Training camp scrimmage

[3rdside]

In my opinion, that should be a condition of the contract. You can play for the Suns or you can play for the national team. You cannot do both.



Being the best player doesn't do anyone any good if you are burned out half way through a season.

Where to begin with this?! Wrong (inarguably) on so many levels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Errntknght]

I just watched it a second time so it appears it will play whenever you want.

I don't disagree with any of the other people's observations but I have few thoughts.

I liked IT handling the ball and he meshed well with both Bledsoe and Dragic - in fact, he seemed to set up plays for them better than they do for each other. He also did a good job making himself available when they got into a jam... not to mention that he was deadly in midrange.
Goodwin looked good on defense, getting his hands on lots of balls and blocking shots. Kept down in his stance well, too. Put him with Bled and PJ and the Suns would have a really strong defense at 1,2,3 and they'd run the floor great, too. Even though his jump shot is still crappy he's going to be hard to keep off the floor.
The biggest surprise was Shavlik... he was all over the floor doing good things. Solid D and contesting shots in the paint, grabbing rebounds and shooting well - he even canned two 3's like he knew what he was doing. Took a charge. Nine years he's been bouncing around the league and logged just over 1000 minutes total. If he can play like that consistently he might well double his total in one year - and I'm not counting on him being a 3pt threat. He's 30 years old... talk about a late bloomer! Well, assuming he does blossom.

The fire power on this team is amazing - Marcus, Tolliver, Dragic, Green, Bledsoe, IT shooting 3's, 4 guards that can and will attack the rim plus terrific midrange shooting from Markieff, TJ, IT, Dragic and Bledsoe (he appears significantly improved.) Fastbreaks on top of that. Plumlee and Len will be getting lots of putbacks because their men will be helping their teammates. If Hornacek can keep it all humming this team could stun the whole league right out of the gate - and they should improve a fair amount as the season goes on!

Defensively, the team was a smidgen above average last year, believe it or not, but Frye was a significant factor so we'll need Plumlee, Len, Randolph and Tolliver to make up for the loss. It seems likely at this point that they will, without expecting a whole lot from Len. I still think we could be a considerably better defensive team by applying constant pressure on opponents guards but there's been no sign that Jeff is contemplating that.

I realize I'm euphoric at this point but I think the teams ceiling is now 64 wins... up 10 from just a few days ago. I'd like to place a bet that we make the playoffs... what kind odds would one get on that - should be 2-1 since Vegas is pegging us at 42.5 wins in the WC. Does anyone know if our local casinos make book on the NBA?

 

[sunsfan88]

Isaiah Thomas was the one that looked most impressive to me today.

Marcus Thomas played well but he still takes contested shots. He takes contested shots in reg games and he makes it on days that he's on and then bricks them all when he's off.

He needs to learn to take better open shots.

He doesn't how to pass the ball either. Same with Green and Tucker.

 

[Mainstreet]

For those of you who want to watch it, it comes to life at the 08:26 mark. Here we are in the 21st Century and the age of technology seems to be regressing.

Unfortunately, I don't have an hour and three-quarters to watch it tonight.

Thanks BC867. Now I will need to find the time to watch it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just watched it a second time so it appears it will play whenever you want.

I don't disagree with any of the other people's observations but I have few thoughts.

I liked IT handling the ball and he meshed well with both Bledsoe and Dragic - in fact, he seemed to set up plays for them better than they do for each other. He also did a good job making himself available when they got into a jam... not to mention that he was deadly in midrange.
Goodwin looked good on defense, getting his hands on lots of balls and blocking shots. Kept down in his stance well, too. Put him with Bled and PJ and the Suns would have a really strong defense at 1,2,3 and they'd run the floor great, too. Even though his jump shot is still crappy he's going to be hard to keep off the floor.
The biggest surprise was Shavlik... he was all over the floor doing good things. Solid D and contesting shots in the paint, grabbing rebounds and shooting well - he even canned two 3's like he knew what he was doing. Took a charge. Nine years he's been bouncing around the league and logged just over 1000 minutes total. If he can play like that consistently he might well double his total in one year - and I'm not counting on him being a 3pt threat. He's 30 years old... talk about a late bloomer! Well, assuming he does blossom.

