trade proposal

[hcsilla]

If you want to remove both Q and Marion from the lineup

Ratliff
Anderson

for

Q
Marion

You simply forgot to add #3 to that deal.

 

[coloradosun]

You simply forgot to add #3 to that deal.

Thanks, I forgot.

 

[coloradosun]

If you want to remove both Q and Marion from the lineup

There's a difference between removing someone from the starting lineup and removing him from the team. As I stated in another thread, if the Suns are going to deal away two players from their starting five, they'd better get something amazing in return. Ratliff and Anderson ain't amazing.

Please don't hijack this thread with more idiotic dump-Richardson proposals. If you think this thread is idiotic, that's fine, but at least allow it to stay on topic.

I'm outta here.

 

[fordronken]

I really hate the "don't trade within your division" mentality. Look what happened to the Lakers' "don't trade Shaq to the Western Conference". So, now what? Shaq is doing well and the Lakers suck. If I were a Laker fan, I'd rather make the playoffs and worry about facing Shaq then miss the playoffs and not give a crap.

 

[elindholm]

I really hate the "don't trade within your division" mentality.

I think it's much more prevalent among fans and analysts than among GMs anyway. It's a bit different in MLB, where you really do play teams in your own division a lot more frequently.

 

[JPlay]

I'm still not sure that Skinner is a starting quality bigman.

That's valid, but I'm not sure that Richardson is a starting quality SF.

Obviously Stojakovic is a huge upgrade over Richardson in the starting lineup. So the question is whether Skinner offers enough of a defensive upgrade, along with the added depth, to offset the loss of Marion.

What? I can't believe you are questioning whether Richardson is a starting quality SF. Did you watch the entire season. Did you see him hitting multiple 3s and putting the dagger in teams. Do you recall him making clutch shots, getting putbacks and rebounds, and taking charges. Richardson held his own with the rest of the team quite well and still managed to avg 14.9 points/game while grabbing 6 boards per game. It's not his fault D'Antoni has him out of position.

 

[elindholm]

Did you see him hitting multiple 3s and putting the dagger in teams. Do you recall him making clutch shots, getting putbacks and rebounds, and taking charges. Richardson held his own with the rest of the team quite well and still managed to avg 14.9 points/game while grabbing 6 boards per game.

Yes, he did a fine job. Of course, for every clutch shot he hit, he missed two earlier in the game, but in general he was an asset this season.

It's not his fault D'Antoni has him out of position.

No, it's not, and I'm not blaming Richardson. But if the team keeps Johnson, Richardson can't start at his proper position. So move him to the bench, where he'll still be plenty effective, and bring in someone who makes the lineup more solid defensively.

I'm not down on Richardson. He was asked to do more than he's capable of, and he put forth a solid effort. Moving someone to the bench isn't giving up on them, especially when the bench obviously needs help. Besides, if Richardson proves to be indispensible at crunch time, he can always be on the floor at the ends of games.

 

[Chaplin]

Eric, did you watch Peja at all this season? He is so godawfully inconsistent it's not even funny. Why did they trade Webber and not Peja? Because Peja isn't worth Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner and Corliss Williamson. That's pretty sad.

I like Peja, when he's on, he's really on. But you can say the same for Q--except that Q is a much better defender, rebounder and low-post player--and that's just Q, Marion is light years better in that regard.

Brian Skinner has no business starting on an NBA team. None.

 

[elindholm]

Eric, did you watch Peja at all this season? He is so godawfully inconsistent it's not even funny. Why did they trade Webber and not Peja? Because Peja isn't worth Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner and Corliss Williamson. That's pretty sad.

I watched some Kings games this season, but not too many. I don't know how "inconsistent" Stojakovic can be when he shoots better than 40% from three-point range, even in a relative off year. Among active players with at least 2500 attempts, Stojakovic is fourth in career 3FG%, behind only Wes Person, Brent Barry, and Allan Houston. I'll take that kind of inconsistency any day. If Richardson shot 40% from behind the arc over a ten-game stretch, we'd all be saying he was on fire.

Stojakovic appears inconsistent only when one expects him to be a first- or second-option threat on a regular basis. The same can be said about Marion.

except that Q is a much better defender, rebounder and low-post player

Since the Suns aren't in a position to take advantage of Richardson's celebrated low-post game, it's not much of an advantage. And remember, he'd still on the team. I agree that Richardson is a better defender and rebounder.

Brian Skinner has no business starting on an NBA team. None.

I disagree, but that's okay.

 

[cepstrum]

Eric, did you watch Peja at all this season? He is so godawfully inconsistent it's not even funny. Why did they trade Webber and not Peja? Because Peja isn't worth Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner and Corliss Williamson. That's pretty sad.

