Update on Whitehurst

[Mitch]

I asked mitch about whitehurst and started a thread about him before the reports came out about the cards being interested and by your logic why bother talking about the draft its just all a bunch of kids who have never done anything in the NFL.

I have to give you total props az1616, because you were on to Whitehurst before anyone. You called it, pal! Great job!

To add my own 2 cents...

1. Bulger is NOT in the Cardinals' plans. Even one of his own teammtes declared, "he has no presence." Bulger lacks Warner's toughness and by now he's worse off physically than Warner.

2. Whiz has surveyed the entire UFA and RFA and 2010 draft field and concluded that Whitehurst is the best of the bunch. He's no rookie. If he catches onto the system quickly, develops chemistry with the WRs and makes his move, he could be the starter this year and for many years to come. His physcial skills are first-rate. With Whiz coaching him, he might become very good. And Whiz will be heavily invested in him in that he would be the first QB Whiz has traded for or drafted in Arizona.

3. The fact that Whiz is willing to spend a 3rd rounder on Whitehurst is a clear indication that he is not supremely confident in Matt Leinart...the contract issue is one concern, but Leinart's uneven and uninspired play is another.

 

[CardinalChris]

3. The fact that Whiz is willing to spend a 3rd rounder on Whitehurst is a clear indication that he is not supremely confident in Matt Leinart...the contract issue is one concern, but Leinart's uneven and unispired play is another.

I think it has more to do with Whiz's desire for competition at EVERY position than a reflection of his opinion. We know he thinks competition brings out the best in most players, so why not provide some. Does a 3rd round QB really offer competition to Leinart? Heck, even Whiz has no idea how Leinart will do as a full time starter. He has an idea, but until it happens, why not hedge your bets? I think it has more to do with competition and the inflated salary of Leinart in 2011 than a lack of confidence.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

i guess my biggest problem with this is giving this guy a contract he hasn't even come close to deserving. Sure, he might be just as good as any QB we'd pick in the third round, but he's gonna COST like a 1st rounder with the contract I fear being talked about. I just don't like the idea of giving a 3rd stringer, who did very little in college and hasn't been able to beat out career back-up Billy Volek, a nice sizable contract and getting rid of a pick in the process. that's just a double whammy that makes it hard to swallow for me.

I haven't heard any contract numbers. I can't see him breaking the bank. Throw in the fact that the Cards gave BSP about $1 million last year to do nothing, i can't see how his contract could be that unreasonable.

 

[Buckybird]

3. The fact that Whiz is willing to spend a 3rd rounder on Whitehurst is a clear indication that he is not supremely confident in Matt Leinart...the contract issue is one concern, but Leinart's uneven and uninspired play is another.

Mitch I agree. There isn't a bigger Leinart defender on the board than me but if this trade goes down, it's probably 90% odds he's playing elsewhere next season.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Problem concerning Whitehurst is, the more you know, the less you want him

Honestly, I don't know how so many people can be ranting and raving so much about a guy who hasn't shown a bit of anything real in the NFL. I think it's because we're interested in and supposedly trying to sign him, and IMO that's the ONLY reason everyone seems so high on him. If the team had given him the 'no thanks' treatment, and his name popped up, I bet 90 percent of the board would have been giving the 'thank God' reaction.

I am not saying Whitehurst is the be all end all. He's just a young guy with a good arm and in a tough spot roster wise. The problem with good young QB's with lots of real game tape is they just don't come available. You have to take risks. And I don't see giving up a third rounder as all that big a risk.

Basically my feeling is I don't want to err on the side of washed up vet who maybe able to come in and pull out a win or two. I would rather take the leap on a guy with a high ceiling and whose biggest knock it seems is that he hasn't gotten off the bench for a team that has an All Pro at the position.

If thats the worst you can come up with about the guy (opposed to the inaccurate Derek Anderson, the never was David Carr, the turnover machine Delhomme, the old and brittle Pennington and Bulger) then that's a roll of the dice I am on board for.

Keep in mind its the back up QB too. Hopefully we never have to see Whitehurst play in 2010. But I will be ALOT more intrigued about Whitehurst coming into the game for an ineffective/injured Matty then scrub Bulger who has been overatted his entire career IMO.

And who knows. When its all said and done, maybe Whitehurst shows enough that he would be the opening day starter over Matt.

That's worth a third rounder, eh?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

i guess my biggest problem with this is giving this guy a contract he hasn't even come close to deserving. Sure, he might be just as good as any QB we'd pick in the third round, but he's gonna COST like a 1st rounder with the contract I fear being talked about. I just don't like the idea of giving a 3rd stringer, who did very little in college and hasn't been able to beat out career back-up Billy Volek, a nice sizable contract and getting rid of a pick in the process. that's just a double whammy that makes it hard to swallow for me.