The fire power on this team is amazing - Marcus, Tolliver, Dragic, Green, Bledsoe, IT shooting 3's, 4 guards that can and will attack the rim plus terrific midrange shooting from Markieff, TJ, IT, Dragic and Bledsoe (he appears significantly improved.) Fastbreaks on top of that. Plumlee and Len will be getting lots of putbacks because their men will be helping their teammates. If Hornacek can keep it all humming this team could stun the whole league right out of the gate - and they should improve a fair amount as the season goes on!

Defensively, the team was a smidgen above average last year, believe it or not, but Frye was a significant factor so we'll need Plumlee, Len, Randolph and Tolliver to make up for the loss. It seems likely at this point that they will, without expecting a whole lot from Len. I still think we could be a considerably better defensive team by applying constant pressure on opponents guards but there's been no sign that Jeff is contemplating that.

I realize I'm euphoric at this point but I think the teams ceiling is now 64 wins... up 10 from just a few days ago. I'd like to place a bet that we make the playoffs... what kind odds would one get on that - should be 2-1 since Vegas is pegging us at 42.5 wins in the WC. Does anyone know if our local casinos make book on the NBA?

64 WINS?!?!

Pass that J this way Knight, because that's some GREAT ganja!

 

[AzStevenCal]

64 WINS?!?!

Pass that J this way Knight, because that's some GREAT ganja!

If we stay healthy, I'll be surprised if we don't at least win into the mid 50's. 64 is a little high but keep in mind, he called it our ceiling. I think it's a reasonable number for our ceiling and I'd put our floor around 50, again, assuming average health.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I liked IT handling the ball and he meshed well with both Bledsoe and Dragic - in fact, he seemed to set up plays for them better than they do for each other. He also did a good job making himself available when they got into a jam... not to mention that he was deadly in midrange.

Isaiah Thomas was the one that looked most impressive to me today.

I am trying to find peace with the 3-Lead Point Guard concept. The depth is fine (especially with Goran continuing to play for his National team), but the concept of two Point Guards on the floor at all times certainly will take getting accustomed to.

Especially when two of the three are 6'1" and 5'9" and are going up against taller Point Guards. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

That is assuming that Bledsoe can stay healthy for entire seasons. If not, IT will indeed be the insurance to step into the situation of two Lead Point Guards at the least. And it will determine how much of an offer the Suns make to Goran in a year.

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope the live stream of the scrimmage played better than the replay. Watching the replay of the first half was painful after the video started buffering every few seconds about mid-way into the first half.

Nothing much to add but Randolph may fit the Suns better than I thought after watching him play last season. He played like a veteran should in the scrimmage. Also, if Goodwin could get starter minutes somewhere, he would develop into a star. Len is still learning the game of basketball. He has all the tools but he is still too mechanical. I'm wondering if this can change with playing time. I like what I saw of Plumlee. The Suns have depth, almost too much. This will be a challenge for Hornacek to figure out who gets the minutes while still developing the roster.

 

[Chaplin]

This "RISE Network" gimmick is a nice progression over what they've done in the past, but the execution is bordering on excruciating. From microphones not working to hosts not understanding how to use a microphone to Espo's horrible delivery, this is a big fail. A little depressing since Suns.com has consistently been among the best 3 or 4 NBA websites.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we stay healthy, I'll be surprised if we don't at least win into the mid 50's. 64 is a little high but keep in mind, he called it our ceiling. I think it's a reasonable number for our ceiling and I'd put our floor around 50, again, assuming average health.

Steve

floor at 50? at least 55 wins? i think that's all a little too high. 64 is better then the Spurs last year. 64 is better then ANY Suns team in history. That's just not very realistic, IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

This "RISE Network" gimmick is a nice progression over what they've done in the past, but the execution is bordering on excruciating. From microphones not working to hosts not understanding how to use a microphone to Espo's horrible delivery, this is a big fail. A little depressing since Suns.com has consistently been among the best 3 or 4 NBA websites.

I believe things will only get better or at least this is my hope. I guess the Rise Network is going to carry Wednesday's preseason game via internet. This is a huge step forward in coverage from years past.

Wow. Zoran can dance.

