TJ Warren now

[BC867]

...80% of your roster isn't even fit to be bench players in the league.

Fourteen words that speak volumes. What a depressing situation!

That is not on the coaching staff, although we've had weak permanent Head Coaches because they came cheaply.

Both of the above sentences fall on the Owner and on the General Manager. An owner with a history of meddling. And inexperienced GM's who came cheaply.

Our severely unbalanced roster can never be better as a whole than the two guys running the show. They are so unknowledgeable in how to put together a combination of veteran (not over the hill) and young (who also come cheaply). Lack of balancing offense and defense. Even something as simple as productive Point Guards distributing the ball. Following the asinine experiment of three lead Point Guards to our current situation of two heavily flawed ones.

Our Phoenix Suns are a bargain basement basketball team. Or, as you said, Stefan, 80% not even fit to be bench players in the league.

After seven years of missing the playoffs (soon to be eight), there has been no progress, only constant trial and error. Absolutely unprofessional!

And, as I've shared before, the only solution would be to clean house, starting at the top. In which case, the Valley of the Sun would probably lose its original major professional team.

Damnit, damnit, damnit, there appears to be no hope in sight. We have seen the future and it is now.

I am a bachelor and I'm sorry to say that the days (actually evenings) of planning my schedule around watching Suns games are over. If I have nothing better to do, I'll turn them on and decide if I want to keep watching. This from a Suns fan from almost the beginning.

 

[Hoop Head]

I like Warren a lot but saw this note about his shooting in a Zach Lowe article. He's averaging 19 shots per 36 right now while only averaging 1.6 assists in that same amount of time. Only 27 players have shot that much assisting that little. He's not an awful passer but he needs to be a more willing passer.


http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/21528928/zach-lowe-10-things-like-including-ben-simmons-nba

 

[Raze]

I like Warren a lot but saw this note about his shooting in a Zach Lowe article. He's averaging 19 shots per 36 right now while only averaging 1.6 assists in that same amount of time. Only 27 players have shot that much assisting that little. He's not an awful passer but he needs to be a more willing passer.


http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/21528928/zach-lowe-10-things-like-including-ben-simmons-nba

Funny, I'm usually all over guys who don't pass, but I missed this. I guess I just accept that his role on this team right now is to lower his head and attack the basket with reckless abandon. I suppose over time, that'll have to change.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Funny, I'm usually all over guys who don't pass, but I missed this. I guess I just accept that his role on this team right now is to lower his head and attack the basket with reckless abandon. I suppose over time, that'll have to change.

I am not sure that there would be anyone in the NBA whose time of possession is as small relative to scoring as TJ. He catches and releases a shot almost in one motion. He rarely handles the ball enough to pass it. Usually when he catches, the best option for the score is for him to shoot. This stat matters little to me. In fact, I am happy with it. It is his role.

 

[JS22]

Nonsense, they need to play together. They just lost a cornerpiece of the offense in Bledsoe, give them time. Not to mention the 35 they each dropped in beating Minny.

TJ is a very very good overlooked player and deserves full playing time as the second scoring option in the offense.

Realistically he would be a solid #3 option on a good team, and a fantastic #4 on a championship level team. The Suns desperately need another scorer to pair with Booker. Kyrie Irving comes to mind. Does anyone say no to that trade now? (Supposedly) Jackson and Bledsoe for Irving?

Irving, Booker, and Warren would have made things much more interesting. That team might have been 1 more piece away from actually being competitive in the West. Looking at things now Jackson and Bledsoe would have been worth the risk of losing Irving after a few years.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I like Warren a lot but saw this note about his shooting in a Zach Lowe article. He's averaging 19 shots per 36 right now while only averaging 1.6 assists in that same amount of time. Only 27 players have shot that much assisting that little. He's not an awful passer but he needs to be a more willing passer.


http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/21528928/zach-lowe-10-things-like-including-ben-simmons-nba

Normally I would have an issue with this, but Tony buckets is effective. I want him shooting as much as he wants...

 

[elindholm]

Realistically he would be a solid #3 option on a good team, and a fantastic #4 on a championship level team. The Suns desperately need another scorer to pair with Booker. Kyrie Irving comes to mind. Does anyone say no to that trade now? (Supposedly) Jackson and Bledsoe for Irving?

