Tom Brady=Most overrated QB in NFL

[Duckjake]

tainted?

Pigskin Spygate

 

[Renz]

Warner, Marino and others were throwing the ball downfield. Look at the offense the Patriots run. Why do you think Brady only had 4 INT's this year. A lot of their passing plays are quick slants and screens. Very rarely do you see a Brady pass go longer than 5 yards. Can you say the same for Warner, Marino, Young etc? Those guys aired it out and spread the field.

No QB who throws 36 TD's and 4 INT's while his team goes 14-2 can be overrated. Brady also averaged 7.9 yards-per-completion this season, which was 4th in the league.

You are just hating here.

 

[Pariah]

I don't see the agruement. The Patriots don't have a downfield threat. The Cardinals have Fitzgerald and the cardinals qb couldn't hit Fitzgerald downfield.

When they did have a deep threat (moss) all he did was have 259 receptions for 3,904 yards and 50 TDs (that includes 55 plays of more than 20 yards and 19 plays of more than 40).

Moss wasn't really a YAC guy, either. He was a fly-route guy all the way.

Ct, I know you probably feel like you're getting ganged up on...but just about every other person on the planet thinks Brady is a really, really great QB. There is a definite argument for him to be in the top-5 of all time based on just about any measure.

For the record, my top-5 is somewhat fluid, but the guys in the discussion:

Elway
Unitas
Young
Marino
Favre
Manning
Brady

(yes, it's weighted to modern-day QBs. I'm a whipper-snapper, what can I say?)

 

[TheHopToad]

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Unitas
4. Marino
5. Brady

 

[Buckybird]

Warner, Marino and others were throwing the ball downfield. Look at the offense the Patriots run. Why do you think Brady only had 4 INT's this year. A lot of their passing plays are quick slants and screens. Very rarely do you see a Brady pass go longer than 5 yards. Can you say the same for Warner, Marino, Young etc? Those guys aired it out and spread the field.

See what you want to see. The game has slightly changed from the '70's & 80's to a shorter passing game to some extent because the completion %'s have gone up. But to say Brady is all dink & dunk is insane...everyone does it because the game has changed.

These are the career #'s for yards per attempt including last 3 years of eachs career:

Brady 6.9 (hurt in game 1)
7.8
7.9
7.4 (career)

Marino 6.9
6.5
6.6
7.3 (career)

Favre 6.7
7.9
7.0
7.1 (career)

Manning 7.2
7.9
6.9
7.6 (career)

Warner 7.6
7.7
7.3
7.9 (career)

 

[AzStevenCal]

1 Montana
2 Elway
3 Unitas
4 Young
5 Manning
6 Brady
7 Staubach
8 Tarnkenton
9 Favre
10 Marino/Starr

Steve

 

[CtCardinals78]

Ct, I know you probably feel like you're getting ganged up on...but just about every other person on the planet thinks Brady is a really, really great QB. There is a definite argument for him to be in the top-5 of all time based on just about any measure.

It's all good. We all have different opinions. I still think Brady is a good QB, but IMO in nowhere near top 5 all-time. I still say if you take Brady away from Belichick and put him on any other team he is average at best. How many of you in here feel that if Brady played the past 11 years in Jacksonville we would even be having this discussion?

 

[sportznutt]

If Brady were in Jacksonville, we may not be talking about New England as much.

If Brady is nowhere near top 5 QB's of all-time, where would he rank? Nowhere near, to me, means not even top 25........

 

[Duckjake]

It's all good. We all have different opinions. I still think Brady is a good QB, but IMO in nowhere near top 5 all-time. I still say if you take Brady away from Belichick and put him on any other team he is average at best. How many of you in here feel that if Brady played the past 11 years in Jacksonville we would even be having this discussion?

Just for the record Ct I agree with you. System QB but an excellent system QB. Just can't get past Belichick inserting yet another late round QB (7th) and going 11-5 while Brady was out. BB may not be likable but the guy can coach.

If Brady is so great and QB is THE position to win why have the Pats gone one and done in the playoffs the last two seasons? At home. Hmmm...ShaneH was talking about the Pats having a ton of relatively new players on their roster. Could that be it? Veteran players win and the Pats don't have as many as they used to?

However, after tonight Brady shouldn't be the topic of conversation. What should be foremost in everyone's mind is the Jets pass defense. Brady had all day to throw several times and couldn't find a receiver. Just outstanding coverage. What are they doing that the Cardinals can't?

 

[Buckybird]

It's all good. We all have different opinions. I still think Brady is a good QB, but IMO in nowhere near top 5 all-time. I still say if you take Brady away from Belichick and put him on any other team he is average at best. How many of you in here feel that if Brady played the past 11 years in Jacksonville we would even be having this discussion?

