Tim Thomas = Eddie Johnson

[Gaddabout]

Obviously, Thomas has more versatility to his game. He's just a bigger body. But in terms of offense off the bench and good guy attitiude, that's who this guy reminds me of.

And like EJ, Thomas plays harder and does a few more things than his preceding reputation suggested.

 

[playstation]

we scored 67 points by the half. tim thomas is our leading scorer...he has played 5 minutes lol.

when he is hot, good god.

 

[jandaman]

Tim Thomas is very well suited to the Suns style.

This guy is 6'10, atheletic, can dribble and shoot, he can score one-on-one, he is multi-skilled just like Marion/Diaw. Defense wise his size and atheletism can come handy against other multi-skilled big men.

When hot, this guy can light it up from the arc and can also finish. He is an off-guard/small forward in a power forward's body. If he can learn to play that power forward spot he can work very well in the Suns offense.
Amare, Thomas, Marion, Diaw... all long, atheletic, multi-skilled players who can play the 3/4/5 positions, thats sick.

 

[CaptainInsano]

With the situation with Amare this year potentially looking bleak, there still is hope now if we can get at least Kurt back at center.

With a lineup of Nash, Bell, Marion, Diaw, and Kurt starting while Jones, Tim, Barbs, and House (if he can get out of this shooting semi-funk he has been in) come off the bench we could cause some serious damage against Dallas or San Antonio.

It is all even better if we have Grant as a backup true center. Then we can contend for the title this year with a decent chance.

 

[jandaman]

Yeah I agree that with Amare looking to be missing out this season, Tim Thomas brings in that atheletic big man, either off the bench or starting. Kurt Thomas and Brian Grant brings in the inside body to help box out opposition big men.

Without Amare, the Suns look solid, and when they play their best, they can beat any team on a given night, playoff or regular.

 

[keric]

Tim Thomas (fools gold??)

Yes I agree Tim Thomas brings scoring to the line up (Sonics' game was truly evident of that 10-11 from the field)(his jumper looks better than JR's right now) but lets not overlook his defense of lack there of.

Just like Eddie Johnson(great scorer but not much else)

I've been watching him carefully on D, even away from the ball. He often is out of position, rarely blocks a shot, cant move laterally or is flat footed as his man blows by. (hopefully this is due to being out of basketball shape but I think his reputation precedes him as he was always known for his lack of defense)

Don't get me started on his rebounding!!

His game is very entertaining but I'd rather have the "other" Thomas back instead, especially for the playoffs!

Anyone else notice that with him in we are looking like last years Suns team. Just trying to outscore everyone and playing minimal defense?

 

[Gaddabout]

Keric, I think that is an unbalanced view of Tim Thomas' performance so far. He's averaging 14.4 pts and 4.5 rbds in 28 minutes per game. That's pretty good for $250,000 or whatever they're paying him this season. Not to mention he has been responsible for some good hard fouls (something lacking from this team). He's not a great defender, we knew that before he got here, but he does expend energy on defense. At least he makes his opponent work some for their points.

But even if it was just 14 to 16 points per game off the bench, that was a critical need for a team whose projected key bench players are now starting. The fact that he can provide some serious scoring punch without Nash (very good at creating his own shot) makes those points as valuable as Marion's 20+.

 

[Errntknght]

I have to agree with Gaddabout, TT is not doing bad on defense. He's getting back and he's bodying up to the opponents bigs. In fact, I have to disagree with Keric about letting his man blow by him - I've been watching him fairly closely, too, and I haven't seen that happen. Now, his weak side help is a bit slow but like Gadd said, he's been laying on some nice hard fouls - and he hasn't been giving up three point plays. I remember two such plays against the Sonics - vs. Rashard in the first half and their PG in the second. Probably the worst defect in his D is handling of P&Rs - he switches too readily. It's not so much that he gets burned but he's leaving a G to defend a big - that shows his SF mentality and probably won't be corrected.

Rebounding - he's no Shawn Marion but he does block out quite well. Mikki Moore got 2 OR against him but the problem there was he didn't maintain position so he could block out when the shot went up. When he's got position he blocks out well and isn't as easily crowded under the basket as most of our other players. His two best rebounding games have been against the Mavs and Spurs (7 and 8 bds) - probably not that significant but at least it's not a bad sign.

 

[F-Dog]

No, I'm with Keric here. Thomas' defense has been awful, and IIRC the on court/off court numbers back that up.

IMO TT's only decent effort on defense came against Minnesota. My guess is that he was pumped up for the challenge of facing Garnett, but more than that, the fact that TT didn't have a lot of help responsibility in that game made him look better than he usually does.



The real answer for Thomas' defensive woes is for him to lose at least 20 pounds, on the "Kurt Thomas diet". Right now TT has the thick upper body of Chris Webber and moves like him, too.