Two things:

If the contract is as big as you talk about then trust that Wiz knows what the hell he is doing.

Otherwise I don't see it being contract as you are guesstimating and certainly not first rounder money. What was the high tender talk, 1.7 million? Thats back up QB land right there.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I have to give you total props az1616, because you were on to Whitehurst before anyone. You called it, pal! Great job!

To add my own 2 cents...

1. Bulger is NOT in the Cardinals' plans. Even one of his own teammtes declared, "he has no presence." Bulger lacks Warner's toughness and by now he's worse off physically than Warner.

2. Whiz has surveyed the entire UFA and RFA and 2010 draft field and concluded that Whitehurst is the best of the bunch. He's no rookie. If he catches onto the system quickly, develops chemistry with the WRs and makes his move, he could be the starter this year and for many years to come. His physcial skills are first-rate. With Whiz coaching him, he might become very good. And Whiz will be heavily invested in him in that he would be the first QB Whiz has traded for or drafted in Arizona.

3. The fact that Whiz is willing to spend a 3rd rounder on Whitehurst is a clear indication that he is not supremely confident in Matt Leinart...the contract issue is one concern, but Leinart's uneven and uninspired play is another.

As much as I love Matt and want to see him succeed in Cardinal red, this post is pretty much spot on.

#3 may not be entirely true though. Think about if Wiz had brought in Pennington and then drafted Jevan Snead in the third round. Is that him having no faith in Leinart.

Still the contract + the third round pick + the fact that if he signs here over Seattle you can damn well believe that Wiz told him its going to be an open competition from Day one with a REAL shot to start = Writing on the wall for Matt?

Or maybe we just have the Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation in SD from about 4 years ago on our hands.

Dreaming is free

 

[BigDavis75]

Are you familiar with THE PLAN? Must say, I'm not privy to it.

Whats the point of this post, I mean outside of you trying to be condescending. If you really want to make the point that giving up a third rounder from the strongest draft in years for a third-string QB is a good idea please do.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Whats the point of this post, I mean outside of you trying to be condescending. If you really want to make the point that giving up a third rounder from the strongest draft in years for a third-string QB is a good idea please do.

I did.

A bunch

 

[BigDavis75]

I went back to 2004 and looked at the guys drafted 88-89-90. Other than 2004, it's a pretty bad list. There's not a whole lot of production coming from the bottom round 3.
88 89 90
2009: Laderius Webb Jared Cook Chris Owens
2008: Bruce Davis Steve Slaton Marcus Harrison
2007: Andy Allerman Aaron Rouse Tony Hunt
2006: James Anderson Rashard Butler Maurice Stovall
2005: Sione Pouha Atiyyah Ellison Jordan Beck
2004: Darrion Scott Matt Ware Matt Schaub

2004 was, by far, the best year. It's too early to judge on 2008-2009 but overall,after 2004, Steve Slaton is the only player of significance and he was benched this past year.

Pouha played a pretty big role on the Jets D after Jenkins went down and I thought Webb did pretty well with the Ravens when he played. This draft is an exception in how good the quality is in a lot of positions. I obviously can't place a direct value on any of our picks, but I feel a third rounder in this draft is worth more and will get us a better player than a third rounder in any of the years you looked up.

 

[Mitch]

As much as I love Matt and want to see him succeed in Cardinal red, this post is pretty much spot on.

#3 may not be entirely true though. Think about if Wiz had brought in Pennington and then drafted Jevan Snead in the third round. Is that him having no faith in Leinart.

Still the contract + the third round pick + the fact that if he signs here over Seattle you can damn well believe that Wiz told him its going to be an open competition from Day one with a REAL shot to start = Writing on the wall for Matt?

Or maybe we just have the Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation in SD from about 4 years ago on our hands.

Dreaming is free

I agree, AF...and you've been right on about all of this, the thing is that it's not like the Cardinals are the only team that recognizes the potential in Whitehurst. Obviously, the Seahawks do as well.

What impresses me is that of ALL the options Whiz has considered, this is the player he wants. This makes this deal a great one to me.

I thought Jason Campbell was the right fit...I still do...he comes right in with starting experience three years in a row and I think he's such a good fit I'd give up the #26 pick for him...but Whiz obviously thinks he can keep the #26 and get as good or better a fit. I'm with Whiz 100%. And, quite frankly, I am so happy we have a HC who understands what it takes to win the the NFL and is willing to make moves to give his team the BEST opportunity to win.

 

[BigDavis75]

I did.

A bunch

I saw your points and I agree with most of what you said, it is just my standpoint that we are better served to draft a young defensive player and improve the team where we need to the most.

A third rounder is a steep price for a guy like Whitehurst. He has a lot of things going for him but he has never shown anything on the field and that's the point a lot of people are taking issue with. I like a lot of things about him, especially the fact he played under Norv and the notion that he has gotten much of the learning process out of the way.

