UA & Pac-12 Basketball Thread

[TJ]

Not UA related but apparently something on the horizon.

not going to change who the best team in the conference is this year, but could shake up the rest of the year and going forward future years.

Ok....so what is it??


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[MaoTosiFanClub]

http://ucla.scout.com/2/1250943.html

 

[Russ Smith]

http://ucla.scout.com/2/1250943.html

Yeah it's all speculation right now but it looks like UCLA is going to have a new coach fairly soon, probably interim and then a new one next season.

Don't think it's going to impact this season in the conference, with 8 scholarship kids UCLA can't challenge UA, best chance would be 2nd and I think that's unlikely.

We will find out later but you figure Xmas, then Bowl game then game Friday night nothing is going to happen until the weekend but I wouldn't be surprised if this time next week Phil Matthews is the interim coach at UCLA.

 

[TJ]

Not the least bit surprised by Howland being on the hot seat. How many players have left the program for one reason or another?




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[Russ Smith]

Not the least bit surprised by Howland being on the hot seat. How many players have left the program for one reason or another?




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Way too many.

If they had 13 to start the season losing 2 and maybe another on the way would be somewhat tolerable. But when you start with 10, losing 2 and maybe another on the way is a tipping point.

We'll see. Pretty remarkable fall from grace.

 

[Chaplin]

Talk about being overly dramatic.

The writing's been on the wall about Howland for quite some time.

 

[Russ Smith]

Talk about being overly dramatic.

The writing's been on the wall about Howland for quite some time.

Nope you have to realize how thigns go at UCLA. To change coaches midseason, without an illness or an NCAA situation is pretty much unprecedented.

The last thing they wanted to do was do this during the season so if it DOES happen, it's pretty big.

The impact on the conference will be down the line. UCLA has been at a disadvantage for several years now because there are several kids each year they can't recruit because of Ben, and of the ones they get, they lose too many of them.

If they pick the right guy to hire next alot of that goes away and UCLA can get really good really quickly again. If they pick the wrong guy it could set them back further.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It's going to take 2-3 years for UCLA to be good again. Even with BH gone there will be a mass exodus of talent.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's going to take 2-3 years for UCLA to be good again. Even with BH gone there will be a mass exodus of talent.

oh absolutely unless we get a USc situation where we luck into several kids leaving another school all at once.

If you change coaches today and only lose Drew and Shabazz that's still 6 kids next season plus 3 recruits, only 2 of whom seem to be UCLA level, and they're both guards on a team with Adams and Powell and Anderson all returning.

The damage is already done. But getting the right new coach allows them to quickly move forward after that.

We will quite possible lose Anderson too but not guaranteed.

One good thing about having only 8 kids, it takes very few to qualify as a mass exodus.



What you hear LaVine is a Bruin essentially no matter what, no idea on Freeman and the other commit Allen. they think they're in fairly good with a couple of other recruits and it's not clear how that would change with a coaching move.

 

[Lefty]

It's going to take 2-3 years for UCLA to be good again. Even with BH gone there will be a mass exodus of talent.

By then, the way Miller is recruiting and coaching, it will be the UofA and then everyone else.

 

[Russ Smith]

By then, the way Miller is recruiting and coaching, it will be the UofA and then everyone else.

Well that's part of UCLA hiring the right guy. Miller is doing a fantastic job of recruiting right now but he's doing it against a guy who has made a lot of "enemies" on the West Coast and who most people figured was going to lose his job eventually.

Right now it's easier to recruit against UCLA than it should be and Miller is doing a terrific job of exploiting that.

If UCLA makes the right hire, that gets tougher to do going forward.

Won't mean UA isn't the best team this year and next year too, but if UCLA gets it right, they won't be swimming upstream so much soon.

 

[ozzfloyd]

When is the last time UCLA had "the right guy", 1975?

 

[Russ Smith]

When is the last time UCLA had "the right guy", 1975?

Well a title in 95 and 3 Final 4's in the 2000's shows it's still possible.

Right guy doesn't mean do what Wooden did, that's not happening. It means hire the coach who can sustain the program. Howland got them close but for whatever reasons was not only unable to keep them there, he's unable to stay out of his own way now.

A good hire and UCLA will be back challenging for the conf title relatively quickly. A bad hire and who knows.

But all indications are they're going to have the chance to make a good hire, they just need to do it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

oh absolutely unless we get a USc situation where we luck into several kids leaving another school all at once.

If you change coaches today and only lose Drew and Shabazz that's still 6 kids next season plus 3 recruits, only 2 of whom seem to be UCLA level, and they're both guards on a team with Adams and Powell and Anderson all returning.

