Tuesday Morning Suns Thoughts

[Arizona's Finest]

Okay some random Suns thoughts I have been having:

• I have become obsessed with the upcoming NBA draft. It has gotten so bad that I just went to NBA.com, looked up the standings and then detailed “likely” wins for the teams like Milwaukee, Charlotte, and Seattle that could come between us and the pick. Does everyone else realize that we have a top 6 pick in the deepest draft in years? For a team that is historically good at drafting in the teens I am pretty excited about what we can do with 4 – 6. The way I understand it the 4 – 32 order goes based on record while only the top three are determined by lottery format. So best case scenario we pick # 4, worst case Atlanta wins the lottery and get Oden or Durant instantly making them an Eastern playoff team. It’s an exciting subplot to follow as the season winds down.

• As for who we would draft at that 4 – 6 spot. I have seen numerous mocks having us take Noah, with Yin (Chinese center gaining steam). In fact NBA draft net has us taking 3 CENTERS(!) as of today. I think that is ridiculous. Anyone who follows this team understands that we have no desire to have a center who would bog up our offense just to have size. Which is why a guy like Noah does make sense. I like Julian Wright as well as I think he has much higher potential than Noah. My only concern is was really Griffen making those picks or BC? Guess we will find out….

• If the Suns do not win it all this year I think it is safe to say that you can expect a BIG move to be made to get us over the top. That just seems like Sarver’s M.O. to me. And I think we should go after the biggest fish of them all – KG - if only to keep the Lakers away from him when he is ineveitably traded this off season. Do you make this deal?

Barbosa
Marion
Cleveland pick
Next years first rounder

For

Kevin Garnett

It seems like it work under CBA rules and I gotta think backcourt starved Minny loves the idea of getting a developing Barbosa to go along with a glue guy like Marion. And all of a sudden we have potentially the greatest frontline of all time with STAT, Diaw, KG and Noah and Thomas coming off the bench. That would be an end to all teams thinking the can outboard and out tough us. Plus we don’t lose any speed or passing. KG makes sense for this team more than any other player. And you know he wants to play with Nash

• As Gambo detailed in an article earlier I am NOT looking forward to playing the Lakers in the first round and would much prefer the Nuggets or even the Rockets. The Lakers will beat us up and I know everyone is at least a little concerned with Kobe. He is the one player who could win a first round series by himself….

• Diaw needs to come off the bench. Nuff said. In fact if I was D’antoni I would go to a traditional starting lineup for the playoffs of Nash, Bell, Marion, STAT, and KT to begin games and pulling Thomas depending on how effective he begins the game. It really doesn’t matter who starts the game but who finishes and plays the most minutes. I like what Thomas brings in terms of establishing the boards and interior defense and then what Diaw (Passing) and Barbosa (speed) bring off the bench…..

 

[CardNots]

Nice write-up. Good read.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Okay some random Suns thoughts I have been having:

Barbosa
Marion
Cleveland pick
Next years first rounder

For

Kevin Garnett

The problem with that is if we are going to lose Barbosa and don't draft/sign anyone who can at least play subpar backup PG that actually hurts us a LOT more than it helps us.

 

[Chaplin]

Barbosa, Marion and 2 picks is way too much for Kevin Garnett.

Also, regarding NBAdraft.net. We go through this every year--that site is simply a guide, it's best use is as an order of hype/skill for picks, NOT who we'd pick at those slots. They just put it there to show what the draft order is as of today.

So in reality, a normal drafting site that was doing mocks by need wouldn't set it up like that.

Good article other than those minor things.

 

[elindholm]

Good post. In my opinion, Barbosa is pretty much untouchable, even for Garnett. The value gap between Garnett and Marion isn't enough to justify giving up Barbosa.

I think a more likely trade is

Minnesota gets
Shawn Marion ($16.4 million in 2007-08, expires 2009)
Kurt Thomas ($8.1, 2008)
a pick or two, depending on where they fall
possible filler contract and cash for buyout (to cut down on luxury tax)

Phoenix gets
Kevin Garnett ($22.0, 2009)
Troy Hudson ($6.0, 2010)

The Suns don't particularly want Hudson, but he'd be of some use, and taking him off of the Wolves' hands sweetens the deal for them. Minnesota gets an expiring contract (which they want, as Thomas could be moved again later in the season for another talent upgrade) and young talent (which they also want).

I wouldn't want to see the Suns give up Thomas, but D'Antoni has apparently decided that he doesn't fit the system. My hunch is that he'll be either traded or bought out this summer, whether it's in a larger move or not.