I think the overarching issue, as others have posted, it that the organization is not comfortable with Matty. If the Cards think Whitehurst can be the guy, and if they feel that bringing him in is beneficial enough to give up a chance at a good defensive player then I suppose I'm begrudgingly for it.

We do really really need another QB going into this season though. The way Leinart's contract is set up, there is a very good chance he won't be with us after this season. So I'm not entirely opposed to Whitehurst. In fact, I would prefer him greatly over any draftee that we could pick up in the third round.

So, if the organization sees us parting ways with Matt, and they think Whitehurst can be the guy then we should go get him but if he grades out similarly to someone like DA then I think it would be foolish to give up a high pick for Whitehurst.

 

[Gee!]

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[Stout]

I am not saying Whitehurst is the be all end all. He's just a young guy with a good arm and in a tough spot roster wise. The problem with good young QB's with lots of real game tape is they just don't come available. You have to take risks. And I don't see giving up a third rounder as all that big a risk.

Basically my feeling is I don't want to err on the side of washed up vet who maybe able to come in and pull out a win or two. I would rather take the leap on a guy with a high ceiling and whose biggest knock it seems is that he hasn't gotten off the bench for a team that has an All Pro at the position.

If thats the worst you can come up with about the guy (opposed to the inaccurate Derek Anderson, the never was David Carr, the turnover machine Delhomme, the old and brittle Pennington and Bulger) then that's a roll of the dice I am on board for.

Keep in mind its the back up QB too. Hopefully we never have to see Whitehurst play in 2010. But I will be ALOT more intrigued about Whitehurst coming into the game for an ineffective/injured Matty then scrub Bulger who has been overatted his entire career IMO.

And who knows. When its all said and done, maybe Whitehurst shows enough that he would be the opening day starter over Matt.

That's worth a third rounder, eh?

And I don't want to err on a scrub. I think he'll be a scrub, therefore I'll stick to my guns on it. He was a scrub in college, but he had good measurables (arm strength, etc), but he played like a scrub. TOTAL scrub (see TDs and INTs). I'm not for him.

Also, I don't want to spend a 3rd round pick on a backup. I think Leinart will be the starter, so why burn a high draft pick on a backup, especially a backup that is nothing but a giant ???

It boils down to the fact that I think he's not any good and some other folks think he might be good. That's fine, because we each have our own opinions. The problem is, if your opinion is wrong, we lose a high draft pick for a scrub backup QB. I'd rather sign Derek Anderson and draft a QB like Skelton a bit later in the draft.

 

[Stout]

I trust this guy's football knowledge more than the medias, yours, or most of the fans on this board. No knock on anyone here, just this guy is right more than wrong (a lot). I have no doubt you don't trust him, nor should you. But don't assume everyone on this board knows nothing about him.

How about Michael Lombardi? That front office scrub? I am amazed at the value you assign him because of his depth chart ranking. Aren't you doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing, just the opposite way?

Nothing wrong with you trusting the guy; I have a few Florida fan friends that tell me teams should steer clear of Spikes. I believe that info and don't want us to draft him early. That doesn't mean I'll expect everyone else to believe the same info.

Michael Lombardi...is on the NFL Network. Not in a Front Office. Why is that? I don't care what the talking heads say, because I have a strong feeling about this player. And it's a 'no thanks' feeling. If he didn't cost us compensation, I'd just say 'In Whiz We Trust', because he's a backup. He not only would currently cost us compensation, but high compensation. No thanks.

 

[CardinalChris]

Nothing wrong with you trusting the guy; I have a few Florida fan friends that tell me teams should steer clear of Spikes. I believe that info and don't want us to draft him early. That doesn't mean I'll expect everyone else to believe the same info.

Michael Lombardi...is on the NFL Network. Not in a Front Office. Why is that? I don't care what the talking heads say, because I have a strong feeling about this player. And it's a 'no thanks' feeling. If he didn't cost us compensation, I'd just say 'In Whiz We Trust', because he's a backup. He not only would currently cost us compensation, but high compensation. No thanks.

Then I guess I am really confused why you would laugh at my comment so hard that you almost fell out of your chair when you do the very things you mock. Opinion and gut feelings are fine, but I have mine, and it is no sillier than how you arrived at your opinion of Spikes.

As for the compensation I am fine with it because I think this is how Whiz prepares for Leinarts contract mess next year, which is inevitable unless he is so bad no extension is warranted.

And as for the media. You are right many of these guys are former because they are in bad organizations that go through a cleaning, not due to horrible performance. Many just prefer the hours. There are a certain few I trust, Michael Lombardi, Adam Schefter are a couple. And when they all seem to have the same consensus on Whitehurst, there may be something to it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Two things:

If the contract is as big as you talk about then trust that Wiz knows what the hell he is doing.

