Updated Depth Chart / Team Needs

[WisconsinCard]

@

Ok. I disagree. Time will tell I guess.

@Chopper0080 thank you for keeping it civil and have a good debate. Many on here can take a lesson from you. It's ok to disagree and still have respect for both sides. Thanks again

 

[Chopper0080]

No, my point is that there are countless examples of superior athletes flaming out in the NFL due to poor football instincts, technique, and smarts. I even sighted some fairly recent examples with the Cardinals.

That does not mean Wirfs will flame out, but there’s certainly enough evidence on film that he is not the sure thing that most of you believe just because he’s versatile and blew up the combine.

I personally prefer actual football players that show up in pads between the white lines than guys that do it in shorts around stationary cones.

Wirfs was an Outland Trophy semi finalist...Wills was not.

Wirfs has been a starter in all three years at Iowa...Wills was not in his first year at Alabama.

So, Wirfs has been a starter longer, was an awards semi-finalist, and blew up the combine...and you are arguing he is the more questionable prospect?

 

[Garthshort]

Chopper, you make a VG argument. The only way that I could make the case for Wills is to remind everyone that there is so much talent at Alabama that it is probably much harder to get PT and be noticed. Iowa turns out vg OL, but they probably have less competition and thus more PT. I have no idea who is better and it will be interesting to follow the careers of both. Seems that both (according to the experts) are vg and will go high in the Draft.

 

[TheCardFan]

NFL DRAFT NEEDS: NFC WEST

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BY ROTOWORLD STAFF
Updated On: April 16, 2020, 3:03 am ET

Arizona Cardinals

Notable Offseason Additions: WR DeAndre Hopkins, DT Jordan Phillips, LB Devon Kennard, LB De'Vondre Campbell, DT Trevon Coley

Starting Offense
QB: Kyler Murray
RB: Kenyan Drake
WR1: DeAndre Hopkins
WR2: Larry Fitzgerald
WR3: Christian Kirk
TE: Maxx Williams
LT: D.J. Humphries
LG: Justin Pugh
C: Mason Cole
RG: J.R. Sweezy
RT: Marcus Gilbert

Starting Defense
DE: Zach Allen
DE: Corey Peters
NT: Jordan Phillips
MLB Jordan Hicks
MLB: De'Vondre Campbell
OLB: Chandler Jones
OLB: Devon Kennard
CB: Patrick Peterson
CB: Byron Murphy
SCB: Jalen Davis
S: Budda Baker
S: Jalen Thompson

TEAM NEEDS

Offensive line: The Cardinals join the Rams, Dolphins and Jets as the only teams with fewer than $20 million devoted to their offensive line. Kyler Murray improved at avoiding pressure as the season went on, ultimately posting the second-longest average time from snap to sack among all QBs. Still, Arizona has drafted just one offensive lineman with a top-three round pick since 2016. For now, the 2020 Cardinals sure look a lot like the 2019 Browns.

Pass catcher: Obviously adding DeAndre Hopkins was huge, but the Cardinals likely aren't done adding pieces to an offense that coach Kliff Kingsbury would ideally like to be even more four-WR heavy. Larry Fitzgerald has to retire at some point (right?), and Christian Kirk was the only other consistently-reliable pass catcher in this offense last season. Perhaps 2019 draft picks Andy Isabella, KeeSean Johnson and/or Hakeem Butler can step it up in 2020, but either way this offense needs to surround Murray with more talent, regardless of the position.

Secondary: This pass defense was bad against No. 1 WRs (27th in DVOA), TEs (32nd) and RBs (30th) alike last season. Patrick Peterson and Budda Baker should be the only locked-in starters, as the group's other talents simply failed to consistently perform in 2019. The Cardinals were one of just six defenses to allow at least seven net yards per pass attempt.

CARDINALS' 2020 DRAFT PICKS
Norris’ Options

1 (8). OT Jedrick Wills, Alabama - It is imperative that Steve Keim and company elevate the overall talent of the Cardinals offensive line. Kyle Murray’s rookie season was incredible, but he constantly elevated numerous average talents around him. Wills is a lockdown right tackle who absolutely possesses the requisite athleticism to succeed in Kliff Kingsbury’s running scheme.

