th was a little later so it wouldn't be quite as valuable but have to use the assets at our disposal). This is all dreaming anyway.

 

[pokerface]

The thing I just realized about Porzingis that I'm not digging is he's only under contract for two more seasons. Is he worth better the farm on for that short period of time?

At least with Chriss (and Bender) and the #4 pick they would be under contract for many many years.

 

[sunsfan88]

The thing I just realized about Porzingis that I'm not digging is he's only under contract for two more seasons. Is he worth better the farm on for that short period of time?

At least with Chriss (and Bender) and the #4 pick they would be under contract for many many years.

Porzingis would be a RFA after that meaning we can match any offer he gets.

 

[pokerface]

Porzingis would be a RFA after that meaning we can match any offer he gets.

Ok that's cool then. Sign me up for some KP!

 

[sunsfan88]

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Welp...it was fun while it lasted!

 

[JCSunsfan]

What is Bender a professional wrestler while KP is a supplies estimator?

Its basketball. They play the same positions. They are both 7 ft euro white guys.

They in fact could not be more similar if not for the fact KP is great at basketball and Bender isnt.

Different age, different minutes, different usage, different teams. Its really not hard to understand.

 

[devilalum]

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Welp...it was fun while it lasted!

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[JCSunsfan]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Welp...it was fun while it lasted!

Translation. PJ floated the KP trade out there and got much lower offers than he expected. Nevermind.