In this proposal, Diaw becomes the third "big" behind Stoudemire and Garnett, and D'Antoni can put another speedster at SF.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Garnett would take two of Diaw, Barbosa, or Marion unless Ticket demands his way to Phoenix or else. There are a number of teams especially Chicago who will be interested that could come up with a much better package than Marion and filler.

I think it would be intelligent not to expect Garnett in a Suns uniform unless Sarver overrules D'Antoni who I do not think would give up more than one of his guys.

 

[elindholm]

There are a number of teams especially Chicago who will be interested that could come up with a much better package than Marion and filler.

That's true, but what are they waiting for? It seems like if the Bulls were seriously interested, they would have made a deal already.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

That's true, but what are they waiting for? It seems like if the Bulls were seriously interested, they would have made a deal already.

I think they want to see what this current nucleus can do first. No point in trading a surplus of youth if they're not on the verge of leaving and you can win a championship with it. That being said, they won't win a championship this year and the locals will be restless and many of their young guys will be a year closer to being unaffordable.

 

[Muggum]

I don't see us dealing Barbosa. He is proving himself to be the best value in the NBA with his low salary. And Sarver loves a value!

 

[boisesuns]

Good post. In my opinion, Barbosa is pretty much untouchable, even for Garnett. The value gap between Garnett and Marion isn't enough to justify giving up Barbosa.

I think a more likely trade is

Minnesota gets
Shawn Marion ($16.4 million in 2007-08, expires 2009)
Kurt Thomas ($8.1, 2008)
a pick or two, depending on where they fall
possible filler contract and cash for buyout (to cut down on luxury tax)

Phoenix gets
Kevin Garnett ($22.0, 2009)
Troy Hudson ($6.0, 2010)

The Suns don't particularly want Hudson, but he'd be of some use, and taking him off of the Wolves' hands sweetens the deal for them. Minnesota gets an expiring contract (which they want, as Thomas could be moved again later in the season for another talent upgrade) and young talent (which they also want).

I wouldn't want to see the Suns give up Thomas, but D'Antoni has apparently decided that he doesn't fit the system. My hunch is that he'll be either traded or bought out this summer, whether it's in a larger move or not.

In this proposal, Diaw becomes the third "big" behind Stoudemire and Garnett, and D'Antoni can put another speedster at SF.

I think hudson would be at least better than banks!

 

[Covert Rain]

Barbosa, Marion and 2 picks is way too much for Kevin Garnett.

Agreed. KG is not a spring chicken. Not to mention that KG is not even close to being worth a deal like that. You would replace Marion for KG (which have very similar stats) your most prolific bench player and possibly 2 picks to reload the franchise. KG is not MJ.

The value gap between Garnett and Marion isn't enough to justify giving up Barbosa.

Garnett would take two of Diaw, Barbosa, or Marion unless Ticket demands his way to Phoenix or else. There are a number of teams especially Chicago who will be interested that could come up with a much better package than Marion and filler.

I think it would be intelligent not to expect Garnett in a Suns uniform unless Sarver overrules D'Antoni who I do not think would give up more than one of his guys.

KG is not worth 2 Marions or 2 Barbosas. He's not even worth one Marion plus a Barbosa. KG is a great piece to a team that's close to winning a title. However, unless you plan on rebuilding your franchise around the guy, there is no way you could value someone like KG at his age worth something like that.

 

[boisesuns]

Good write up AZ. I think getting some more bigs and rebounders would do wonders for this team-as long as they can run. I think we need to Keep barbosa.

 

[Mainstreet]

Good read. For the fun of it, how about if we put Banks in your trade proposal instead of Barbosa. Banks actually might hold some trade value with Minnesota.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Garnett would take two of Diaw, Barbosa, or Marion unless Ticket demands his way to Phoenix or else. There are a number of teams especially Chicago who will be interested that could come up with a much better package than Marion and filler.

I think it would be intelligent not to expect Garnett in a Suns uniform unless Sarver overrules D'Antoni who I do not think would give up more than one of his guys.

I think Mao is the only one who has this correct. We might be overvaluing our talent a little bit. I LOVE Barbosa especially at what he makes - but there is no way the Twolves trade the best player in franchise history at a reletively productive age for Marion and filler. They would HAVE to get back a young talent and right now Barbosa is our most valuable commodity. Yeah it would hurt to lose the backcourt depth but this is KG we are talkign about. I think he would much prefer a trade to Phoenix than Chicago as we have shown signs of being much closer than Chicago has.

Lets say we go to the WCF and lose to the Mavs. Or worse lose to the Spurs in Round 2 (both very possible). I think Sarver assess's the team, says he gave this group its chance and then tries to put us over the top so the product does not become stale. At that point KG is the only player that makes sense and makes us legitimetly better than both Dallas and SA.