3 (72). S/CB K’Von Wallace, Clemson - The Cardinals can improve their slot defender. With much of the league moving away from smaller, shiftier options to bigger thumpers with good movement, Wallace might be a perfect fit. He played in the box 30% of the time for Clemson last season, and 46% in the slot. I’m sure Adrian Wilson’s safety evaluations are highly regarded in the Cardinals draft room.

4 (114). iDL Leki Fotu, Utah - Jordan Phillips is one space-eater the Cardinals added, but they need more. Pass defense is certainly more important than run defense, but nothing is more demoralizing than never getting off the field because you can’t stop the run, drive after drive.

4 (131). EDGE Derrek Tuszka, North Dakota State - Productive Day 3 pass rushers can be difficult to identify. When in doubt, side with athleticism. Tuszka boasts a 6.87 3-cone, one of the best figures at the position in this class.

6 (202). TE Colby Parkinson, Stanford - Maxx Williams might be the next example of a tight end who may find his form on his second team. But if the Cardinals want even more receiving chops in the slot, Parkinson fits the mold.

7 (222). CB DeMarkus Acy, Missouri - Acy’s 13 pass deflections in 2018 suggests good ball skills, and it shows up on tape. Acy has a good feel for peeling off zones or high pointing targets at the catch point.

 

[Chopper0080]

Chopper, you make a VG argument. The only way that I could make the case for Wills is to remind everyone that there is so much talent at Alabama that it is probably much harder to get PT and be noticed. Iowa turns out vg OL, but they probably have less competition and thus more PT. I have no idea who is better and it will be interesting to follow the careers of both. Seems that both (according to the experts) are vg and will go high in the Draft.

Where I get frustrated in this debate is when people fail to acknowledge that the difference is preference more than anything. In terms of ability and polish, these guys are all pretty close.

If you prefer accepted and preferred measurables, Becton and Andrew Thomas hit those marks best.

If you prefer athleticism, Wirfs and Becton are hands above better.

Level of competition, Wirfs, Wills, and Thomas.

Consistency, Thomas and Wills have less "bad tape" but it is not a big gap.

Daniel Jeremiah says Wirfs is a potential all-world OG and people think it means he can't play OT which is the position he was very successful playing in college. The context that people fail to recognize is that Jeremiah grew up in the Ravens organization which puts hard lines in measurables for OTs. Because Wirfs is not 6'6+ he is not a player that the Ravens would look at as an OT. For other teams it is far less of an issue. So many people advocated for Kyler Murray last year which was a very similar conversation in terms of measurables.

 

[Jetstream Green]

NFL DRAFT NEEDS: NFC WEST

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BY ROTOWORLD STAFF
Updated On: April 16, 2020, 3:03 am ET

Arizona Cardinals

Notable Offseason Additions: WR DeAndre Hopkins, DT Jordan Phillips, LB Devon Kennard, LB De'Vondre Campbell, DT Trevon Coley

Starting Offense
QB: Kyler Murray
RB: Kenyan Drake
WR1: DeAndre Hopkins
WR2: Larry Fitzgerald
WR3: Christian Kirk
TE: Maxx Williams
LT: D.J. Humphries
LG: Justin Pugh
C: Mason Cole
RG: J.R. Sweezy
RT: Marcus Gilbert

Starting Defense
DE: Zach Allen
DE: Corey Peters
NT: Jordan Phillips
MLB Jordan Hicks
MLB: De'Vondre Campbell
OLB: Chandler Jones
OLB: Devon Kennard
CB: Patrick Peterson
CB: Byron Murphy
SCB: Jalen Davis
S: Budda Baker
S: Jalen Thompson

TEAM NEEDS

Offensive line: The Cardinals join the Rams, Dolphins and Jets as the only teams with fewer than $20 million devoted to their offensive line. Kyler Murray improved at avoiding pressure as the season went on, ultimately posting the second-longest average time from snap to sack among all QBs. Still, Arizona has drafted just one offensive lineman with a top-three round pick since 2016. For now, the 2020 Cardinals sure look a lot like the 2019 Browns.

Pass catcher: Obviously adding DeAndre Hopkins was huge, but the Cardinals likely aren't done adding pieces to an offense that coach Kliff Kingsbury would ideally like to be even more four-WR heavy. Larry Fitzgerald has to retire at some point (right?), and Christian Kirk was the only other consistently-reliable pass catcher in this offense last season. Perhaps 2019 draft picks Andy Isabella, KeeSean Johnson and/or Hakeem Butler can step it up in 2020, but either way this offense needs to surround Murray with more talent, regardless of the position.

