TJ Warren

[slinslin]

Warren in the last few weeks has quit on several plays bc he was sulking about calls and did not get back on defense.

I think the hole at the 4 spot is just as big as the PG problem both on defense and offense.

Hence why I still suggest a warren for Gordon swap or Warren+Anderson for Love even.

Adding a more PF leaning forward and a PG who can play the PNR and inside out would make a big difference.

 

[Hoop Head]

Warren in the last few weeks has quit on several plays bc he was sulking about calls and did not get back on defense.

I think the hole at the 4 spot is just as big as the PG problem both on defense and offense.

Hence why I still suggest a Waeewn for Gordon swap or Warren+Anderson for Love even.

Adding a more PF leaning forward and a PG who can play the PNR and inside out would make a big difference.

Outside of guys like Love and Gordon who else would you be open to? Those 2 are franchise players for their current team and I can't see them being available for a reasonable price, especially Gordon. I'm curious what other PF's you might be interested in that TJ and the Bucks pick could bring back on their own. I know Tobias Harris, Nikola Mirotic, Julius Randle, and Jabari Parker are all names that have come up at various times as serious targets but I'm not sold on Harris. I don't see the Clippers letting him go so he'd be expensive if he were available. I think the Pelicans will end up having to choose between Mirotic and Randle but they each bring different things to the floor. Parker is someone I'd like to stay away from if he costs more than $3 or $4 million a year. He's got a team option for $20 million next season but he's fallen out of the Bulls rotation so I can't see them picking it up because no one will trade for him at that price.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's because the Suns' players haven't yet learned what fouls they can get away with. Siakam used his off arm to keep Ayton away, but he knew it wouldn't be called.

There is a photo of Siakam doing this in the photo gallery at the link below.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ting-boils-over-suns-loss-toronto/2612060002/

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's because the Suns' players haven't yet learned what fouls they can get away with. Siakam used his off arm to keep Ayton away, but he knew it wouldn't be called.

Ayton had all the proper footwork and movement, but I think he was scared of getting called for a foul so he didn't swipe at the ball. Hopefully, as his stardom grows, he will start to expect refs to give him the benefit of the doubt on both ends.

I think you both are right. This is one of the hazards of having a young team. It is tough waiting for younger players to mature, but its where we are. It is easy to get frustrated thinking of all the years that we have been out of the playoffs, but being impatient will not get us there any faster. Getting better is going to take time from here. There is just no way around it.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think you both are right. This is one of the hazards of having a young team. It is tough waiting for younger players to mature, but its where we are. It is easy to get frustrated thinking of all the years that we have been out of the playoffs, but being impatient will not get us there any faster. Getting better is going to take time from here. There is just no way around it.

I mean it could get us to the playoffs faster, but it could also limit just how good we can get in the long run.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Outside of guys like Love and Gordon who else would you be open to? Those 2 are franchise players for their current team and I can't see them being available for a reasonable price, especially Gordon. I'm curious what other PF's you might be interested in that TJ and the Bucks pick could bring back on their own. I know Tobias Harris, Nikola Mirotic, Julius Randle, and Jabari Parker are all names that have come up at various times as serious targets but I'm not sold on Harris. I don't see the Clippers letting him go so he'd be expensive if he were available. I think the Pelicans will end up having to choose between Mirotic and Randle but they each bring different things to the floor. Parker is someone I'd like to stay away from if he costs more than $3 or $4 million a year. He's got a team option for $20 million next season but he's fallen out of the Bulls rotation so I can't see them picking it up because no one will trade for him at that price.

I think the Cavs would love for someone to swoop in and take Love off their hands.

 

[Proximo]

I'm thinking maybe a TJ for Jrue Holiday trade may make sense during the offseason.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'm thinking maybe a TJ for Jrue Holiday trade may make sense during the offseason.

I hope so, but the Suns would need to throw in a lot more.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I hope so, but the Suns would need to throw in a lot more.

Then I wouldn't do it. Jrue has missed a lot of games and comes in with a pretty high salary - not John Wall high, but still 26M for 3 more years is risky considering his injury history. And I doubt he'd be available at all, even if they were rebuilding, if it weren't for concern over that stress fracture that bothered him for years.

IMO a big part of Warren's value is that he outplays his salary. I think that has to be factored in when looking at possible trade scenarios. No doubt Jrue impacts the game much more than TJ does but age and money are on Warren's side. I think something like TJ plus the Milwaukee pick makes sense although obviously there would need to be fillers to make it work. If you're right and they need significantly more value than that I think we'd be better off passing.

