Thunder @ Suns 4-6-14

[Phrazbit]

Bledsoe didn't guard those guys the whole game. And no watch the game again, Dragic was guarding Westbrook in the 4th QTR quite a bit.

Lol "per 100 possesssions" who the f*** uses that kind of s**t? Please tell me what Blesdoe's defensive win shares are next. Or his per 500 defensive win shares. Or plus 1000 if there's such a thing.

And my god, just because Bledsoe was in the game doesn't mean he was guarding Westbrook. Dragic could have been guarding him with Bledsoe providing help which is good at.

And I already said Bledsoe is a a great team defender so its not surprising that we give up less when he is in the game than when he's not. The steal he had on Durant is a good example of that. I'm talking about strictly his on ball defense.

And I'm not even saying that his on ball defense is bad, I just don't think its as good as some people think it is.

Please take a reading class when you go to college.

Lots of people use per 100 possessions... its not a very complicated stat, very easy to calculate. Its just pure scoring/defense with pace out of the equation. I know you prefer to use "facts" that are pulled from your imagination that frequently fly contrary to reality, but per 100 possessions is not that complicated, even you can probably digest it given some time.

Nice line about "reading class" though. Did you take a lot of "reading class" yourself? (and this coming from the dude who got caught not even reading his own links)

Sorry that I again called you out on your total BS, just treat this as a learning experience and take a deep breath before posting next time and make sure what you've stated is not either a figment of your imagination or an outright lie.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

These pissing matches are getting a bit old, and very annoying

 

[Catlover]

Bledsoe didn't guard those guys the whole game. And no watch the game again, Dragic was guarding Westbrook in the 4th QTR quite a bit.

You're right, no one guards the same player every moment of every game. And you're also right, Dragic did guard Westbrook quite a bit in the 4th quarter. But if you knew that I don't know why you didn't also know that Westbrook shot 2 of 3 from the 3 point line against Dragic but went 0 for 3 when guarded by Bledsoe in that quarter. Eric frustrated him all game long, much of Westbrook's damage came when he was guarded by others.

 

[sunsfan88]

Lots of people use per 100 possessions... its not a very complicated stat, very easy to calculate. Its just pure scoring/defense with pace out of the equation. I know you prefer to use "facts" that are pulled from your imagination that frequently fly contrary to reality, but per 100 possessions is not that complicated, even you can probably digest it given some time.

Nice line about "reading class" though. Did you take a lot of "reading class" yourself? (and this coming from the dude who got caught not even reading his own links)

Sorry that I again called you out on your total BS, just treat this as a learning experience and take a deep breath before posting next time and make sure what you've stated is not either a figment of your imagination or an outright lie.

There is no stats out there that can prove how good a player is defensively. Not even steals and blocks can tell if a player is a good defender or not.

And I told you to take reading classes because your response to me was as if I said we suck on defense when Bledsoe is in the game or as if I said he's a bad defender.

 

[JustWinBaby]

These pissing matches are getting a bit old, and very annoying

Amen

I think it is very simple when it comes to Bledsoe. My only real concern is his health going forward. If our doctors give the OK I do not let him go under any circumstance. I match any and all offers and I do not work a sign a trade, I keep him.

I just think he is a player to build around along with Dragic. They appear to like each other and they appear to be well liked by their teammates. I cannot see anyone better then either of them that will legitimately be available to us in the near future. There are better players than both of them but they are not easy to get.

If anyone thinks that we should not match any and all offers for Bledsoe this summer I would like to know whom they would want to replace him with.

My bigger concern involves how we handle Tucker and what free agent, If any, we go after this off season. I also wonder how we will handle the Morris Twins and Gerald Green going forward. All of these guys have had considerable impact on this years team.

It will be interesting to see how McDonough handles this group going forward.

 

[sunsfan88]

You're right, no one guards the same player every moment of every game. And you're also right, Dragic did guard Westbrook quite a bit in the 4th quarter. But if you knew that I don't know why you didn't also know that Westbrook shot 2 of 3 from the 3 point line against Dragic but went 0 for 3 when guarded by Bledsoe in that quarter. Eric frustrated him all game long, much of Westbrook's damage came when he was guarded by others.