Secondary: This pass defense was bad against No. 1 WRs (27th in DVOA), TEs (32nd) and RBs (30th) alike last season. Patrick Peterson and Budda Baker should be the only locked-in starters, as the group's other talents simply failed to consistently perform in 2019. The Cardinals were one of just six defenses to allow at least seven net yards per pass attempt.

CARDINALS' 2020 DRAFT PICKS
Norris’ Options

1 (8). OT Jedrick Wills, Alabama - It is imperative that Steve Keim and company elevate the overall talent of the Cardinals offensive line. Kyle Murray’s rookie season was incredible, but he constantly elevated numerous average talents around him. Wills is a lockdown right tackle who absolutely possesses the requisite athleticism to succeed in Kliff Kingsbury’s running scheme.

3 (72). S/CB K’Von Wallace, Clemson - The Cardinals can improve their slot defender. With much of the league moving away from smaller, shiftier options to bigger thumpers with good movement, Wallace might be a perfect fit. He played in the box 30% of the time for Clemson last season, and 46% in the slot. I’m sure Adrian Wilson’s safety evaluations are highly regarded in the Cardinals draft room.

4 (114). iDL Leki Fotu, Utah - Jordan Phillips is one space-eater the Cardinals added, but they need more. Pass defense is certainly more important than run defense, but nothing is more demoralizing than never getting off the field because you can’t stop the run, drive after drive.

4 (131). EDGE Derrek Tuszka, North Dakota State - Productive Day 3 pass rushers can be difficult to identify. When in doubt, side with athleticism. Tuszka boasts a 6.87 3-cone, one of the best figures at the position in this class.

6 (202). TE Colby Parkinson, Stanford - Maxx Williams might be the next example of a tight end who may find his form on his second team. But if the Cardinals want even more receiving chops in the slot, Parkinson fits the mold.

7 (222). CB DeMarkus Acy, Missouri - Acy’s 13 pass deflections in 2018 suggests good ball skills, and it shows up on tape. Acy has a good feel for peeling off zones or high pointing targets at the catch point.

Well, if they are going to pencil in Gilbert as the starting RT, then Alford should be as well at CB

 

[Krangodnzr]

Where I get frustrated in this debate is when people fail to acknowledge that the difference is preference more than anything. In terms of ability and polish, these guys are all pretty close.

If you prefer accepted and preferred measurables, Becton and Andrew Thomas hit those marks best.

If you prefer athleticism, Wirfs and Becton are hands above better.

Level of competition, Wirfs, Wills, and Thomas.

Consistency, Thomas and Wills have less "bad tape" but it is not a big gap.

Daniel Jeremiah says Wirfs is a potential all-world OG and people think it means he can't play OT which is the position he was very successful playing in college. The context that people fail to recognize is that Jeremiah grew up in the Ravens organization which puts hard lines in measurables for OTs. Because Wirfs is not 6'6+ he is not a player that the Ravens would look at as an OT. For other teams it is far less of an issue. So many people advocated for Kyler Murray last year which was a very similar conversation in terms of measurables.

Even as much as I've spoken against drafting Andrew Thomas, he'd still be an upgrade and I'd be stoked about adding him.

I would even be excited if the Cardinals pulled out a "reach" and took Chaisson. This is one of those crazy drafts where there are a lot of prospects I really like and the Cardinals dont really have to reach for need.

 

[cardpa]

NFL DRAFT NEEDS: NFC WEST

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BY ROTOWORLD STAFF
Updated On: April 16, 2020, 3:03 am ET

Arizona Cardinals

Notable Offseason Additions: WR DeAndre Hopkins, DT Jordan Phillips, LB Devon Kennard, LB De'Vondre Campbell, DT Trevon Coley

Starting Offense
QB: Kyler Murray
RB: Kenyan Drake
WR1: DeAndre Hopkins
WR2: Larry Fitzgerald
WR3: Christian Kirk
TE: Maxx Williams
LT: D.J. Humphries
LG: Justin Pugh
C: Mason Cole
RG: J.R. Sweezy
RT: Marcus Gilbert