You also have to consider the packages LA and Chicago and Boston would offer.

LA

Bynum
Odom
Farmar

CHI

Thomas
Gordon
NY PICK?

Boston

Green
Jefferson
pick?

In order to beat these packages we have to give up a star (Marion) a young stud (Barbosa) and picks.....and IMO we have to keep him away from the Lakers at all costs

I think Sarver is much like Cuban that he is going to do what it takes. I don't think he minds the luxury tax as long as he is not paying top dollar for a semi finalist. If we don't at least get to the Finals this year - all hell could break loose.....

 

[Mainstreet]

Sooner or later the Suns will need to transform out of the Nash era... I hope it's much later. IMO, LB and Amare are the transition to the future. Rather than sell the house for Garnett I would rather for the Suns to use the draft (especially if Phoenix gets Atlanta's pick this year).

If the Suns really wanted Garnett I would throw Marion and perhaps even Diaw and multiple picks at Minnesota. If they don't want it I would not make the trade for the 30 year old FC. Please no LB. He is our future. I can't say that for sure with Diaw.

 

[elindholm]

LA

Bynum
Odom
Farmar

L.A. doesn't make that trade. Bryant is still only 28 and they can afford to be patient building around him. Bryant and Garnett would take practically their entire cap, so where does the rest of the team come from?

CHI

Thomas
Gordon
NY PICK?

The Knicks pick isn't going anywhere unless it falls out of the top five, in which case the Suns can make a comparable offer of the Hawks pick. This is a strong offer, but where does the extra salary come from? They'd have to include Hinrich to make the numbers close, and they don't want to do that. They lost their chance to use Brown's expiring contract.

Boston

Green
Jefferson
pick?

That's a pretty weak offer, unless the pick is top-three, in which case of course the Celtics will keep it. Neither Green nor Jefferson has shown anything substantial. And again, there's a salary problem.

In order to beat these packages we have to give up a star (Marion) a young stud (Barbosa) and picks

No, in order to beat the packages the Suns have to come up with something that fits CBA rules, which those don't. And they have to be willing to make a deal, which the Bulls apparently aren't (or else they would have done it already using Brown).

...and IMO we have to keep him away from the Lakers at all costs

Why? The Suns have to be better than all of their rivals, not just the Lakers. Two years ago, you said that the Lakers would make another WCF by 2007. They didn't last year and probably won't this year. I think you have a bit of an obsession with the Lakers. Yes, they've won 217 titles, or whatever the number is, but that was in the past. Now they're just another team that happens to have one excellent player on its roster.

If we don't at least get to the Finals this year - all hell could break loose.....

I definitely agree there. But D'Antoni is the GM, and he's not trading Barbosa. You can write it down.

 

[AZBALLER]

I agree with a lot of points made here.

I don't think we should throw Barbosa into the deal.
I wouldn't mind trading Diaw.
I wouldn't like to trade Marion.
I think Kurt is going to be traded somewhere.
I think our picks have a ton of value.
I think a trade for Garnett could do what the Barkley trade did for the team, except we'd be giving up much more, but in the end we wouldn't be losing in the finals.

Lastly, I'd love to get Garnett, as I think a change of scenery would help him to elevate his game and make us better...But I don't want to give up both Marion, Barbosa and picks to get him.

For once I hope we just use the draft to get better, unless we get a sweet deal for Garnett. Maybe a 3 team trade?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Why? The Suns have to be better than all of their rivals, not just the Lakers. Two years ago, you said that the Lakers would make another WCF by 2007. They didn't last year and probably won't this year. I think you have a bit of an obsession with the Lakers. Yes, they've won 217 titles, or whatever the number is, but that was in the past. Now they're just another team that happens to have one excellent player on its roster.

Good post. Admittedly I am little preoccupied with our rivals to the West. Even more so than Dallas. Why? Because unlike Dallas i think they have the a definitive favorite in both best player and coach in a match up against us (against anyone really). If you add a player like KG to the mix - and apparently he has a house in Malibu and both Buss and Phil Jackson are enamored with the big ticket - you could take me at the point, Chaplin at center and you coming off the bench and thats your wolrd title favorites right there. Im thinking a couple good players would take less money to play in LA on that gravy train anyway.

As for your trade proposals

LA - I think they would do that in a second. Bryant's 28 but title windows come and go like the wind. Plus its about time Stern pulls something to make his preminent franchise relevent again.

CHI - Good point about the CBA. Isn't Mike Sweetney still on that roster? Maybe him and one more filler?