Great QB's make all NFL teams better.

How good are the Colts without Manning this year?

 

[Cheesebeef]

However, after tonight Brady shouldn't be the topic of conversation. What should be foremost in everyone's mind is the Jets pass defense. Brady had all day to throw several times and couldn't find a receiver. Just outstanding coverage. What are they doing that the Cardinals can't?

signing big time FAs, keeping their own big time FA, ADDING to their defense instead of subtracting or replacing and drafting well? Pretty much nothing the Cardinals do.

 

[desertdawg]

1. Warner
2. Skelton
3. Lomax
4. Hart
5 "The Leeen-art"

 

[PoolBoy]

this could be the most nonsense thing i have seen on this board

 

[Bert]

When they did have a deep threat (moss) all he did was have 259 receptions for 3,904 yards and 50 TDs (that includes 55 plays of more than 20 yards and 19 plays of more than 40).

Moss wasn't really a YAC guy, either. He was a fly-route guy all the way.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[AzStevenCal]

signing big time FAs, keeping their own big time FA, ADDING to their defense instead of subtracting or replacing and drafting well? Pretty much nothing the Cardinals do.

I think the one thing they've done so much better than the Cards is knowing when to NOT keep their big time FA's. They've let several of their big name players move on. They always seem to know which free agents (theirs and others) still have enough mileage left to justify a contract and which ones they should just let walk. Steal that blueprint and we'd be a lot better off.

Steve

 

[NJCardFan]

And again it's the system Belichick runs. I can very eaisly make the argument that had the Pats made the playoffs in 2008 they had a real show at going all the way...with Matt Cassel as their QB, would that make Cassel and wlite QB as well?

So, what you're saying, then, is that the 49ers dynasty was more Walsh than Montana? So I guess Joe Montana was overrated?

 

[Shane]

So, what you're saying, then, is that the 49ers dynasty was more Walsh than Montana? So I guess Joe Montana was overrated?

Yup! Joe Montana and Steve Young were the epitome of "system" QB's who's system was built on the the short timing patterns and YAC ability of the WR's.

CT and anyone else saying what they are about Brady would almost have to lump Montana in the same category.

 

[Southpaw]

I'm sorry but he is. I have seen him play since he came into this league. I don't care about the league MVP's and Super Bowl rings he has. The Patriots run a high percentage offense and that greatly inflates his numbers. Their offense is predicated on Brady being able to throw screen and quick slants. This is exactly the reason why Matt Cassel was able to guide the Pats to their 11-5 record when he got hurt. He can not do the things Manning does and he doesn't have the awareness or arm Roethlisberger does.

No.

 

[82CardsGrad]

These debates are always funny to listen to... IMHO, it's impossible to decipher "who was better" when you are debating historically great players such as Montana, Young, Marino, Manning, Brady, etc...

There are simply way too many variables and questions that can't be answered.
The stuff about "system" QB's is also a crack up... What - were the 9ers the only team that had a "system"? Or the Pats??

If Marino would have played on the 9ers, would he have won 4 Super Bowls? Or, it Montana, or Young, or Brady had played on those Dolphin teams, would they have suffered the same fate as Marino? Who knows...

With respect to Brady and his ranking in comparison to such greats as Montana and Young - it seems pretty clear to me that Brady has never had the type of incredible talent, on either side of the ball, that those and other great QB's have had. What happened yesterday against the Jets highlighted this fact, as, the Pats are no talented enough to overcome a so-so game from Brady. Even on defense, aside from Wilfork, who the heck do they have?? And on offense, if guys like Branch, Welker, The Law Firm, Woodhead, etc all played on other teams, would we ever hear from them? Of course not...

Montana was 16 & 7 with 4 one and dones in the post season over his career. Brady is 14 & 5 with 2 one and dones... I think it's safe to say to debate these two is truly an exercise in futility. They are both alltime great. And, given what the Pats have in terms of draft picks for this upcoming draft season, odds are pretty solid we're gonna hear from Brady and Belichek again and again over the next few years.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yeah, they can do more than throw screen passes and that makes them more complete QB's than Brady. Come on Shane, I could run that system in New England and become one of the greatest QB's of all time too.

Serious delusions of adequacy, my friend.

 

[moklerman]

I think Brady could be considered overrated. Mainly because no other QB has had the luxury of protection that he's had over the course of his career. Bledsoe winning that game in Pittsburgh in '01 & Cassel as the greenest QB to ever start in the NFL in '07 seem to also support that other QB's may have been able to replicate a lot of what Brady did if they were in his place.