It's a tough call, but I'd stick with Jackson. He doesn't look good so far, but he's not far from what I suspected. If he's really a superior athlete and has a great attitude, etc., then the Suns might as well roll the dice with him. If their long-term plan is to become better balanced in terms of offense versus defense, then another scorer like Irving is a move in the wrong direction.

I disagree that Irving/Bledsoe/Warren is close to competing for a title. A low playoff seed, probably. You say "one piece away," and if that piece is Anthony Davis, then maybe, but otherwise I don't see it. Irving is looking great in Boston right now, but that roster has a lot more talent than the Suns.

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree with Eric. Irving doesn't excite me at all, especially playing alongside Booker.

 

[Chaplin]

Normally I would have an issue with this, but Tony buckets is effective. I want him shooting as much as he wants...

I'm not sure TJ needs to pass more anyway. He is what he is--a good, consistent volume scorer. What we really need are other guys that can pass TO him. We don't have that.

 

[JS22]

I am far from an Irving homer, but watching Booker this year is frustrating. He needs another legit scorer next to him to take some of the pressure off. He's trying to carry the entire team by himself. Irving could have been that guy. But I will say at the time I was completely against giving up both Bledsoe and Jackson.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Right now, TJ is the number 12 scoring forward in the league--not sf--among all forwards.

1. Freak
2. LeBron
3. KD
4. Anthony Davis
5. Porzingis
6. Blake
7. Alderidge
8. Middleton
9. PG
10. KLove
11 Tyreke
12. TJ Warren
Of those, he is 8th in fg% and only KLove and Tyreke have less minutes per game.

Among small forwards he ranks

3rd in total points scored this year (James, KD).
3rd In scoring per 48 behind LeBron, Durant, and Michael Beasley (yes).
5th in scoring points per game only behind James, Durant, Middleton, and PG.
5th in double doubles
10th in rebounding
14th in blocked shots
23rd in steals

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics...r-game/sort/avgPoints/position/small-forwards

 

[hsandhu]

Incredible move signing him for a 12 million dollar deal. If he was a restricted free agent this summer he would get near otto porter moneh, 25 million a year, which would kill our cap flexibility going forward once booker signs the max

 

[JCSunsfan]

Incredible move signing him for a 12 million dollar deal. If he was a restricted free agent this summer he would get near otto porter moneh, 25 million a year, which would kill our cap flexibility going forward once booker signs the max

Do we give Sarver credit for this? We blamed him for the Joe Johnson failure.

 

[SirStefan32]

Do we give Sarver credit for this? We blamed him for the Joe Johnson failure.

Define "we". You and I do, but the board in general probably doesn't. Sarver could personally recruit Steph Curry and KAT tomorrow, and some folks would still say he was a cheap banker or some other damn thing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Define "we". You and I do, but the board in general probably doesn't. Sarver could personally recruit Steph Curry and KAT tomorrow, and some folks would still say he was a cheap banker or some other damn thing.

Lol... lame.

Of course he gets credit for this and any other good things he’s been a part of. Problem is those good things have been few and far between while he’s turned our franchise into a joke.

 

[Covert Rain]

Do we give Sarver credit for this? We blamed him for the Joe Johnson failure.

Huh? Why wouldn’t he get credit for both?

 

[BC867]

...some folks would still say he was a cheap banker or some other damn thing.

Guilty as charged. BTW, Sarver's bank in Tucson was rated very highly. But that is a private enterprise. Profit there is Sarver's only priority. (And, of course, not breaking the law.)

But being Managing General Partner of a sports franchise (even as a minority owner) is more like a public utility. It is in the public domain as well as being a business for investors.

In my opinion, that is where Sarver's difference between running his bank and the Suns lie. Especially since he tried to emulate Mark Cuban and turn himself into a celebrity.

 

[Raze]

I've been rather encouraged by TJ's efforts on D. He never was much of a defender but he's not a liability anymore. He's probably average at this point, and I'll take average for a guy that's scoring at will on the other end. If Booker can ever get up to average we could really have something here.

Triano seems to inspire max effort on both ends. Correct me if I'm wrong but Booker, Warren, Bender, and Len have all shown marked signs of improvement on aspects of their game. Ulis and Chriss have taken a dip, but Chriss at least is starting to show signs.

 

[hcsilla]

Incredible move signing him for a 12 million dollar deal. If he was a restricted free agent this summer he would get near otto porter moneh, 25 million a year,

There is no way he would, since Porter is on another level as a scorer and especially as a defender.

