Trade candidates around the league

[Matt L]

I think West traded him because he is being paid like a top 20 player in the league and unfortunately with the injuries, age and wear and tear, he is not that guy.

He had one of his best statistical years ever, both offense and defense including advanced stats. I do not watch him closely enough to argue with you on this one, I am just not sure exactly where you are coming from on this. It is true that Jerry West dealt him. Do you know why? Quick rebuild with younger players is what I thought.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think West traded him because he is being paid like a top 20 player in the league and unfortunately with the injuries, age and wear and tear, he is not that guy.

Yeah, he was still a strong player for the Clippers but he was being paid like a superstar and he is at least a level below that now. He's not alone, it's interesting to me that something like 5 of the 9 highest paid players have now been traded since they got their big payday.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The super maxes are rediculous. They were designed for small market teams to keep superstars but now the Supermax almost guarantees a small market team has to trade their star player. Other teams benefit from a smaller deal because the former team could not pay the supermax—cousins and Kemba are examples.

 

[Phrazbit]

The super maxes are rediculous. They were designed for small market teams to keep superstars but now the Supermax almost guarantees a small market team has to trade their star player. Other teams benefit from a smaller deal because the former team could not pay the supermax—cousins and Kemba are examples.

I vehemently disagree with those examples.

The Kings chose to move on from Cousins, and every indication appears that they were justified in doing so (one of the few smart moves they've made in years). If they wanted to pay Cousins top dollar they could have kept him, but they let him go, not over money but because they felt like cashing out on an asset before everyone else knew what they knew; Cousins, achillies tear or not, isn't a difference maker and he never has been. They got better without him, the Pelicans and Warriors got worse with him.

As for Kemba Walker... the Hornets are idiots. I don't know what else to say. They have a near monopoly on "WTF!?!" contracts, and they only strengthened it by signing Rozier to that idiotic contract. They could have kept Walker, Walker indicated that he wanted to stay, but the Hornets, idiotically, thought it wiser to pay Rozier nearly 20 mil a year than pay Walker a max deal.

Moral of the story, in both situations, the team chose to move on from the player, not that they were priced out of retaining them.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I vehemently disagree with those examples.

The Kings chose to move on from Cousins, and every indication appears that they were justified in doing so (one of the few smart moves they've made in years). If they wanted to pay Cousins top dollar they could have kept him, but they let him go, not over money but because they felt like cashing out on an asset before everyone else knew what they knew; Cousins, achillies tear or not, isn't a difference maker and he never has been. They got better without him, the Pelicans and Warriors got worse with him.

As for Kemba Walker... the Hornets are idiots. I don't know what else to say. They have a near monopoly on "WTF!?!" contracts, and they only strengthened it by signing Rozier to that idiotic contract. They could have kept Walker, Walker indicated that he wanted to stay, but the Hornets, idiotically, thought it wiser to pay Rozier nearly 20 mil a year than pay Walker a max deal.

Moral of the story, in both situations, the team chose to move on from the player, not that they were priced out of retaining them.

I think both teams would have kept those players on regular max deals. They did not want to pay the supermax. Charlotte said as much. So both players took that to mean they were unwanted and moved on and signed max deals, not supermax deals with other teams.

Well. That is not correct for Cousins. Sacramento traded him before it came to a head.

The Suns are going to have that dilemma with Booker. He is fine on a max contract, but becomes a liability on a supermax.

John Wall is another example. Even healthy, he is not worth that deal. It would be better to lower, by a little, the max contract a team can offer a free agent from another team, and give the home team no max whatsoever. It would make it easier to resign players and make them more valuable in trade right to the end.

 

[Mainstreet]

Griffin has an atrocious contract and is NOT a star anymore. He puts up empty stats on a mediocre team, isn't a good defender, or rebounder and getting him and putting him next to Ayton would ensure we are stuck as a 40-50 win team for the duration of his deal.

No way Reilly or Jerry West would deal for him... in fact, West was WITH the Clippers after they signed Griffin to that contract and was then one of the loudest voices for getting rid of him to rebuild.