Starting Defense
DE: Zach Allen
DE: Corey Peters
NT: Jordan Phillips
MLB Jordan Hicks
MLB: De'Vondre Campbell
OLB: Chandler Jones
OLB: Devon Kennard
CB: Patrick Peterson
CB: Byron Murphy
SCB: Jalen Davis
S: Budda Baker
S: Jalen Thompson

TEAM NEEDS

Offensive line: The Cardinals join the Rams, Dolphins and Jets as the only teams with fewer than $20 million devoted to their offensive line. Kyler Murray improved at avoiding pressure as the season went on, ultimately posting the second-longest average time from snap to sack among all QBs. Still, Arizona has drafted just one offensive lineman with a top-three round pick since 2016. For now, the 2020 Cardinals sure look a lot like the 2019 Browns.

Pass catcher: Obviously adding DeAndre Hopkins was huge, but the Cardinals likely aren't done adding pieces to an offense that coach Kliff Kingsbury would ideally like to be even more four-WR heavy. Larry Fitzgerald has to retire at some point (right?), and Christian Kirk was the only other consistently-reliable pass catcher in this offense last season. Perhaps 2019 draft picks Andy Isabella, KeeSean Johnson and/or Hakeem Butler can step it up in 2020, but either way this offense needs to surround Murray with more talent, regardless of the position.

Secondary: This pass defense was bad against No. 1 WRs (27th in DVOA), TEs (32nd) and RBs (30th) alike last season. Patrick Peterson and Budda Baker should be the only locked-in starters, as the group's other talents simply failed to consistently perform in 2019. The Cardinals were one of just six defenses to allow at least seven net yards per pass attempt.

CARDINALS' 2020 DRAFT PICKS
Norris’ Options

1 (8). OT Jedrick Wills, Alabama - It is imperative that Steve Keim and company elevate the overall talent of the Cardinals offensive line. Kyle Murray’s rookie season was incredible, but he constantly elevated numerous average talents around him. Wills is a lockdown right tackle who absolutely possesses the requisite athleticism to succeed in Kliff Kingsbury’s running scheme.

3 (72). S/CB K’Von Wallace, Clemson - The Cardinals can improve their slot defender. With much of the league moving away from smaller, shiftier options to bigger thumpers with good movement, Wallace might be a perfect fit. He played in the box 30% of the time for Clemson last season, and 46% in the slot. I’m sure Adrian Wilson’s safety evaluations are highly regarded in the Cardinals draft room.

4 (114). iDL Leki Fotu, Utah - Jordan Phillips is one space-eater the Cardinals added, but they need more. Pass defense is certainly more important than run defense, but nothing is more demoralizing than never getting off the field because you can’t stop the run, drive after drive.

4 (131). EDGE Derrek Tuszka, North Dakota State - Productive Day 3 pass rushers can be difficult to identify. When in doubt, side with athleticism. Tuszka boasts a 6.87 3-cone, one of the best figures at the position in this class.

6 (202). TE Colby Parkinson, Stanford - Maxx Williams might be the next example of a tight end who may find his form on his second team. But if the Cardinals want even more receiving chops in the slot, Parkinson fits the mold.

7 (222). CB DeMarkus Acy, Missouri - Acy’s 13 pass deflections in 2018 suggests good ball skills, and it shows up on tape. Acy has a good feel for peeling off zones or high pointing targets at the catch point.

This is a stinging statement: " For now, the 2020 Cardinals sure look a lot like the 2019 Browns." Can you imagine if this happened? This site would go absolutely ballistic.

 

[WildBB]

Who is Jalen Davis??

I think we have a K'Von Wallace player in Jalen Thompson or Robert Alford already.

 

[Garthshort]

This is a stinging statement: " For now, the 2020 Cardinals sure look a lot like the 2019 Browns." Can you imagine if this happened? This site would go absolutely ballistic.

I think he means that we can expect an announcement that Freddie Kitchens has been hired as our HC. Might hold off until after the Draft.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Where I get frustrated in this debate is when people fail to acknowledge that the difference is preference more than anything. In terms of ability and polish, these guys are all pretty close.

If you prefer accepted and preferred measurables, Becton and Andrew Thomas hit those marks best.

If you prefer athleticism, Wirfs and Becton are hands above better.

Level of competition, Wirfs, Wills, and Thomas.

Consistency, Thomas and Wills have less "bad tape" but it is not a big gap.