That is not true. They traded webber because of his contract. There are plenty of teams willing to give up a lot more than those three guys for peja. Im certainly not saying that he is worth marion though.

Brian Skinner has no business starting on an NBA team. None.

Im not exactly sure if that is true. I think he could start on the suns. The guy averaged 8 pts and 9 boards a game starting for the kings in only 27 minutes. In addition, he shot over 55% for a game. This was for a span of 25 games. I would kill to have a big man that could do that on the suns.

 

[Chaplin]

That is not true. They traded webber because of his contract. There are plenty of teams willing to give up a lot more than those three guys for peja. Im certainly not saying that he is worth marion though.

I will concede your point that the contract was an issue, but where in the world is your evidence that Peja would get the Kings more than that?

 

[elindholm]

Where's your evidence that he wouldn't? We're all just speculating, and apparently we have a disagreement on Stojakovic's value.

 

[Chaplin]

Where's your evidence that he wouldn't? We're all just speculating, and apparently we have a disagreement on Stojakovic's value.

Not that this is the end-all, but I have a good friend who is a fan of the Kings like we are fans for the Suns, and he repeatedly told me that Peja just wouldn't get them very much. For what it's worth, he also hoped that Peja would get traded this summer because of his inconsistency over the past couple years.

 

[HooverDam]

Ive said it once, Ill say it a thousand times: Keep the starting 5 together, build around them!!!

When teams are up and coming and beginning to gel, you dont go scrapping them. Thats something thats always plagued the Suns front office. Lets not throw out the car cause it finished 4th, lets retool, and tweak the minor parts.

 

[elindholm]

Not that this is the end-all, but I have a good friend who is a fan of the Kings like we are fans for the Suns, and he repeatedly told me that Peja just wouldn't get them very much. For what it's worth, he also hoped that Peja would get traded this summer because of his inconsistency over the past couple years.

Hmm, well it's always interesting to hear what fans of other teams think, so that's good to know.

Still, Stojakovic's inconsistency "over the past couple years"? He was an MVP candidate the year before last ('03-'04), on amazing numbers. He put up one of the greatest shooting seasons in league history. Many on this board, at that time, felt that the Suns would be better off if Marion could be swapped for Stojakovic straight up, but that there was no way the Kings would agree to it (even if the salary issue could be worked out).

It sounds like your friend has either unrealistically high expectations for Stojakovic, or a short memory.

 

[PhxGametime]

I'd only be interested if the Kings had a Pick around the 12-17 area, to nab 1 of Marion replacements but IMO Marion makes the skillball team go and unless the team can find a replacement (not that I really want them too, Marion is my favorite player but Suns before players) I wouldn't do this Trade. If the Trade has Picks involved and for some reason, the Suns Draft a replacement at #21 then I might make a call - with #23 in deal.

In reality, I wouldn't want the team to Trade any of the starters but this is a messageboard and I do believe it was me and slinslin that started the whole Trade Proposal Threads

 

[lancelet's cousin]

Just from lurking on Kings boards I would have to say that Peja trade proposals are quite common. Kind of unfair if you ask me. He is a terrific spot-up shooter but doesn't play D and can't create off the dribble. They should have expected that the Webber trade+B. Miller's injury would hurt him this year. His value is too low right now for Petrie to trade IMO. And Petrie is one skilled FA trader.


Normally I am interested in offseason trade ideas but not this year.
At least not anything involving our top 4

 

[Chaplin]

Not that this is the end-all, but I have a good friend who is a fan of the Kings like we are fans for the Suns, and he repeatedly told me that Peja just wouldn't get them very much. For what it's worth, he also hoped that Peja would get traded this summer because of his inconsistency over the past couple years.

Hmm, well it's always interesting to hear what fans of other teams think, so that's good to know.

Still, Stojakovic's inconsistency "over the past couple years"? He was an MVP candidate the year before last ('03-'04), on amazing numbers. He put up one of the greatest shooting seasons in league history. Many on this board, at that time, felt that the Suns would be better off if Marion could be swapped for Stojakovic straight up, but that there was no way the Kings would agree to it (even if the salary issue could be worked out).

It sounds like your friend has either unrealistically high expectations for Stojakovic, or a short memory.

The problem is that Stojakovic, while a good shooter (or was a good shooter), is not the kind of player to build around. When it comes to the Suns, however, a whole new batch of problems comes up--specifically around his rebounding, defense and inconsistency. You don't replace our best rebounder and at least 2nd best defender with a guy that can't defend or rebound. And that's the 2 main problems that we have! Brian Skinner isn't going to replace that.