I liked Tobias Harris much more than Griffin when the Clippers traded for him but now he is making $180 million on a 5 year contract with the 76ers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns are going to have that dilemma with Booker. He is fine on a max contract, but becomes a liability on a supermax.

I'm a huge Booker fan but if he qualifies for the super max we can only hope we're smart enough to move him the year before it happens. I don't believe anyone is worth the supermax, not from the perspective of winning a championship anyway. I guess someone like Yao Ming or even Lebron can justify that salary from a financial standpoint but I believe it's almost impossible to build a championship team with one or more SM players already on the roster.

But, as I've said several times before, the worst part about the supermax is that it has opened the door for a lot more players to be viewed as max or near max. Booker was nowhere near worthy of the max deal when it was signed but in today's market, thanks to the supermax, it's almost mandatory. Players like Devin and D'angelo Russell might eventually be worth the max (in any era) but it should be rare for it to occur on their first non-rookie deal.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm a huge Booker fan but if he qualifies for the super max we can only hope we're smart enough to move him the year before it happens. I don't believe anyone is worth the supermax, not from the perspective of winning a championship anyway. I guess someone like Yao Ming or even Lebron can justify that salary from a financial standpoint but I believe it's almost impossible to build a championship team with one or more SM players already on the roster.

But, as I've said several times before, the worst part about the supermax is that it has opened the door for a lot more players to be viewed as max or near max. Booker was nowhere near worthy of the max deal when it was signed but in today's market, thanks to the supermax, it's almost mandatory. Players like Devin and D'angelo Russell might eventually be worth the max (in any era) but it should be rare for it to occur on their first non-rookie deal.

Didn't Steph recently sign the supermax? I think he could be the rare exception of someone getting it without it hindering their team's ability to stay competitive. They're in a unique situation in Golden State though because they're in a huge market with a brand new arena and already have all of their stars under contract. They had the opportunity to add a 4th star also because of how their other stars deals were staggered as far as when they expired.

Of course Steph helped them win a title before he got that supermax and if Booker can win us a title before his next deal, I don't give a damn if we pay him the supermax, he'll have earned it if we're NBA Champions though.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Didn't Steph recently sign the supermax? I think he could be the rare exception of someone getting it without it hindering their team's ability to stay competitive. They're in a unique situation in Golden State though because they're in a huge market with a brand new arena and already have all of their stars under contract. They had the opportunity to add a 4th star also because of how their other stars deals were staggered as far as when they expired.

Of course Steph helped them win a title before he got that supermax and if Booker can win us a title before his next deal, I don't give a damn if we pay him the supermax, he'll have earned it if we're NBA Champions though.

I probably didn't explain myself well enough but I do think you can mix and match on a championship team with 1 or more maxed out stars, I just think you would almost always need the nucleus in place before the first Super max deal gets handed out.

 

[Johninromania]

Didn't Steph recently sign the supermax? I think he could be the rare exception of someone getting it without it hindering their team's ability to stay competitive. They're in a unique situation in Golden State though because they're in a huge market with a brand new arena and already have all of their stars under contract. They had the opportunity to add a 4th star also because of how their other stars deals were staggered as far as when they expired.

Of course Steph helped them win a title before he got that supermax and if Booker can win us a title before his next deal, I don't give a damn if we pay him the supermax, he'll have earned it if we're NBA Champions though.

From what I understand, the Bay Area outside the Giants is a horrible market. I forgot where I read it, but there are more Laker fans in the Bay Area then Warrior fans. I could be wrong, but I had the feeling when I visited the Bay Area that the warriors where second or third fiddle in that town.

 

[BC867]

From what I understand, the Bay Area outside the Giants is a horrible market. I forgot where I read it, but there are more Laker fans in the Bay Area then Warrior fans. I could be wrong, but I had the feeling when I visited the Bay Area that the warriors where second or third fiddle in that town.

My cousin is a psychiatrist in San Fran. He is a red-hot Giants fan, but couldn't care less about the Warriers across the Bay.

They have hardly been a strong Bay Area team. I don't understand why they didn't move them to San Francisco a long time ago.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He had one of his best statistical years ever, both offense and defense including advanced stats.