I wasn't talking just about Westbrook's 3pt shooting. Westbrook is not even a good 3pt shooter so I see alot of his 3s as just flukes. And both 3s that he made against Dragic were heavily contested by Dragic. One of the 3s taken against Bledsoe was taken near the half court line with the shot clock whining down so Westbrook basically just threw it in the direction of the backboard hoping it hits rim and that they rebound it. The second 3 taken agaisnt Bledsoe was with the game already out of hand and was just a fast desperation attempt by Westbrook that actually wasn't contested much by Bledsoe cause he didn't want to risk fouling a 3pt shooter which is smart in that situation. But again, I wasn't talking about just 3pt shooting.

Sure Bledsoe probably did annoy Westbrook quite a bit. Westbrook scored pretty easily on the 2nd bucket of the game against Bledsoe and then Westbrook scored again on Westbrook in the 2nd QTR at the 3:35 mark but it was great defense by Bledsoe on this one and a great contest, RB just made a tough shot. Westbrook embarrassed Bledsoe at the 2:06 mark though when he drove right by for the layup at the rim.

And I know that even great defenders give up plays every now and then. I do. Bledsoe had several good contests on Westbrook in the game as well. And I don't think Bledsoe's a bad defender. Its obvious that he plays stellar defense more often than he does mess up or let his man score. I just think his on ball defense is overrated by some. Not saying its bad but its not as good as some think it is.

 

[Phrazbit]

There is no stats out there that can prove how good a player is defensively. Not even steals and blocks can tell if a player is a good defender or not.

And I told you to take reading classes because your response to me was as if I said we suck on defense when Bledsoe is in the game or as if I said he's a bad defender.

Well, you said his defense was "incredibly overrated", which is hard to substantiate, and yes, quantifying individual defense is difficult, however its very easy to quantify team defense, and the Suns are "incredibly" better defensively with Bledsoe on the court. One would think that an "incredibly overrated" defender would not have such a resounding positive effect defensively when on the court.

As for things that are easier to calculate... you made the claim that Paul embarrassed Bledsoe (in a game where Paul shot under 40%), and that Westbrook scored with ease against Bledsoe while having more difficulty with Ish Smith, which was total BS.

If you dont want to insinuate that a guy is a bad defender then dont make up absolute rubbish making it sound as though he is one.

 

[BigRedRage]

Bledsoe didn't guard those guys the whole game. And no watch the game again, Dragic was guarding Westbrook in the 4th QTR quite a bit.

Lol "per 100 possesssions" who the f*** uses that kind of s**t? Please tell me what Blesdoe's defensive win shares are next. Or his per 500 defensive win shares. Or plus 1000 if there's such a thing.

And my god, just because Bledsoe was in the game doesn't mean he was guarding Westbrook. Dragic could have been guarding him with Bledsoe providing help which is good at.

And I already said Bledsoe is a a great team defender so its not surprising that we give up less when he is in the game than when he's not. The steal he had on Durant is a good example of that. I'm talking about strictly his on ball defense.

And I'm not even saying that his on ball defense is bad, I just don't think its as good as some people think it is.

Please take a reading class when you go to college.

Well arent you just a pleasant fellow to speak with. Surprised you havent been banned for cussing.

 

[marios13]

Everyone take a chill pill or you will all get banned by the end of this playoff run the way they keep going up and down between 7-9 place.

And please remember although you all see it differently you are all here because you are Suns fans so please keep that in mind before you make things personal. No one wants this team to fail and I highly doubt that anyones opinion here has any relevance to McD, Horny ...

 

[Sunburn]

This is like watching the judges of American Idol go at it. Entertaining stuff.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is no stats out there that can prove how good a player is defensively. Not even steals and blocks can tell if a player is a good defender or not.

And I told you to take reading classes because your response to me was as if I said we suck on defense when Bledsoe is in the game or as if I said he's a bad defender.

This just twisted my ADHD brain another direction. The sabre metrics/types of bball say that one of the most important stat predictors for college players being effective in the NBA is steals. Anyone here have any idea on why that would be aside from a statistical anomaly.

It seems to me that the steals stat is probably an indicator of how mentally engaged and competitive a player is. It takes defensive focus and quickness as well as an ability to read the game and anticipate rather than just react.

 

[Catlover]

This just twisted my ADHD brain another direction. The sabre metrics/types of bball say that one of the most important stat predictors for college players being effective in the NBA is steals. Anyone here have any idea on why that would be aside from a statistical anomaly.

It seems to me that the steals stat is probably an indicator of how mentally engaged and competitive a player is. It takes defensive focus and quickness as well as an ability to read the game and anticipate rather than just react.