 

[1Sun]

I would add the Milwaukee pick and either Okobo or Melton to Warren in a package for Jrue Holiday or Mike Conley.

 

[SirStefan32]

Then I wouldn't do it. Jrue has missed a lot of games and comes in with a pretty high salary - not John Wall high, but still 26M for 3 more years is risky considering his injury history. And I doubt he'd be available at all, even if they were rebuilding, if it weren't for concern over that stress fracture that bothered him for years.

IMO a big part of Warren's value is that he outplays his salary. I think that has to be factored in when looking at possible trade scenarios. No doubt Jrue impacts the game much more than TJ does but age and money are on Warren's side. I think something like TJ plus the Milwaukee pick makes sense although obviously there would need to be fillers to make it work. If you're right and they need significantly more value than that I think we'd be better off passing.

Last year, someone (Eric, I think) suggested Holiday. I dismissed the idea due to his salary and I remembered some drama around his injuries. Earlier this year, after watching him play, I actually did some digging.

Let's start with these "injury concerns." I may be wrong, but I don't believe he's missed any time last year or this year, outside of one or two random games. The year before he missed the beginning of the season, but that was due to personal reasons (I believe he was taking care of his wife, if I remember correctly. This injury concern is nonsense. Sixers didn't disclose an injury, he had a surgery and some brief complications and that was it.

As for his salary, sure it's a lot, but it's not really that outrageous considering he is a good scorer, a capable play maker, and the best defensive guard in the NBA. Suns are OK financially for the next three years.

Also, he is 28, so I am not sure what his age has to do with anything. It's not like he is 35. Frankly, the Suns could use someone in their rotation who is not in the 19-22 age range. I am sure that an average team would prefer a 25 year old, but I think that's a very small factor.

My guess is that the only way Pelicans trade him is if they decide to blow it up since AD is leaving for LA. Even then, I am sure they would want a good player in return, along with a nice draft pick, a youngster or two, and some expiring contracts. I am guessing they would want Warren, one of the PGs, Suns's pick, Bucks' pick, and the expiring Daniels and Bender. I would do it. Holiday is locked in for a couple of years and he is literally the perfect fit with Booker. Decent fit with Ayton since he has experience playing with AD.

Oddly enough, if we take Holiday trade out of the picture, Warren would be the perfect fit on that team. There is enough defense to hide Warren, and he would give them additional scoring and shooting, which they so desperately need. Unfortunately, they have nobody else the Suns would want (that are not expiring contracts that could sign elsewhere.)

 

[95pro]

Might be able to get Conley without being raped if the grizzly blow it up after this season.

 

[elindholm]

Might be able to get Conley without being raped if the grizzly blow it up after this season.

He'll be 32 at the start of next season. I'm not one of those "timeline" guys, but to pay $67 million for two years of a declining player doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Also, he is 28, so I am not sure what his age has to do with anything. It's not like he is 35. Frankly, the Suns could use someone in their rotation who is not in the 19-22 age range. I am sure that an average team would prefer a 25 year old, but I think that's a very small factor.

My guess is that the only way Pelicans trade him is if they decide to blow it up since AD is leaving for LA. Even then, I am sure they would want a good player in return, along with a nice draft pick, a youngster or two, and some expiring contracts. I am guessing they would want Warren, one of the PGs, Suns's pick, Bucks' pick, and the expiring Daniels and Bender. I would do it. Holiday is locked in for a couple of years and he is literally the perfect fit with Booker. Decent fit with Ayton since he has experience playing with AD.

Oddly enough, if we take Holiday trade out of the picture, Warren would be the perfect fit on that team. There is enough defense to hide Warren, and he would give them additional scoring and shooting, which they so desperately need. Unfortunately, they have nobody else the Suns would want (that are not expiring contracts that could sign elsewhere.)

I don't have a problem adding a 29 year old guard as our starter next season. My point was in weighing trade value that Holiday has a lot of advantages over TJ as a player but Warren has age and salary on his side. As for his injuries, make of them what you will but he's missed a lot of games and I don't think one and a half seasons of good health makes up for all those lost games. Granted I might focus too much on injuries but I just don't want to go through another Bledsoe or Stat situation if it can be helped.

 

[SirStefan32]

He'll be 32 at the start of next season. I'm not one of those "timeline" guys, but to pay $67 million for two years of a declining player doesn't make much sense to me.

Yeah, Conley would be a desperation move.