Also, Brady showing up small in the SB vs. the Giants and 1 and done vs. the Ravens in '09 and the Jets in '10 as his last 3 playoff games shows an inequity between regular season and post season that is at least suggestive.

Since '04 when the Patriots were about "team" and winning games with defense and late with Vinateri FG's they have seemingly gone to a "Brady and the Patriots" approach. Since that Super Bowl though, Brady's passer ratings in the post season:
116.4(JAX), 74.0, 101.6, 57.6, 79.5, 141.4(JAX), 66.5, 82.5, 49.1, 89.0.

95.6 regular season rating during his career, 85.7 during the post season. Someone mentioned Montana. He went from 92 to 95. Warner would never be in the GOAT discussion but he went from 93.7 to 102.8. Bradshaw went from 70.9 to 83.

Just a few examples but it illustrates, IMO, what great QB's do in the post season. Getting fat by running up the scoreboard in the regular season and then getting beat in the post season, although an oversimplification, fits Brady a lot more than some of these other guys in the "greatest" discussion.

The same type of thing could be said of Peyton. As great as he is, his legacy is still handcuffed to his relative lack of success in the postseason. Since NE shifted to being dependent on Brady and making it about him, they haven't had the same type of success. I think it's too far to the extreme to argue that "any" QB would have had success with NE but it's hard not to imagine "what if?" with say, Elway with that team and that protection from '01 to '04. Or Warner. Or Marino. Or Phil Simms for that matter.

Brady has been an incredible surprise and value but there are some things that bring into question just how much has NE's overall success been because of him and how much has been because of other factors?

 

[splitsecond]

all of this because the Pats got outcoached yesterday? come on guys. even the best lose a game here and there.

 

[Mulli]

I think Brady could be considered overrated. Mainly because no other QB has had the luxury of protection that he's had over the course of his career. Bledsoe winning that game in Pittsburgh in '01 & Cassel as the greenest QB to ever start in the NFL in '07 seem to also support that other QB's may have been able to replicate a lot of what Brady did if they were in his place.

Also, Brady showing up small in the SB vs. the Giants and 1 and done vs. the Ravens in '09 and the Jets in '10 as his last 3 playoff games shows an inequity between regular season and post season that is at least suggestive.

Since '04 when the Patriots were about "team" and winning games with defense and late with Vinateri FG's they have seemingly gone to a "Brady and the Patriots" approach. Since that Super Bowl though, Brady's passer ratings in the post season:
116.4(JAX), 74.0, 101.6, 57.6, 79.5, 141.4(JAX), 66.5, 82.5, 49.1, 89.0.

95.6 regular season rating during his career, 85.7 during the post season. Someone mentioned Montana. He went from 92 to 95. Warner would never be in the GOAT discussion but he went from 93.7 to 102.8. Bradshaw went from 70.9 to 83.

Just a few examples but it illustrates, IMO, what great QB's do in the post season. Getting fat by running up the scoreboard in the regular season and then getting beat in the post season, although an oversimplification, fits Brady a lot more than some of these other guys in the "greatest" discussion.

The same type of thing could be said of Peyton. As great as he is, his legacy is still handcuffed to his relative lack of success in the postseason. Since NE shifted to being dependent on Brady and making it about him, they haven't had the same type of success. I think it's too far to the extreme to argue that "any" QB would have had success with NE but it's hard not to imagine "what if?" with say, Elway with that team and that protection from '01 to '04. Or Warner. Or Marino. Or Phil Simms for that matter.

Brady has been an incredible surprise and value but there are some things that bring into question just how much has NE's overall success been because of him and how much has been because of other factors?

2007 Super Bowl. 29/48 266 yards. 1 td 0 int. Had game one but for miracle catches by the Giants.

People are rewriting history.

 

[moklerman]

2007 Super Bowl. 29/48 266 yards. 1 td 0 int. Had game one but for miracle catches by the Giants.

People are rewriting history.

Showed up small. That's what I wrote.

In '07, Brady averaged 300+ yards per game and 3.125 TD/Game and had a 117.2 rating on the year. His rating in the SB was 82.5.

His ypa went from 9.4 during the season to 5.4 in the SB. His TD% went from 8.7% to 2.1%. Completion % went from 68.9% to 60.4%.

A 25 point drop in rating.
A 4 yard drop in yards per attempt.
A 6.5% drop in TD%.
And 8%+ drop in completion %.

Dude showed up small when he was the MVP and that particular team was all about him throwing the ball. No history revision on my part.

 

[Pariah]

In '07, Brady averaged 300+ yards per game and 3.125 TD/Game and had a 117.2 rating on the year. His rating in the SB was 82.5.

He still had a good game against a defense that abused him physically. I think most QBs would have had an awful day; he didn't.