 

[elindholm]

The problem is that Stojakovic, while a good shooter (or was a good shooter)

?? He put up good shooting numbers last season, and they didn't get any worse as the season progressed. He is still a good shooter, but he may not approach his unwordly levels of '03-'04 again, just as Nash is unlikely to approach the magical level he found in the Mavericks playoff series, when he was the best player the league has seen in five years.

is not the kind of player to build around.

I agree. That's why, if the Kings decide they want or need to trade him, they know they can't get a "franchise player" in return.

You don't replace our best rebounder and at least 2nd best defender with a guy that can't defend or rebound.

But Stojakovic wouldn't be replacing Marion. Skinner would be replacing Marion (which, in terms of defense and rebounding, isn't a big drop-off, even though obviously it's a big sacrifice offensively), Stojakovic would be replacing Richardson (which is a big upgrade in my opinion), and Richardson would be replacing, well, nobody -- he'd be, in some sense, a net adddition (which is clearly an improvement).

And that's the 2 main problems that we have! Brian Skinner isn't going to replace that.

Not by himself.

Basically your argument is that the trade is bad because neither Stojakovic nor Skinner, by himself, is as good as Marion. Well, that's true. But together, would they contribute as much to the team as Marion does, especially when you consider the added depth? I think they could.

Remember that, if he stays with the Suns, Marion's rebounding numbers are almost guaranteed to go down next season, because Stoudemire is going to start being more of a force on the boards. There are only so many rebounds to go around, and many of Marion's have been of the "concession" variety anyway.

The main point of rebounding isn't so much how many you get, but how many you prevent your opponents from getting. Frankly, Marion isn't very good in that department, because he doesn't box out and is so undersized for his position. Obviously Stojakovic is even worse, but Skinner would likely be an improvement.

 

[Chaplin]

I think no, Peja and Skinner together are not the equal of Shawn Marion.

But then again, as cheesebeef says, I'm a Marion homer, so obviously my opinion means absolutely nothing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think no, Peja and Skinner together are not the equal of Shawn Marion.

But then again, as cheesebeef says, I'm a Marion homer, so obviously my opinion means absolutely nothing.

sheesh - that was necessary. Nothing like trying to start a flame war in a thread where I've basically said nothing, right Chap! Issues, dude. Issues.

That being said - Marion for Peja and Skinner is a lateral move - wouldn't do it.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I was against trading Marion for Peja 2 summers ago. I was against trading Marion for Peja this past summer. I am still against it.

If we are going to move Marion, I would want a lot more than that package.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Eric, did you watch Peja at all this season? He is so godawfully inconsistent it's not even funny. Why did they trade Webber and not Peja? Because Peja isn't worth Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner and Corliss Williamson. That's pretty sad.

I like Peja, when he's on, he's really on. But you can say the same for Q--except that Q is a much better defender, rebounder and low-post player--and that's just Q, Marion is light years better in that regard.

Brian Skinner has no business starting on an NBA team. None.

My friend is a Die hard kings fan and I get thr Kings channel on my Dish so I watched almost every King game. 2 Pejas are not worth 1 Marion, way inconsistent and he looked scared and lost this season. Skinner though really liked him, was a real good defender off the bench. He would come in and get back swats and rebounds down the stretch. I would be pumped if the Suns ever landed the guy, he would do dirty kinda like Hunter for the Suns, but unlike Hunter Skinner wouls close up lanes and use his body allot more. Skinner would do well with the Suns, he's a quick tempo guy.

But a guy who would fit the Suns tempo great is Maurice Evans, that guy can jump like crazy and is another quick tempo guy, I'd love seeing him in Suns uniform.

 

[fordronken]

My friend is a Die hard kings fan and I get thr Kings channel on my Dish so I watched almost every King game. 2 Pejas are not worth 1 Marion, way inconsistent and he looked scared and lost this season. Skinner though really liked him, was a real good defender off the bench. He would come in and get back swats and rebounds down the stretch. I would be pumped if the Suns ever landed the guy, he would do dirty kinda like Hunter for the Suns, but unlike Hunter Skinner wouls close up lanes and use his body allot more. Skinner would do well with the Suns, he's a quick tempo guy.

But a guy who would fit the Suns tempo great is Maurice Evans, that guy can jump like crazy and is another quick tempo guy, I'd love seeing him in Suns uniform.

I think that if Marion had played on the Kings this season instead of Peja, he would have looked a little lost too. And if Peja were on the Suns he'd have been an all-star. I'm not one to be able to decide who would be a better fit, but Peja would absolutely play well, at least on the offensive end, with this team. Can you imagine Joe, Nash and Peja on the perimeter with Amare inside?

 

[elindholm]

Can you imagine Joe, Nash and Peja on the perimeter with Amare inside?

Yes.