I think D'Antoni has made the right moves with TT so far--first, he showed TT the carrot by putting him into the starting lineup, and now he's showing him the stick by replacing him with JR. The best solution would be to play TT exclusively at center, but his awareness and help defense is so poor...at least TT showed in the Seattle game that he's willing to commit fouls.

 

[sunsfn]

Tim Thomas defense is going to improve as his conditioning and the suns team knowledge improves.
I realize he will never be known as a great defender, but he is giving some hard fouls and is starting to look better all around.
Besides, "his defense is bad" compared to who???
With Kurt Thomas out we have no big defense except Tim Thomas.

He is already playing better than many of you here thought he could play. He will improve and hopefully so will his defense. We certainly need some defense.

I personally believe that if Kurt Thomas does not return for the playoffs, we will have a hard time getting out of the 2nd round. With him out, the suns defense has taken a large downturn.
That is to say if Amare does not come back! With Amare the suns can make it to the Western finals for sure, even without Thomas.

 

[Mainstreet]

No, I'm with Keric here. Thomas' defense has been awful, and IIRC the on court/off court numbers back that up.

IMO TT's only decent effort on defense came against Minnesota. My guess is that he was pumped up for the challenge of facing Garnett, but more than that, the fact that TT didn't have a lot of help responsibility in that game made him look better than he usually does.



The real answer for Thomas' defensive woes is for him to lose at least 20 pounds, on the "Kurt Thomas diet". Right now TT has the thick upper body of Chris Webber and moves like him, too.

I think D'Antoni has made the right moves with TT so far--first, he showed TT the carrot by putting him into the starting lineup, and now he's showing him the stick by replacing him with JR. The best solution would be to play TT exclusively at center, but his awareness and help defense is so poor...at least TT showed in the Seattle game that he's willing to commit fouls.

Okay, I have to throw in my 2 cents.

I'm very thankful the Suns have TT on the team with their depleted frontline.
He certainly has brought more consistent scoring to the team as James Jones and Eddie House have not shot well of late (as they did earlier in the year). I do see TT hustling on defense and taking the hard foul.

Perhaps some of his defensive woes may be also attributed to the very short time he has played for the Suns. As I recall it took KT a considerably longer period of time to get into playing shape for the Suns' fast pace. This could also apply to his being out of position on defense. Frankly, I'm shocked he has played this well with this group of players for the short time he has been here.

I see the glass as half-full and wonder if the Suns would have as many wins without TT? I think not.

I think TT deserves a fresh start with the Suns and not have to carry the baggage he may have had elsewhere.

 

[George O'Brien]

It is hard to know how good TT could be once he gets in condition and learns the Suns system. Clearly he's got some talent and he seems well suited to what the Suns do. What is at issue is whether he's prepared to work hard enough to be the kind of player he COULD be.

Right now he's simply a pleasant addiition to the team, but as a free agent this summer he'll present a real problem. Do you try to re-sign him? Considering the luxury tax and team depth, I'd doubt it. Still, he might make that a very difficult decision.

 

[elindholm]

The only hope for re-signing Thomas is if no one decent wants to (or can) give him more than the MLE. If the difference is "small" by the standards of NBA salaries, I could see Thomas wanting to stay with a winning organization that emphasizes scoring. Heavens knows he's already made plenty of money. But if someone wants to give him more than the MLE and it's a situation that appeals to him, I can't see the Suns getting in a bidding war.

 

[George O'Brien]

The only hope for re-signing Thomas is if no one decent wants to (or can) give him more than the MLE. If the difference is "small" by the standards of NBA salaries, I could see Thomas wanting to stay with a winning organization that emphasizes scoring. Heavens knows he's already made plenty of money. But if someone wants to give him more than the MLE and it's a situation that appeals to him, I can't see the Suns getting in a bidding war.

I can't see the Suns going that high, since it would push them well into the luxury tax. Even a half MLE would require trading out of the draft and some other money saving moves. However, IMHO that would be worth it if he is willing to do what it takes to play up to his ability.

BTW, TT looks like he is second only to Marion when it comes to making put backs on offensive rebounds. He is an excellant offensive rebounder and a really outstanding finisher.

 

[elindholm]

Even a half MLE would require trading out of the draft and some other money saving moves.

Sure, but most likely those will be happening anyway. It's basically unheard of for a team to keep the same core of 6-8 players over multiple years. (Yes, I know the Pistons are doing that right now.)

 

[George O'Brien]

Even a half MLE would require trading out of the draft and some other money saving moves.

Sure, but most likely those will be happening anyway. It's basically unheard of for a team to keep the same core of 6-8 players over multiple years. (Yes, I know the Pistons are doing that right now.)

It's actually an interesting problem. If by some fluke they were healthy, some quality player would sit. Rotation players include:

Nash
Marion
Bell
Biaw
Jones
Barbosa
House
Tim Thomas

Add to that group Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas, and Brian Grant - that's 11. Even if we assumed that Grant would retire, that would be 10 rotation players for a coach who never uses more than 8 guys.