How is this possible when he just had his lowest rebounding year EVER. A guy making that kind of money averaging 7.5 rebounds per game is pathetic. He's a mediocre at best defender, does nothing as far as rim protection. He's a very talented offensive player and gifted passer at the 4, but he put up good numbers on a mediocre team. He's not lifting anyone anywhere and his contract will sink anyone who expects him to.

I do not watch him closely enough to argue with you on this one, I am just not sure exactly where you are coming from on this. It is true that Jerry West dealt him. Do you know why? Quick rebuild with younger players is what I thought.

Yes. Because he saw his play start to decline and his contract would choke a hippo and he couldn't build a contender around him.

Why you think West would trade for a guy on the wrong side of 30 who made minimal impact on Detroit is beyond me.

Would he help the Suns? Yes. Without a doubt. He'd help us be a 40-50 win team... but his contract would ensure that's exactly where they'd stay. If you're trying to build a title contender and you're a young team, trading for a blake griffin is exactly the way to raise your floor but completely limit your ceiling at the same time... in other words, a move Sarver would absolutely make.

 

[elindholm]

I think Griffin is a poor fit, but his contract isn't the issue. Sure, he's paid too much, but he has only three years left. The Suns will be lucky to make the playoffs in 2021-22, never mind contend, so there's nothing wrong with building a 50-win roster in the short term.

The summer of 2022 is when the Suns will have to extend Ayton (and Bridges, if he's still around), so that's the date to keep an eye on. Before then, it doesn't really matter how much money they spend on whom.

I'm down on Griffin because he can't stay healthy, has a bad attitude, and doesn't help his team win. But I'm not bothered by his contract.

 

[BC867]

Would he help the Suns? Yes. Without a doubt. He'd help us be a 40-50 win team... but his contract would ensure that's exactly where they'd stay. If you're trying to build a title contender and you're a young team, trading for a blake griffin is exactly the way to raise your floor but completely limit your ceiling at the same time... in other words, a move Sarver would absolutely make.

We have to crawl before we can walk. And walk before we can run.

I would love to see the Suns be a title contender but, given a half
century of history, I would staff to become a strong playoff team
before staffing for title contention.

It would be much easier to achieve the former than the latter.

 

[JCSunsfan]

How is this possible when he just had his lowest rebounding year EVER. A guy making that kind of money averaging 7.5 rebounds per game is pathetic. He's a mediocre at best defender, does nothing as far as rim protection. He's a very talented offensive player and gifted passer at the 4, but he put up good numbers on a mediocre team. He's not lifting anyone anywhere and his contract will sink anyone who expects him to.



Yes. Because he saw his play start to decline and his contract would choke a hippo and he couldn't build a contender around him.

Why you think West would trade for a guy on the wrong side of 30 who made minimal impact on Detroit is beyond me.

Would he help the Suns? Yes. Without a doubt. He'd help us be a 40-50 win team... but his contract would ensure that's exactly where they'd stay. If you're trying to build a title contender and you're a young team, trading for a blake griffin is exactly the way to raise your floor but completely limit your ceiling at the same time... in other words, a move Sarver would absolutely make.

He IS playing next to Drummond, who gets 22.5 rebounds per 100 possessions on a team that outrebounds its opponents. Kinda think Blake would have to steal boards from Drummond to get more.

Health would be an issue.

I am curious about ELindhom's bad attitude gripe. The Pistons went 1-7 when he did not play and 39 and 36 when he did play. He seems like he helps his team win. I am not sold on him by any means, but I am not sure I am buying all the criticism.

 

[Johninromania]

My cousin is a psychiatrist in San Fran. He is a red-hot Giants fan, but couldn't care less about the Warriers across the Bay.

They have hardly been a strong Bay Area team. I don't understand why they didn't move them to San Francisco a long time ago.

Yeah, great baseball town. Not so great football and basketball town. The Phoenix market is much more of a basketball town. It took years and years of basketball misery to dampen the enthusiasm for the Suns in this town. We will rise again. The Suns are the only team in town that the natives grew up with and they have a speacial place in our hearts for that reason.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes. Because he saw his play start to decline and his contract would choke a hippo and he couldn't build a contender around him.