Otherwise I don't see it being contract as you are guesstimating and certainly not first rounder money. What was the high tender talk, 1.7 million? Thats back up QB land right there.

if all we were doing was signing him to the tender, don't you think San Diego would match? Come on guys, if we're willing to give up a 3rd round pick for the guy, we're going to be signing him to a contract that's more than 1.7 million bucks.

 

[HoodieBets]

if all we were doing was signing him to the tender, don't you think San Diego would match? Come on guys, if we're willing to give up a 3rd round pick for the guy, we're going to be signing him to a contract that's more than 1.7 million bucks.

Give me one reason SD would match when they have Rivers and Volek? All they want is the pick they arent gonna match any offer.

 

[TruColor]

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The World's Most Interesting Man as a porn star in the mid-'80s.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Give me one reason SD would match when they have Rivers and Volek? All they want is the pick they arent gonna match any offer.

because he'd be an incredibly cheap back-up who's been groomed in their system.

do you think our contract will only be for the tender? No one signs another team's restricted agents just for the tender and back-up QB's who are restricted sure as hell ain't gonna sign for 1.7 million dollar.s

 

[HoodieBets]

because he'd be an incredibly cheap back-up who's been groomed in their system.

do you think our contract will only be for the tender? No one signs another team's restricted agents just for the tender and back-up QB's who are restricted sure as hell ain't gonna sign for 1.7 million dollar.s

Lets be honest we arent looking at 5 mil a year here it would most likely be close to 2mil seeing as that would be pretty much on par with the average backup QB, David Carr, Seneca Wallace, Byron Leftwich, Jon Kitna, JT O'Sullivan, Mark Brunell, Kyle Boller, Jim Sorgi....all backups off their rookie contract who make around 2 mil a year and that includes bonuses. The highest paid backup in the league last year not on a rookie contract was Luke McCown at 3.7 then Mike Vick at 3.6 mil then Chris Redman at 3.1 mil.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Lets be honest we arent looking at 5 mil a year here it would most likely be close to 2mil seeing as that would be pretty much on par with the average backup QB, David Carr, Seneca Wallace, Byron Leftwich, Jon Kitna, JT O'Sullivan, Mark Brunell, Kyle Boller, Jim Sorgi....all backups off their rookie contract who make around 2 mil a year and that includes bonuses. The highest paid backup in the league last year not on a rookie contract was Luke McCown at 3.7 then Mike Vick at 3.6 mil then Chris Redman at 3.1 mil.

i just think you're wrong that it'll be close to 2 million. i could be wrong. we'll see.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

First, I don't want to express my anti Matt Leinart sentiment in this post, however, Leinart to me was always more or less so a Denny Green type QB, he doesn't seem cerebral enough to run Whiz's offense...

I'll never forget attending the '06 Draft Party at Jacksons On 3rd and cheering ecstatically when it was announced that the Lions drafted Ernie Sims at #9 clearly paving the way for Leinart to be drafted by the Cardinals...I so thought that we finally had our Future Franchise QB, but he hasn't made many strides since then... He showed some glimpses vs. the Vikings and the infamous Bears game during his rookie season, but just seems he's taken some steps backwards....

Several make the claims it's because he never received the opportunity to start, didn't get many reps in practice..etc...However, how many times have we seen undrafted QBs or those who were drafted lower than Leinart (and not w/those credentials) come in without any practice time and they make an immediate impact....

Whiz has never given an absolute vote-of-confidence in Leinart...True, he started Leinart in '07, but would take him out (in favor of Kurt) during pressure situations and would use the "no-huddle" offense...The circumstances didn't necessarily merit the "no-huddle", but he probably used it to give an excuse as to why Leinart was removed....

Also, glad Leinart won't be getting the starting job out of default...That happened here w/McCown, Jeff Blake, and a few others and that couldn't be the case now.....

Leinart has I believe 2-years left on his rookie contract...They plan on signing Whitehurst for 2-years as well... Coincidence? I think not..They want those 2 to battle it out...To better each other..But in the meantime, they really hope Bulger could come in, but they again are obviously held captive in that regard until the Rams finally make him available...

Plus, the Rams (obviously being a divisional rival) are relishing the thought that they are somewhat dictating the Cardinals fate at that position.. Not like they'll do us any favors....

Whitehurst prevents it from being Leinart or nothing...... That is if he course signs here....We shall see......

I know it's premature, but would the QB class of '11 be deeper than this year's? So, that means they're not forced to use any pick on a QB now....

 

[HoodieBets]

i just think you're wrong that it'll be close to 2 million. i could be wrong. we'll see.

So if you had to guess how much do you think he will get?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

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I posted a crappy photoshop in the other thread, but he looks like the lost member of the Bee-Gees.

I guess the cards will sign him in order to keep up thier QB beard quota.