TJ's contract is OK, but I highly doubt that there would be a lot of suitors if he would be on the market and I would trade him even for some kind of chance of getting a higher pick.

Warren is a nice complementary scorer/ 6th man for a play-off/contender team but he is not a core player for a young rebuilding team lacking of overall talent.

 

[Hoop Head]

There is no way he would, since Porter is on another level as a scorer and especially as a defender.

TJ's contract is OK, but I highly doubt that there would be a lot of suitors if he would be on the market and I would trade him even for some kind of chance of getting a higher pick.

Warren is a nice complementary scorer/ 6th man for a play-off/contender team but he is not a core player for a young rebuilding team lacking of overall talent.

Warren's contract is a steal, it would be ok under the old salary cap but now salaries have virtually doubled across the league. He would have gotten upwards of $16-17 million on the open market, even Luol Deng got that much the offseason before this last one. Kent Bazemore got a contract starting at $16.9 million this offseason, so did Robert Covington. Warren at $11.1 next season is a bargain.

There are a number of SF's who are getting paid much more than Warren is due who are comparable in their talent or worse, like Otto Porter at $24.7, Chandler Parsons at $23.1, Harrison Barnes at $23.1, Gallinari at $20.5. When you factor in the cost I think the majority of teams in the league would take Warren over those 4 players, and those are only the ones making over $20 million a year. I'm not sure why he's under-appreciated by Suns fans but he's a really good starting SF and 2nd option right now. He's much better than any 2nd option we could get to compliment Booker in free agency this next summer so I don't understand why some people are that high on shipping him off.

For reference, here is a list of Small Forward's and what they're getting paid this year, 21 players are due more than TJ will make next season. Warren is easily a top 10 SF in the league right now and is only getting better....
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/small-forward/

 

[hcsilla]

Covington and Porter are much better players than Warren. Signing Deng to that contract was a terrible mistake and everybody knew that even at the time when the Lakers did it.

Parsons became one of the worst contracts in the league because he is always injured and even if he doesn't he is just a shadow of former himself because of the injuries. Gallinari is quite the same but he was also a much better than Warren when he signed his actual contract.

So I don't think that all these players are proofs that signing Warren to his deal is such a huge steal.

Yes, he is a better contract than Barnes and Bazemore and I think that signing him for 48 mil./ 4 year was a good move but consider him as one of the best deals in NBA and an untouchable player would be a sizeable mistake but it would be neither the 1st nor the last one done by this management.

 

[Mainstreet]

Indeed Warren's contract is a steal.

He may not be untouchable but he is a player you only include for a star player and then I would think about it twice.

 

[JCSunsfan]

TJ has become one of the best small forwards in the league. This isn’t last year. He is probably top 7.

 

[Praxis]

Good scorer but can't shoot the three. Gives you 20 PPG and a few boards and that's it. I'd be fine with trading him in a package for either a star player or top three pick in 2018.

 

[hsandhu]

Warren's contract is a steal, it would be ok under the old salary cap but now salaries have virtually doubled across the league. He would have gotten upwards of $16-17 million on the open market, even Luol Deng got that much the offseason before this last one. Kent Bazemore got a contract starting at $16.9 million this offseason, so did Robert Covington. Warren at $11.1 next season is a bargain.

There are a number of SF's who are getting paid much more than Warren is due who are comparable in their talent or worse, like Otto Porter at $24.7, Chandler Parsons at $23.1, Harrison Barnes at $23.1, Gallinari at $20.5. When you factor in the cost I think the majority of teams in the league would take Warren over those 4 players, and those are only the ones making over $20 million a year. I'm not sure why he's under-appreciated by Suns fans but he's a really good starting SF and 2nd option right now. He's much better than any 2nd option we could get in FA to compliment Booker in free agency this next summer so I don't understand why some people are that high on shipping him off.

For reference, here is a list of Small Forward's and what they're getting paid this year, 21 players are due more than TJ will make next season. Warren is easily a top 10 SF in the league right now and is only getting better....
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/small-forward/

I don't know if that person even watches basketball, otto porter way ahead of tj as a scorer... They main criticism of porter is his inability to create his own shot and put the ball on the floor, kind of a requirement for a great scorer.

He's a great shooter out to 3 which tj can't do, everywhere else tj has advantage on offense. Try making porter the second option on suns instead of getting open looks because of beal and wall and see how he does.