 

[AzStevenCal]

floor at 50? at least 55 wins? i think that's all a little too high. 64 is better then the Spurs last year. 64 is better then ANY Suns team in history. That's just not very realistic, IMO.

If the loss of Frye is as minimal as so many of the posters here have insisted, I think we're going to have one of our best years ever. And even if we feel his loss at times, we look to be much improved from the 48 win team of last season. I don't buy the "teams will be ready for us this year" line because I don't think teams are that bad at scouting and preparation to have gone a whole season unprepared for us last year.

I see us greatly improved at the guard positions, mildly improved at the small forward spot, mildly improved at the power forward spot and noticeably improved at the center spot. Add in good health and I'm fine with a 50 - 64 win range. Teams rarely hit their ceiling but I think ours is in reach if all our "ifs" come up big. And, IMO, the only way we hit our floor is if injuries set us back.

The Vegas experts and most of the shows I've watched or listened to all seem to fall more in line with your thinking. I've tried my best to rein in my personal bias and understand why this is the general train of thought but frankly, I just can't get there. When the hopes for "my team" really start to build I tend to voice a different view simply because unrealistic expectations can be a killer. But I can't do that here because no one is close to overrating this team yet.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

I am trying to find peace with the 3-Lead Point Guard concept. The depth is fine (especially with Goran continuing to play for his National team), but the concept of two Point Guards on the floor at all times certainly will take getting accustomed to.

Especially when two of the three are 6'1" and 5'9" and are going up against taller Point Guards. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

That is assuming that Bledsoe can stay healthy for entire seasons. If not, IT will indeed be the insurance to step into the situation of two Lead Point Guards at the least. And it will determine how much of an offer the Suns make to Goran in a year.

After watching the scrimmage I'm okay with the concept of three point guards but I think it would be foolish to put 2 on the floor all the time. You have to keep your other guards sharp because there are going to be times when one of them is out. There will also be times when you want stronger defense. If two of them were on the floor 3/4 of the time that would work out neatly - each of them gets twelve minutes with each of the other two and 4 minutes solo - I'm talking on average, of course. That puts them at 28 minutes per game instead of 32. That keeps them fresh for the playoffs, and if they prove to be our 3 best duo's they could up their minutes a bit so we are even better in the playoffs - its always nice to be able to step up your game then.

The leaves 12 min/game for other guards but Green, Goodwin and Zoran can get bits of time at SF. But one thing I'd do for sure is give PJ some time at SG because he will likely be the prime choice when we want to toughen up our backcourt D. He needs to keep his hand in and the PGs need to be used to playing with him. Obviously, there is going to be a squeeze and I'd vote for defense being the principal determinent of who gets squeezed the least. Hopefully, it will be Goodwin among the guards.

If the opponents go small enough that TJ, PJ, & Marcus can slide up to PF some of the time that will ease the crunch but I don't really expect it. Oh, they'll give it a shot but I don't think they'll like the result.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the loss of Frye is as minimal as so many of the posters here have insisted, I think we're going to have one of our best years ever. And even if we feel his loss at times, we look to be much improved from the 48 win team of last season. I don't buy the "teams will be ready for us this year" line because I don't think teams are that bad at scouting and preparation to have gone a whole season unprepared for us last year.

I see us greatly improved at the guard positions, mildly improved at the small forward spot, mildly improved at the power forward spot and noticeably improved at the center spot. Add in good health and I'm fine with a 50 - 64 win range. Teams rarely hit their ceiling but I think ours is in reach if all our "ifs" come up big. And, IMO, the only way we hit our floor is if injuries set us back.

The Vegas experts and most of the shows I've watched or listened to all seem to fall more in line with your thinking. I've tried my best to rein in my personal bias and understand why this is the general train of thought but frankly, I just can't get there. When the hopes for "my team" really start to build I tend to voice a different view simply because unrealistic expectations can be a killer. But I can't do that here because no one is close to overrating this team yet.

Steve

I see no reason to think otherwise. Barring injury, the Suns should win 50+ games this upcoming season. The Suns often beat teams with depth last season. They are deeper with talent than ever. IT was a huge addition to this depth.

