Two words of warning before placing blind faith in Dennis Green for the draft:

[dopleganger]

Rnd Pick Ovrall Name College Pos
1 18 18 DeWayne Washington North Carolina State DB
WASHINGTON WAS A GOOD PLAYER FOR YEARS! LOOK AT THE CAREER LENGTH. HE PLAYED GOOD ON A GOOD DEFENSE FOR YEARS. SURE NOW HE IS OLD AND NOT SO GOOD. BUT COME ON HE WAS A VERY GOOD PICK and left as FA!

1 19 19 Todd Steussie California T
PROBOWLER. STILL IN THE NFL. SB STARTER LAST YEAR AFTER ALL THESE YEARS! Left as a FA.

2 11 40 David Palmer Alabama WR
EXCELLENT CHANGE OF PACE BACK AND STer for YEARS!

2 26 55 Fernando Smith Jackson State DE
HAD A FEW SOLID YEARS.

4 22 125 Mike Wells Iowa DT
5 3 134 Shelly Hammonds Penn State DB

6 18 179 Andrew Jordan Western Carolina TE
HAD A FEW SOLID YEARS.

7 17 211 Pete Bercich Notre Dame LB
HAD A FEW SOLID YEARS AS STer

1994 - steussie was awesome, washington sticks around but isn't any good, and.....well, bercich went to my high school.

Doh!! They suck!

 

[azdad1978]

Damn Jolt everybody makes mistakes. Look at the Cards we made a lot of mistakes in our draft picks, its about time we give the reins to a guy who has a lot of success with his picks. Btw VF pls don't pollute the board with all the draft pick over draft pick of the Vikings. I get it, that Green is a good talent evaluator but don't make this board a viking board.

 

[vikesfan]

Yup, and it's the only one with more than 1 or 2 good players in it.

Rnd Pick Ovrall Name College Pos
1 21 21 Robert Smith Ohio State RB
PRO-BOWLER. RETIRED EARLY!!!

2 23 52 Qadry Ismail Syracuse WR
SOLID WR FOR YEARS!!!!!

3 1 57 John Gerak Penn State G

3 23 79 Gilbert Brown Kansas DT
STILL IN NFL SOLID PLAYER!!!!!

4 22 106 Ashley Sheppard Clemson LB

5 21 133 Everett Lindsay Mississippi T
STILL IN THE NFL!!!!!!!!!! SOLID BACK UP OL.

7 24 192 Gino Torretta Miami (FL) QB

1993, the last one. Smith was awesome when he was healthy, Ismail was a backup, Lindsay started one year, and.....gino toretta!

YEAH LET'S RIP DG FOR HIS 7th round draft pick 11 years ago OMG SICKENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dopleganger]

Damn Jolt everybody makes mistakes. Look at the Cards we made a lot of mistakes in our draft picks, its about time we give the reins to a guy who has a lot of success with his picks. Btw VF pls don't pollute the board with all the draft pick over draft pick of the Vikings. I get it, that Green is a good talent evaluator but don't make this board a viking board.

Yes - What he said!

 

[dopleganger]

Yup, and it's the only one with more than 1 or 2 good players in it.

Rnd Pick Ovrall Name College Pos
1 21 21 Robert Smith Ohio State RB
PRO-BOWLER. RETIRED EARLY!!!

2 23 52 Qadry Ismail Syracuse WR
SOLID WR FOR YEARS!!!!!

3 1 57 John Gerak Penn State G

3 23 79 Gilbert Brown Kansas DT
STILL IN NFL SOLID PLAYER!!!!!

4 22 106 Ashley Sheppard Clemson LB

5 21 133 Everett Lindsay Mississippi T
STILL IN THE NFL!!!!!!!!!! SOLID BACK UP OL.

7 24 192 Gino Torretta Miami (FL) QB

1993, the last one. Smith was awesome when he was healthy, Ismail was a backup, Lindsay started one year, and.....gino toretta!