The damage is already done. But getting the right new coach allows them to quickly move forward after that.

We will quite possible lose Anderson too but not guaranteed.

One good thing about having only 8 kids, it takes very few to qualify as a mass exodus.



What you hear LaVine is a Bruin essentially no matter what, no idea on Freeman and the other commit Allen. they think they're in fairly good with a couple of other recruits and it's not clear how that would change with a coaching move.

It will be more than Bazz and Drew.

 

[Russ Smith]

It will be more than Bazz and Drew.

Oh I think we're probably going to lose another kid in less than a week. I just meant when you only have 8 kids, losing even a few is a huge deal.

I suspect they're hoping a coaching change will impact keeping at least one of the kids around but it might be too late for that.

This IMO is one of those rip the band aid off moments they need to do it.

Bazz and Drew was the best case scenario my suspicion is we're past that already.

 

[ozzfloyd]

Well a title in 95 and 3 Final 4's in the 2000's shows it's still possible.

Right guy doesn't mean do what Wooden did, that's not happening. It means hire the coach who can sustain the program. Howland got them close but for whatever reasons was not only unable to keep them there, he's unable to stay out of his own way now.

A good hire and UCLA will be back challenging for the conf title relatively quickly. A bad hire and who knows.

But all indications are they're going to have the chance to make a good hire, they just need to do it.

Title, and 3 FF's, great...1 coach fired, one about to be... Regardless of the successes, if you fire those coaches, you didn't have the "right guy"

 

[Russ Smith]

Title, and 3 FF's, great...1 coach fired, one about to be... Regardless of the successes, if you fire those coaches, you didn't have the "right guy"

Virtually all college coaches get fired or leave eventually. You think Miller is going to stay at Arizona for the long haul? how long?

It's a whole different world. What the right guy means now IMO is a guy who doesn't have to try and recruit the South and East because all the top programs on the West Coast hate him. Who doesn't miss out on top kids every year because they have an older brother he pissed off etc.

Ben was the right guy when hired and did a very good job, until something changed. I now assume that something was Santa Clara hiring Kerry Keating and we all found out just how critical Keating was to keeping Ben Howland's personality from messing everything up.

If they get a Smart, Stevens, even a Gregg marshall or Tad Boyle it's a potential homerun and could be the right guy. I should add it's entirely likely that UCLA, USC and UW will all change coaches this year, highly probable one of them will target Tad Boyle and if they get him, that would add Colorado to the list of Pac 12 schools changing coaches.

Just for kicks UCLA hires Shaka Smart, USC hires Jamie Dixon, UW hires Boyle away from Colorado I think that qualifies as shaking up the Pac 12.

 

[overseascardfan]

Virtually all college coaches get fired or leave eventually. You think Miller is going to stay at Arizona for the long haul? how long?

It's a whole different world. What the right guy means now IMO is a guy who doesn't have to try and recruit the South and East because all the top programs on the West Coast hate him. Who doesn't miss out on top kids every year because they have an older brother he pissed off etc.

Ben was the right guy when hired and did a very good job, until something changed. I now assume that something was Santa Clara hiring Kerry Keating and we all found out just how critical Keating was to keeping Ben Howland's personality from messing everything up.

If they get a Smart, Stevens, even a Gregg marshall or Tad Boyle it's a potential homerun and could be the right guy. I should add it's entirely likely that UCLA, USC and UW will all change coaches this year, highly probable one of them will target Tad Boyle and if they get him, that would add Colorado to the list of Pac 12 schools changing coaches.

Just for kicks UCLA hires Shaka Smart, USC hires Jamie Dixon, UW hires Boyle away from Colorado I think that qualifies as shaking up the Pac 12.

Smart & Stevens are hypotheticals. Are there any rumblings regarding who UCLA could be seriously targeting? I agree with you about hiring the right guy can get things back on track quickly, look at what Mora Jr did for the football team. His former ASU staff is really doing well with ARZ kids.

 

[gmabel830]

Ran into the Arizona basketball team and their nice shiny new trophy at Phoenix Sky Harbor tonight -- but didn't want to be "that guy" after their long flight home from Hawaii.

 

[Russ Smith]

Smart & Stevens are hypotheticals. Are there any rumblings regarding who UCLA could be seriously targeting? I agree with you about hiring the right guy can get things back on track quickly, look at what Mora Jr did for the football team. His former ASU staff is really doing well with ARZ kids.

It's UCLA so you have to understand the politics. UCLA will absolutely call Bill Self and Tom Izzo, they'll be turned down of course but they HAVE to call those guys or the boosters will be mad. They will talk to Pitino and Donovan. My guess is both guys will listen, Pitino is too old and has some recent baggage UCLA won't like, Donovan will listen, get a raise, and stay at Florida.