 

[95pro]

He'll be 32 at the start of next season. I'm not one of those "timeline" guys, but to pay $67 million for two years of a declining player doesn't make much sense to me.

And he hasn't been good the last couple of years, injuries too.

 

[devilalum]

Yeah, Conley would be a desperation move.

The money is the biggest issue there. Signing an older proven PG and drafting his apprentice might be a good path though.

 

[overseascardfan]

I wish we could deal Warren to Brooklyn for Russell and maybe kick in Okobo or Melton if necessary. Russell is starting to develop into the player LA though they were getting when they took him #2 overall. Hell, I bet LA wishes they kept him instead of dealing him so they could draft Ball. However, I think Brooklyn would ask for either Jackson or Oubre in a deal for Russell.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wish we could deal Warren to Brooklyn for Russell and maybe kick in Okobo or Melton if necessary. Russell is starting to develop into the player LA though they were getting when they took him #2 overall. Hell, I bet LA wishes they kept him instead of dealing him so they could draft Ball. However, I think Brooklyn would ask for either Jackson or Oubre in a deal for Russell.

I'd trade Oubre straight up for Russell but I don't think we can combine him with anyone else if they require more than him. We're really going to have a tough call with Kelly when the season ends. He can be a difference maker at times but he's a very low IQ player and is even more selfish than TJ. I'd like to keep him but I just don't know if I'd be willing to meet his salary demands.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wish we could deal Warren to Brooklyn for Russell and maybe kick in Okobo or Melton if necessary. Russell is starting to develop into the player LA though they were getting when they took him #2 overall. Hell, I bet LA wishes they kept him instead of dealing him so they could draft Ball. However, I think Brooklyn would ask for either Jackson or Oubre in a deal for Russell.

I think the Nets are not looking to trade one of their best players unless it is a killer deal. They seem to be on the right track.

The Suns best bet might be to find a team that has not lived up to expectations who has a point guard they are willing to trade.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think the Nets are not looking to trade one of their best players unless it is a killer deal. They seem to be on the right track.

The Suns best bet might be to find a team that has not lived up to expectations who has a point guard they are willing to trade.

Unless Brooklyn is willing to pay Russell a max deal then they may lose him this offseason for nothing. They already spent big money on Dinwiddie so to spend another $15M a year on Russell may be overkill when they could use that money on other needs. I could see them not wanting to trade Russell if they hadn't signed Dinwiddie to that extension but it appears they made their choice on their PGOTF.

 

[95pro]

Unless Brooklyn is willing to pay Russell a max deal then they may lose him this offseason for nothing. They already spent big money on Dinwiddie so to spend another $15M a year on Russell may be overkill when they could use that money on other needs. I could see them not wanting to trade Russell if they hadn't signed Dinwiddie to that extension but it appears they made their choice on their PGOTF.

Isn't it more like 20M to keep Russell

 

[JCSunsfan]

Unless Brooklyn is willing to pay Russell a max deal then they may lose him this offseason for nothing. They already spent big money on Dinwiddie so to spend another $15M a year on Russell may be overkill when they could use that money on other needs. I could see them not wanting to trade Russell if they hadn't signed Dinwiddie to that extension but it appears they made their choice on their PGOTF.

Russell is not going to command max money. He will get paid well, but not that much.

 

[bwgood77]

Look, in order to get something good, you have to give up something good. And on my list, Warren is #1 as a trade chip I'd be willing to trade in a good package. Do I want to jettison him off for peanuts? Of course not. But if a team gives us the choice of Warren, or say, Jackson, as a component of a deal for a starting PG or even a starting PF, I know who I'd pick every time.

Yes, of course you trade Jackson. He is a HUGE net negative on the court every time turning it over more than he assists and being one of the most putrid shooters and offensive guys in the entire NBA. If he can net you anything at this point, that's a plus, but an equal return to TJ, no question Jackson's gotta go.

 

[bwgood77]

Unless Brooklyn is willing to pay Russell a max deal then they may lose him this offseason for nothing. They already spent big money on Dinwiddie so to spend another $15M a year on Russell may be overkill when they could use that money on other needs. I could see them not wanting to trade Russell if they hadn't signed Dinwiddie to that extension but it appears they made their choice on their PGOTF.

They didn't sign Dinwiddie to big money...they got him on a great deal and have a boatload of wings. No way they trade him for Oubre, Jackson or Warren. They may pay him the max (if they have to..but that's doubtful) unless they can sign a superstar with all their cap space.