 

[elindholm]

House's recent play confirms what I've been saying all along: There is really no need for him in a healthy Suns rotation. So you're down to nine, and if it turned out by some miracle that all nine were healthy for a few consecutive months, Jones could always be traded.

 

[playstation]

next year given the contract situations, and hoping sarver doesn't continue to nickel and dime the team (waiving a 10 day contract??? you've GOT to be kidding me), i'm thinking here's our team:

Nash
Marion
Bell
Diaw
Jones
Barbosa
Kurt
Amare
draft pick
scrubs (tskita included)

i'd be nice to have tim t, but lets be honest here, its just not happening unless either barbosa, diaw, or kurt get traded, which i don't want. thomas is VERY good offensively, more than imagined, but absolutely clueless on defense. its really just sad to see him just plain miss rotations, not get out, and basically not really put much of an effort out there on the defensive side. I mean, James Jones at least puts a big effort out there.

 

[elindholm]

Sarver didn't save any money by waiving Barrett. They probably just wanted to let him get back to the NBDL as soon as possible.

 

[Azlen]

next year given the contract situations, and hoping sarver doesn't continue to nickel and dime the team (waiving a 10 day contract??? you've GOT to be kidding me)

From the Republic:

The Raptors snagged a body away from the Suns again.

Phoenix released Andre Barrett, playing on his second 10-day contract, on Wednesday so that he could sign with Toronto and have a better chance to play. Raptors President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo had considered bringing Barrett to Suns training camp before he signed Eddie House last summer as the Suns president and general manager.

Barrett returned from Seattle with the Suns on their charter flight, landing in Phoenix at about 3 a.m. Wednesday. He caught a 6:45 a.m. flight from Phoenix and, after a connection, was in Toronto six hours later. Less than 24 hours after sitting on the Suns bench in Seattle, Barrett played 15 minutes and had four points and six assists Wednesday night.

 

[George O'Brien]

I was wondering in this release might be related to the Hoiberg rumor.

 

[Errntknght]

FDog, "The real answer for Thomas' defensive woes is for him to lose at least 20 pounds, on the "Kurt Thomas diet". Right now TT has the thick upper body of Chris Webber and moves like him, too."

If TT sheds a few pounds as he gets in better shape, I've got no problem with that but I'd rather he kept most of his bulk. It's certainly possible that losing it would make him a trifle quicker on weakside help but we are more in need of someone to body up down on the defensive block. Against the Clips we double teamed Brand consistently except when Tim was guarding him - granted, the doubling didn't hurt in this particular game but we've seen others where it was excruciating. With a healthy KT it would be a different story but it's not at all clear that we'll have that this year.

I'm not even sure that TT getting into great shape is a good idea! Last night the one thing I didn't like was him defending unaggressively when Maggette drove. Now that could have been Tim reverting to form but maybe he had visions of playing 40 minutes and wanted to conserve his fouls. (It's really not an outlandish idea - he had to sit after after 3 fouls in 5 minutes the night before.) We don't want that kind of mindset and if he's in good enough shape to play 35-40 minutes, he's more likely to adopt it.

We've already got James Jones who is a much better help defender but doesn't give hard fouls and is relatively weak straight up so why try to turn TT into another JJ?

 

[panfolk]

lemme get this straight... with these guys:
Nash
Bell Barbosa
Marion Jones
Amare Diaw Skita
KT

we have a salary situation around 57 and a quarter million.
A draft pick in the latter half of the first round would cost roughly a million (a quarter more for the laker pick, a quarter less for the suns pick) which puts us at 58.5 if we keep the laker pick and ditch our pick (seems a likely scenario).
The luxury tax threshold is 62 million? (somebody correct me here). So we could sign TT for 3.5 million (roughly) for next year without Sarver having to pay luxury tax? I think that's reasonable unless he gets an exceptional offer elsewhere.

So we'd have:

Nash Draft Pick
Bell Barbs
Marion Jones Skita
Amare Diaw TT
KT Minimum Salary (Burke maybe)


I kinda don't see why we let Barrett go if he was doing well as we need a backup point and our Bigs situation is solidifying as people get healthy. Maybe we could trade up and get an impact point to go along with our rotation

If Hoiberg works out would he come back at the minimum for a ring?

 

[George O'Brien]

No one knows exactly where the luxury tax will be set next season. $62 seems optomistic to me, but I have no inside information.

 

[F-Dog]

We've already got James Jones who is a much better help defender but doesn't give hard fouls and is relatively weak straight up so why try to turn TT into another JJ?

I don't think it's a good idea to try to turn Tim Thomas into player X or player Y--he is what he is. I just think he'll be more effective playing his game if he gets in "Suns shape".