I wasn't aware of this, at least not across the board. I thought it was being used as a predictive tool pretty much for big men only. I remember reading an article (Chad Ford?) before last year's draft that talked about it in reference to Noel and Len. It was one of the supposed reasons that Len after having moved up the draft board was once again falling. He rated horribly in that regard and while it's been predictive as far as success goes I seem to remember it being even more revealing for predicting failure.

 

[Errntknght]

I ran across the statement about the predictive value of steals a couple of years ago and pretty much dismissed it as statistical fluke because I'd established that team steals did not correlate with winning percentage - in fact, some years it has a small negative correlation.
Thinking about it just now, after Catlover's statement about if being useful only for bigs, it did occur to me that made more sense because perimeter players gamble for steals much more than frontcourt players. Its almost a cliche around the league that gambling for steals is synonymous with bad defense.
I did a bunch of eyeball correlations with other stats for pf's and c's - sorted them on pts, rebs, assists and blocks then looked up and down the steals column, searching for non-randomness. Pts and rebs looked thoroughly random, assists appeared to have a slight positive correlation and blocks had a more noticeable negative correlation. I think I'll modify my program to allow it to compute correlations between various stats so I can quantify these statements but my eyeball is good enough to say that for bigs in the league steals is not a strikingly good indicator of overall good play. It would be interesting to have the data for college players to see just how strong the correlation is that they are talking about because it sure seems to disappear once they reach the NBA.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I ran across the statement about the predictive value of steals a couple of years ago and pretty much dismissed it as statistical fluke because I'd established that team steals did not correlate with winning percentage - in fact, some years it has a small negative correlation.
Thinking about it just now, after Catlover's statement about if being useful only for bigs, it did occur to me that made more sense because perimeter players gamble for steals much more than frontcourt players. Its almost a cliche around the league that gambling for steals is synonymous with bad defense.
I did a bunch of eyeball correlations with other stats for pf's and c's - sorted them on pts, rebs, assists and blocks then looked up and down the steals column, searching for non-randomness. Pts and rebs looked thoroughly random, assists appeared to have a slight positive correlation and blocks had a more noticeable negative correlation. I think I'll modify my program to allow it to compute correlations between various stats so I can quantify these statements but my eyeball is good enough to say that for bigs in the league steals is not a strikingly good indicator of overall good play. It would be interesting to have the data for college players to see just how strong the correlation is that they are talking about because it sure seems to disappear once they reach the NBA.

I'm not really sure why it should be an effective predictor of NBA success yet not translate to the next level. I suspect it's a combination of factors. My best guess is that, in college, they defend for much longer per possession so it would seem to follow that the opportunity to steal the ball would occur more frequently. Also the gap between the best and the worst starter in the NBA is nowhere near as large as the gap between the best college starter and the worst. With that much of a discrepancy in talent levels perhaps certain strengths become more apparent (quick hands, court vision, rebounding etc.).

The article I read said that an absence of steals was even more effective as a predictor of failure. I guess that might support the idea that the opportunities to steal the ball in college are much higher. Failing to grab your share suggests slow hands, poor defensive awareness, limited reach and other weaknesses that can typically be hidden in the college scheme but exploited at the next level.

 

[Catlover]

I'm not really sure why it should be an effective predictor of NBA success yet not translate to the next level. I suspect it's a combination of factors. My best guess is that, in college, they defend for much longer per possession so it would seem to follow that the opportunity to steal the ball would occur more frequently. Also the gap between the best and the worst starter in the NBA is nowhere near as large as the gap between the best college starter and the worst. With that much of a discrepancy in talent levels perhaps certain strengths become more apparent (quick hands, court vision, rebounding etc.).

The article I read said that an absence of steals was even more effective as a predictor of failure. I guess that might support the idea that the opportunities to steal the ball in college are much higher. Failing to grab your share suggests slow hands, poor defensive awareness, limited reach and other weaknesses that can typically be hidden in the college scheme but exploited at the next level.

You read the same article I did probably. I don't think it mentioned why it was predictive but all I really focused on was the argument about Noel over Len. IIRC, Len was almost historically bad.

 

[Bada0Bing]

I cringe every time Bledose tries to run a fast break. He screwed up all three attempts in the first half. He really is a long way from being a point guard.

I also cringe when he runs the fastbreak. He makes some bonehead plays. However, he plays PG fine in the half-court. I think he's just too fast for his vision right now and with more experience it will all sync up.