My guess is the next coach will be one of Stevens, Smart, Boyle or Marshall and I think Stevens is the least likely of the 4.

USC has been connected to Dixon for awhile but he didn't want to compete that closely with friend and mentor Ben Howland. So when Ben moves on I'd be quite surprised if USC doesn't throw the money at Dixon and hire him.

UW if you're a UA fan you want Romar out because that would guarantee UA gets Gordon. At this point they've gained so much ground on him anyways it might not matter but that would cement it.

Boyle is the guy in the Pac 12 everyone else likes as a coach, he'd be a very solid hire for any of those 3 teams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I forgot this was on tonight. Missed the whole damn thing. Bear down.

It's too bad you missed it. It was frustrating but fun to watch anyway. The outcome was never really in doubt though. Once we pulled out to that 1 - 0 lead, I knew we had it.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Nice win for UCLA tonight against 7th ranked Missouri. Missouri outplayed them and should have won the game but the Pac needs every quality win it can get. UCLA is definitely playing better and a loss tonight could have been devastating for selection and seeding hopes come tourney time if the Bruins all of a sudden get hot in conference (which I'm pretty sure they will).

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

Nice win for UCLA tonight against 7th ranked Missouri. Missouri outplayed them and should have won the game but the Pac needs every quality win it can get. UCLA is definitely playing better and a loss tonight could have been devastating for selection and seeding hopes come tourney time if the Bruins all of a sudden get hot in conference (which I'm pretty sure they will).

Steve

Yeah I can't believe the officiating in that game, if UCLA had lost getting all those breaks it would have been amazing. 9 fouls on UCLA in the 2nd half and OT and 6 of them were on purpose. Several uncalled pushoffs in the first half, at least 4 walks I counted on UCLA not called. I completely agreed with Haith, hell even Bill Walton, a total homer, was pointing out the ref bias.

But huge win. They manned up, at the end Powell was in on one foot because Adams was out with cramps and powell hobbled over to close out and make Jabari Brown miss a big 3.

Even Bazz, who plays no defense whatsoever, made the defensive play at the end closing out on Pressey's missed 3.

It was like an AAU game in terms of defense but huge win.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah I can't believe the officiating in that game, if UCLA had lost getting all those breaks it would have been amazing. 9 fouls on UCLA in the 2nd half and OT and 6 of them were on purpose. Several uncalled pushoffs in the first half, at least 4 walks I counted on UCLA not called. I completely agreed with Haith, hell even Bill Walton, a total homer, was pointing out the ref bias.

But huge win. They manned up, at the end Powell was in on one foot because Adams was out with cramps and powell hobbled over to close out and make Jabari Brown miss a big 3.

Even Bazz, who plays no defense whatsoever, made the defensive play at the end closing out on Pressey's missed 3.

It was like an AAU game in terms of defense but huge win.

I think the line for Shabazz tonight has to be concerning. His 27 points were important but that's pretty much all he brings to the table. If you add up his assists, steals, blocks and rebounds tonight you get a grand total of 2. You almost have to try in order to get numbers like that.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

I think the line for Shabazz tonight has to be concerning. His 27 points were important but that's pretty much all he brings to the table. If you add up his assists, steals, blocks and rebounds tonight you get a grand total of 2. You almost have to try in order to get numbers like that.

Steve

Yeah I've been pretty brutal about him on the Suns board I'm not at all happy with his effort. 27 and 2 huge 3's in the OT but he made Keion Bell look like a lottery pick in the first half(I think he had 13) andonly 1 rebound. I think he actually had 2 assists they missed one. He and Adams were so bad in rotations on the weakside on the ball screens they contributed to Pressey flirting with an NCAA record. Bell missed a layup that would have been 20 and they missed a half dozen other open looks, I think the UCLA scorekeeper has been inflating assists all year(thus Larry Drew's stats) but Pressey ate us up on that play. Drew just constantly followed on the screen relied on the hedge and then the late rotating freshmen got carved up. Amazed you can win against a good team like that but when the Wears make that midrange shot, UCLA is VERY tough to guard.

Bazz has to decide to play at both ends. He really ticked me off last night in transition missed a dunk, thought he was fouled and lay on the floor crying about it as UCLA rebounded and scored. Howland literally had to run onto the floor and pull Bazz away from the refs, what the hell are you complaining about the TEAM scored, he's way too "get mine" fixated IMO. Relentless scorer, not afraid of the moment and came up huge but the game would have been nowhere near that close if he would just try to guard his man.