Daniel Jeremiah says Wirfs is a potential all-world OG and people think it means he can't play OT which is the position he was very successful playing in college. The context that people fail to recognize is that Jeremiah grew up in the Ravens organization which puts hard lines in measurables for OTs. Because Wirfs is not 6'6+ he is not a player that the Ravens would look at as an OT. For other teams it is far less of an issue. So many people advocated for Kyler Murray last year which was a very similar conversation in terms of measurables.

Level of competition, Wills, Thomas, Wirfs.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Starting Defense ???
DE: Zach Allen
DE: Corey Peters
NT: Jordan Phillips
MLB Jordan Hicks
MLB: De'Vondre Campbell
OLB: Chandler Jones
OLB: Devon Kennard
CB: Patrick Peterson
CB: Robert Alford***
SCB: Byron Murphy***
S: Budda Baker
S: Jalen Thompson

 

[Ohcrap75]

Who is Jalen Davis??

I think we have a K'Von Wallace player in Jalen Thompson or Robert Alford already.

just about to write this!

 

[Proximo]

I think the cards still have Chris Jones at corner. I thought he played really well as a 3rd/4th corner.

I don't consider cb to be a very big need like they seem to.

 

[Goldfield]

Chris Jones and the other Peterson I thought we’re solid depth

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think the cards still have Chris Jones at corner. I thought he played really well as a 3rd/4th corner.

I don't consider cb to be a very big need like they seem to.

I believe Chris Jones was doing well till a knee injury at Nebraska. He might have been a highly touted prospect going into the draft and happy to see a guy like this hang on to prove his worth

 

[Solar7]

I think the cards still have Chris Jones at corner. I thought he played really well as a 3rd/4th corner.

I don't consider cb to be a very big need like they seem to.

I did some digging, and it appeared Jones isn't a part of this roster. It's inconsistent. Weird one.

 

[daves]

I did some digging, and it appeared Jones isn't a part of this roster. It's inconsistent. Weird one.

He's on the team's official roster and OverTheCap says he's under contract for $750K this season.

...dave

 

[TheCardFan]

ESPN

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[Rohinaz]

ESPN

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Marcus gilbert is 3rd string? Where they come up with that?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Proximo]

ESPN

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weird how they made josh jones a starter, and made Marcus Gilbert 3rd string yet they made our 2 DL’s we just drafted 4th stringers.

 

[GatorAZ]

Marcus gilbert is 3rd string? Where they come up with that?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

He hasn’t played more than half a season in 4 years. He’s a depth guy at this point.

 

[Solar7]

He's on the team's official roster and OverTheCap says he's under contract for $750K this season.

...dave

This is a week or two late in terms of a reply, but when I did the research as of that post, OverTheCap/Spotrac were reporting his initial contract, which was void after being cut midseason. And when he was brought back, there was no indication it was a multi-year deal (which wouldn't make sense).

The official roster hadn't been updated since the end of the season, but I expect we'll have an answer post-draft as that all gets set.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Marcus gilbert is 3rd string? Where they come up with that?

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Fake news. Who listens to ESPN anymore? Especially after they roasted west coast college basketball in the FBI scandal while ignoring Duke, UNC and Kentucky

 

[GuernseyCard]

Fake news. Who listens to ESPN anymore? Especially after they roasted west coast college basketball in the FBI scandal while ignoring Duke, UNC and Kentucky

Perfect description of the term "fake news": anything I disagree with.

 

[TheCardFan]

Here is one from Ourlads...I added the rookies (except for Simmons/Jones...they already had them in these spots).

First thing you notice is our depth is awesome! We upgraded our starting talent and our depth talent.

OLB - Still seems like we need a back-up pure pass rusher (Chandler's back-up).
TE - we need to replace Darrell Daniels
CB - If Alford is healthy and PP21 returns to form, this will be a solid group (with Chris Jones) but we probably need 1 more guy for depth

Camp Battles:

WR - It will be interesting to see development of young guys. I am rooting for IA, Butler, Johnson, and JoJo.
RT - Should be a nice competition vs Gilbert, Jones, and Murray
RG - We need someone to push Sweezy. Maybe Garcia pushes this year (healthy) or Murray/Miles?
C - Hoping Cole or Gaillard can earn the job
DE - A healthy Allen vs Lawrence and Bullard

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