BOS - I think you are underatting Jefferson. Go look at his stats. He is a young stud even comparable to Barbosa if only cuz he has size. And while i agree Boston would not trade the first or second pick i DO think they would trade third or fourth pick and pair him up with Paul Pierce. Include Scalabrine and a cart of basketballs to make it work too.


Maybe the Lakers won't make it this year - Unless you are Greg Anthony who has a crush on Kobe and that squad - but I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and for the Lakers to inevitably add that complimentry piece (Pippen to Kobe's Jordan) or even worse, Bynum gets better sooner rather than later, and to make Suns lives hell.

Ahh forget KG - we need to make our run this year

 

[Diawsome]

Good read. For the fun of it, how about if we put Banks in your trade proposal instead of Barbosa. Banks actually might hold some trade value with Minnesota.

Minnesota would want no part of Banks or his contract. Banks played for Minnesota last year they had the opportunity to resign him during the off-season but let him walk away to Phoenix.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I think that if there were to be a trade this offseason, it would be Amare for Pau Gasol and the first pick. I don't see us going after KG.

 

[pokerface]

If we got a pick in the 4-6 range couldnt that alone put us over the top to getting rings? Plus we have those two other first rounders as well....yeah they're low picks but this is a deep draft.

Not sure I want KG anymore. I was suggesting a while back this very same trade AZballer is suggesting but Barbosa is looking more and more like a stud and he's sooo young and sooo cheap. Barbosa and Amare alone could almost carry this franchise in the future for a lot of years. Add a high pick to that plus the lower picks for role players (plus still having Diaw) and we have a very stable future still in the elite status. I think we give up too much of our future with Barbosa and the picks for getting KG who frankly doesnt add a whole lot more production than Marion.

 

[Skumbag]

Keep the team together...

if we're going to rid ourselves of anything, then banks, kt, and diaw... but marion is such a good workhorse. i dont see KG making that much more of an impact. Plus keeping marion, we keep the high energy.

 

[elindholm]

If you add a player like KG to the mix - and apparently he has a house in Malibu and both Buss and Phil Jackson are enamored with the big ticket - you could take me at the point, Chaplin at center and you coming off the bench and thats your wolrd title favorites right there.

Not unless you and Chaplin are much better players than you let on. Yes, Bryant and Garnett are great, and Jackson does his thing, but you need more than that to be a contender.

Also, whether it's deserved or not, both Bryant and Garnett have the reputation of being difficult teammates. I don't see a lot of stars hitching a ride on that bandwagon. Remember, Malone and Payton joined a squad that had already won three titles, and it didn't pay off.

LA - I think they would do that in a second. Bryant's 28 but title windows come and go like the wind. Plus its about time Stern pulls something to make his preminent franchise relevent again.

I'm assuming that's a joke. Stern doesn't engineer trades. Also, what's the Lakers' "title window" all about? They have Bryant, and they'll have him for several more years. Everyone else is easily replaceable -- even Jackson. (Well, maybe not Bynum. We'll have to see about him.)

CHI - Good point about the CBA. Isn't Mike Sweetney still on that roster? Maybe him and one more filler?

Thomas, Gordon, and Sweetney together get to only about half of Garnett's salary. That's why they needed Brown. Now, they'd have to include Hinrich, or do something complicated with a third team.

BOS - I think you are underatting Jefferson. Go look at his stats. He is a young stud even comparable to Barbosa if only cuz he has size. And while i agree Boston would not trade the first or second pick i DO think they would trade third or fourth pick and pair him up with Paul Pierce.

I'm high on Jefferson, so maybe you're right as far as talent is concerned. Boston will have Ratliff's expiring ($11.7 million) contract next season (starting this summer), so yeah, there are possibilities. I think that if they get Oden or Durant, they'll stand pat and let the nucleus develop. If they fall to fourth or fifth, you're right, they could be a player for Garnett.

or even worse, Bynum gets better sooner rather than later, and to make Suns lives hell.

Right now is the Suns' best chance anyway. Except for the Spurs, all of the other Western powers are improving at least as quickly as Phoenix is.

 

[pokerface]

Keep the team together...

if we're going to rid ourselves of anything, then banks, kt, and diaw... but marion is such a good workhorse. i dont see KG making that much more of an impact. Plus keeping marion, we keep the high energy.

Diaw isnt washed up yet....Its not like he had a Googs injury and cant get it back. There is no reason why he cant turn it around. We've seen flashes of life out of him here and there so its far too early to pull the plug on Diaw so forget it.

 

[Skumbag]

if Diaw does not turn it on during the playoffs then get rid of him. We dont need the inconsistency. Him & Jr are aggravating.