YEAH LET'S RIP DG FOR HIS 7th round draft pick 11 years ago OMG SICKENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CardFan67]

OK, fine, I see how it goes, anyone who says anything other than woo hoo go cardinals green rules gets crapped on.

Fine. Everyone he picks will be an all pro. Enjoy the 16-0 season.

DG!!!! No PWI for me I will have to wait till the morning to comment on this one...

 

[BACH]

3. Careers are short. You get a guy who plays 3 good years that is a good pick. Analyzing a draft pick based on how he is as a 30 year old man is not fair. If he is still in the NFL at advanced age he was a good pick.

Exactly!!! Pulling out old drafts and claiming that they were terrible, because no quality players were drafted besides the pro bowlers is plain stupid!!! This is the NFL. That's the story of every team in the league. Careers are short. Look at this stat:

Fifty-four percent of the players drafted in 1999 are still playing in the NFL.
61 percent from 2000
77 percent from 2001
84 percent from 2002
95 percent from 2003

 

[vikesfan]

Most posters here see right through this guy's arguements attacking DG's draft record. They are full of holes because his basic premises are wrong - the posters here did a nice job destroying his arguements with logic and facts. He is the one who expects DG to be perfect in the draft and winning wise. He sounds like the Vikes fans I know (is he Vikings fan here to rag on DG?) their notions are completely unrealistic. They expect DG to know Underwood and Boireau will become ill. They expect DG to go 16-0. They expect DG to win the NFC final when he takes a 5 win team to the NFC final that is not good enough. They can't abide 1 losing season even if that season is not DG's fault (death, cap clearing, retirement, key injuries etc). DG had a double standard applied to him. They expect DG to be psychic and know the pro-bowl K who didn't miss one K all year will miss the K that takes the team to the SB.

Everything this dude said is BS. He talks about PIT. Who played CB for PIT for years the guy DG drafted: Washington. TSN magazine gives PIT a C+ tally for their drafting the last 5 years. (The Vikes get a B+ remember 3 of those years are DG draft years). PIT's #1 pick last year did not start. None of their other 4 picks contributed much at all. Drafting is a complex activity and rating drafting is an even more complex activity - it is very easy to do superficial analyses not accounting for the realities involved.

 

[az jam]

Been following the draft for over 50 years (really as I am 61). Its a crap shoot and if you get 2 or 3 players that become starters then you are doing pretty good. Agree with Vikesfan that Denny has done a better job than most. Denny also has developed many players that became "all pros". Some he inherited, some were undrafted free agents and some where from trades or free agent pickups ( i.e Robert Griifith, Chris Carter, Jeff Christy, Randal McDaniel, John Randle, etc). The draft is just one piece of building a winning team.

 

[JeffGollin]

Somewhere between "Don't trust him. He sucks" and "He can do no wrong" is reality.

And we won't know what reality is (or how well we do) until the draft actually occurs.

It must be that we all have this inner urge to prove that (a) we know more than anyone else or (b) are amazing fortune-tellers.

All we can really do is lay out what we do or do not know and then let actual events "come to us."

 

[Harry]

Drafting is the one of the toughest parts of the game. Green seemed to improve, but even so like many others, he had a lot of misses. I would say he learned from them and got better despite these postings. Also keep in mind he usually had a late set of choices since the Vikes almost always made the playoffs. That certainly wasn't a negative for Cardinal drafts.

 

[Bobcat]

1. Underwood became ill. What if he had gotten cancer or been shot on the way to camp. You cannot hold Underwood against DG. He had great measurables, was a double digit sack man in college, with a lousy Dallas team playing part time and with a serious illness - he still managed to get 4 sacks! He became ill. Given DG's track record with draft picks and what he did in school and DAL Underwood would have been a good player at least and maybe another pro-bowler he became ill - end of story. Not DG's fault unless you expect him to be psychic.

Not that it matters in the least but what happened at school was Underwood hurt his ankle and his coach wanted him to play hurt (what did the coach care about him ruining his future) Underwood refused until the ankle was rehabbed once it felt right he told the coach he was ready to play - but the coach petulantly sat him out. Then the coach badmouthed him hoping to hurt his draft status.