 

[sunsfan88]

This "RISE Network" gimmick is a nice progression over what they've done in the past, but the execution is bordering on excruciating. From microphones not working to hosts not understanding how to use a microphone to Espo's horrible delivery, this is a big fail. A little depressing since Suns.com has consistently been among the best 3 or 4 NBA websites.

ESPO is awful.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wow. People really drinking the koolaid in here. I predict 45-50 wins. No taking people by surprise this year, and the Frye factor.

And there are always injuries.

 

[SirStefan32]

I appreciate good homerism as much as the next guy, but at some point, you just have to stop and stay in the realm of "possible."
64 wins? That's more than the 92/93 team.

 

[Errntknght]

floor at 50? at least 55 wins? i think that's all a little too high. 64 is better then the Spurs last year. 64 is better then ANY Suns team in history. That's just not very realistic, IMO.

I said I was euphoric...

The Spurs didn't try to win as many games as they could last year... Pops was getting them ready to peak in the playoffs and the cunning old devil did just that. Hornacek is going to be too busy trying to come up with ways get minutes for everyone to think in those terms.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wow. People really drinking the koolaid in here. I predict 45-50 wins. No taking people by surprise this year, and the Frye factor.

And there are always injuries.

I never bought the surprise theory especially after the first few games are scouted and I am one that never thought that Frye couldn't be replaced. Maybe I will be shocked, however, I was glad that Frye opted out of his contract.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I appreciate good homerism as much as the next guy, but at some point, you just have to stop and stay in the realm of "possible."
64 wins? That's more than the 92/93 team.

You do get that no one is predicting 64 wins right? It's just been offered as the maximum if everyone played to their expected potential and injuries weren't a factor and so on. Teams and players rarely reach their ceiling and it's likely we won't either. But to put it in perspective, I think, assuming we stay reasonably healthy, that we have a better chance of hitting our ceiling than we do of dropping below the Vegas win total. IOW, I think we'll come closer to 64 wins than we will to 42 wins.

Steve

 

[BC867]

You do get that no one is predicting 64 wins right? It's just been offered as the maximum if everyone played to their expected potential and injuries weren't a factor and so on. Teams and players rarely reach their ceiling and it's likely we won't either. But to put it in perspective, I think, assuming we stay reasonably healthy, that we have a better chance of hitting our ceiling than we do of dropping below the Vegas win total. IOW, I think we'll come closer to 64 wins than we will to 42 wins.

Steve

That comes out to 54. 'Entirely possible, even if one of our 3 Point Guards doesn't live up to expectations, gets injured or wears down. And if our Center tandem steps it up from last year. And if Jeff can keep the players happy and ready.

Somewhere, many months from now, we'll have to look at how competitive we can expect that 54-win team to be under playoff conditions.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That comes out to 54. 'Entirely possible, even if one of our 3 Point Guards doesn't live up to expectations, gets injured or wears down. And if our Center tandem steps it up from last year. And if Jeff can keep the players happy and ready.

Somewhere, many months from now, we'll have to look at how competitive we can expect that 54-win team to be under playoff conditions.

Well, just guessing (and several months earlier than your suggestion) but that would probably have us facing off with a team roughly our equal. We'd probably lose a little of our advantage in the postseason given the way refs call the playoffs. It's not as bad as it was 5 or 10 years ago but the postseason still tends to reward defense and half court play. So, I'd say we'd likely be a first or second round exit. Considering where we are in our rebuild, I think that would be a very successful campaign.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

I hope the live stream of the scrimmage played better than the replay. Watching the replay of the first half was painful after the video started buffering every few seconds about mid-way into the first half.

That was not my experience. It was smooth for me. But yes, the volume was messed up (way quiet!). For one of the camp video interviews with EJ, the mic was off and you could barely hear what he said.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That was not my experience. It was smooth for me. But yes, the volume was messed up (way quiet!). For one of the camp video interviews with EJ, the mic was off and you could barely hear what he said.

Yeah, initially I tried watching it on my iPad but the volume was just too weak. So I used Airplay and sent it to my Apple TV/big screen and was able to boost the volume to a comfortable level.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

You do get that no one is predicting 64 wins right? It's just been offered as the maximum if everyone played to their expected potential and injuries weren't a factor and so on.

Then why not say that their ceiling is 82 wins? Is 64 that much more realistic than 82?