Why you think West would trade for a guy on the wrong side of 30 who made minimal impact on Detroit is beyond me.

Would he help the Suns? Yes. Without a doubt. He'd help us be a 40-50 win team... but his contract would ensure that's exactly where they'd stay. If you're trying to build a title contender and you're a young team, trading for a blake griffin is exactly the way to raise your floor but completely limit your ceiling at the same time... in other words, a move Sarver would absolutely make.

Blake's injury history scares me, I'm really iffy on the idea of trading for him. But in regards to being stuck as a 40-50 win team, I think it is far easier to make the leap to contention if we're already a playoff team. Creating cap space isn't that difficult and if in 2 years we were a 50 win team with this young core and a massive expiring contract to work with, we'd be in pretty damn good shape.

Not sure if Blake is the guy to get us there, but I'm not turning down a star caliber player just because they've a fat 2 or 3 year contract. If there is someone who is a fit and won't cost us a ton of assets (because the player is on a fat contract) we should be open to it.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Health is a reasonable concern but he was pretty healthy last year, and the sun's are supposed to have one of the best medical staffs so it wouldn't scare me too much , his contract as some one above pointed out expires before Ayton / bridges is up so it's not really an issue. He can turn them into a playoff team that's actually a free agent destination again which would be a massive step forward

 

[elindholm]

Griffin has missed 99 games over the past four seasons.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Interesting response here on Blake. Some opposed and some maybe. No one really enthusiastic.

I guess my reservation has to do with Saric. Blake is the star player but I am really intrigued by the idea that Saric could make Ayton a better player. I am not sure Blake would elevate Aytons game. We really need to see this team play some before we can really know what the next piece should be.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah, great baseball town. Not so great football and basketball town. The Phoenix market is much more of a basketball town. It took years and years of basketball misery to dampen the enthusiasm for the Suns in this town. We will rise again. The Suns are the only team in town that the natives grew up with and they have a speacial place in our hearts for that reason.

The Cardinals have very much eclipsed the Suns. All it took was a few back-to-back winning seasons and a Super Bowl trip. When I visit Phoenix now, I see Cardinals stuff everywhere.

The Suns have a shot at being a strong #2 though, but the Cardinals will be the team from now on out.

 

[devilalum]

Yeah, great baseball town. Not so great football and basketball town. The Phoenix market is much more of a basketball town. It took years and years of basketball misery to dampen the enthusiasm for the Suns in this town. We will rise again. The Suns are the only team in town that the natives grew up with and they have a speacial place in our hearts for that reason.

When Sarver took over the Suns were the 2nd in all time winning percentage. Now they are 7th.

In all 3 major sports there are franchises that always seem to be pretty good and others that rarely do well. I can think of teams that have moved from being perennial losers to respectability but I can't think of another franchise that has been driven into the ground like the Suns.

 

[Folster]

Griffin has missed 99 games over the past four seasons.

To be fair, that 35 game season at the front of the sample size really depresses the numbers. However, he had surgery again on his knee in April after missing games down the stretch and into the playoffs.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Cardinals have very much eclipsed the Suns. All it took was a few back-to-back winning seasons and a Super Bowl trip. When I visit Phoenix now, I see Cardinals stuff everywhere.

The Suns have a shot at being a strong #2 though, but the Cardinals will be the team from now on out.

I think you are right about the Cardinals eclipsing the Suns but I still remember the greeting Charles Barkley received at the airport when the Suns traded for him.

IMO, there are a lot of latent Suns fans waiting for a reason to rise.

 

[Johninromania]

I think you are right about the Cardinals eclipsing the Suns but I still remember the greeting Charles Barkley received at the airport when the Suns traded for him.

IMO, there are a lot of latent Suns fans waiting for a reason to rise.

Exactly, this franchise hasn’t given the fan base much to cheer for. If they actually fielded even a so-so team you would see such a surge in open suns support. I don’t think the NBA can compete with the NFL in any market anymore. Football without a doubt is America’s darling.