I will address DG's drafting record in my next post once again!

Good post it is about time that we stop finding fault when someone who is really ill has a problem. I am disabled and I know how at times Underwood must feel. Thank you Vikesfan for this post!!! It means alot to us who have disabilites, just ask skorp. Pain and suffering sucks, but some how some of us seem to get through it better than others. Mine is faith , and a loving family. Other may be lacking in both. So please guys when someone act out, please show some compassion. We all are not perfect; but we all do bleed the same emotionally.

Enough!!!

Allan

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know you. You may or may not be a dick. You're being one, though. Everyone who doesn't agree with you gets crapped on, then I backed it up and you just start making crap up to put it down anyway.

17 pro bowl appearances overall makes it better. Right. So whoever drafted randall mcdaniel should get credit for 11 pro bowl appearances because of one guy.

I admitted about 10 times already that he picked some DAMN GOOD PLAYERS. Unfortunately, everyone he picked aside from the 5 or 6 pro bowlers barely even played in the NFL. 5 or 6 stars is great, but if every other pick in the draft is crap, you can go ahead and call that good drafting if you want, but I don't.

the cards currently do not have 5 or 6 stars. if denny can do that here, we win. to me, that's good drafting.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

32 San Diego Brees, Drew QB Purdue
33 Cleveland Morgan, Quincy WR Kansas State
35 Atlanta Crumpler, Alge TE North Carolina
36 Cincinnati Johnson, Chad WR Oregon State
37 Indianapolis Bashir, Idrees FS Memphis
38 Chicago Thomas, Anthony RB Michigan
39 Pittsburgh Bell, Kendrell ILB Georgia
40 Seattle Lucas, Ken CB Mississippi
41 Green Bay Ferguson, Robert WR Texas A&M
42 St. Louis Polley, Tommy OLB Florida State
44 Carolina Jenkins, Kris DT Maryland
45 Washington Smoot, Fred CB Mississippi State
47 San Francisco Winborn, Jamie ILB Vanderbilt
49 N.Y. Jets Jordan, LaMont RB Maryland
52 Miami Chambers, Chris WR Wisconsin
58 Buffalo Henry, Travis RB Tennessee
61 Detroit Rogers, Shaun DT Texas

that is one damn fine second round. look at the PLAYERS i left above. and to think we only got kvb and stone out of it. crap.

 

[vikesfan]

Well yeah the draft is a crapshoot and even FA is a crapshoot. But people (TSN, PFW, NFL personnel guys etc) do analyze drafters. Some people are good at drafting. Sure some luck is involved but you can distinguish good drafters from bad drafters. Good drafters hit on more then most, they make less mistakes. Their later round picks stick around and a few become pro-bowlers. Their first round picks become solid starters and a few pro-bowlers. During his time in the NFL DG was the best as far as I can tell (PFW voted him #1 95-00 and TSN had him at the top) he was not perfect and maybe not the very best (I can't think of another GM who did better) but right there at the top.

I mean just take a look at first rounds and the number of busts and mediocre players it's amazing - let alone later rounds. DG can break down players and see what works and doesn't. Not all GMs or coaches or player personnel guys are equal some win awards and do well for years and others are fired and no longer work in the field.

The key is that expectations are realistic of a drafter. DG has a high standard in his drafts. Sure some luck is involved he has had both bad and good luck. The key is when good players dropped he jumped on them, and he has traded up to get a player he liked. And he blew some picks. The thing is as long as he keeps hitting as much as he did in MIN this team will have a real shot at being a perrenial winner.

Mix in as azjam said solid teaching and development of players. And some astute FA pickups and the Cards have a real shot.

 

[Card Trader]

Looks like he's averaging about 1 or 2 guys a year who actually end up playing.

If you changed that statement to be 1 or 2 guys that end up in the pro-bowl from each draft, it would shed an entirely different light on your pathetic argument wouldn't it?!