Updated Tournament Watch!

[Black Jesus]

Quit whining. You are all crying about a bad Pendergraft call... Well a bad offensive foul call cost us the game against Kansas and made us go to overtime with our players in foul trouble. A bad call against Stanford with 10 seconds left put Brook Lopez on the line for two and they went up 1, and we had the worst injury problems in the Pac-10.

Here is the outlook injury wise this season. And no I don't care that Harden had the flu because Budinger did too this season. Happens. The reason I bring these injuries up is that these players ARE healthy now and WILL be playing together in the tournament, which has rarely happened this season.

U of A played:
-7 Games without PG Wise (2-5). He is the engine, he allows Bayless, Budinger, and Hill to all get touches. People in Tucson are comparing him to Gardner. Close losses to ASU, Stanford (1 point), and UCLA(2 points).

-4 Games without SG Bayless (1-3). His contribution is obvious, not getting into it. BS that Harden made the Pac-10 team over him.

-13 games without PF Brielmaier(7-6). He is our depth and toughness on the inside with Horne not getting any PT.

Then you look at our out of conference schedule.

We played a tough Virginia team, @ #4 Kansas, #9 Texas A&M, @Illinois, @ UNLV(26-7), and @ #2 Memphis in addition to the extremely tough Pac-10 schedule.

ASU played @ Illinois (lost, we won), LSU, @Nebraska, and #17 Xavier(Good win here). LSU is hardly worth mentioning, and I won't bring up all the cake teams you scheduled.

U of A with ASU's schedule is 22-10. DEAL WITH IT. Great you beat us without Bayless, without Brielmaier and without maybe most importantly Nic Wise. Take your crappy recruiting class and love the fact that no one on your team is going pro early, and work towards next year or this year's NIT.

I will say I thought ASU was deserving, but NOT over U of A. Over Kentrucky maybe. Good job beating Stanford, an injured U of A twice, and USC(should of been twice)... BTW, good luck in the NIT!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Really? They're coming from your camp, not mine. Merely pointing out it ain't safe to boast in Phoenix right now.

Is Loren Wade taking the snub of his alma mater that personally?

I'll wear my Arizona red proudly this week including tonight when I go to the grocery store that's only a few miles from the ASU campus. Trust me, I'll be just fine.

 

[sly fly]

- ASU was snubbed, no two ways about it. Unfortunately, every year this happens to someone. It would have been fun seeing a #12 Sendek Devil team beat a #5. Their zone would have caused fits for someone.

- UA's best chance is to give the ball to Bayless, and tell everybody else to get out of the damn way. As good as Bayless is, I've never seen a UA team lack as much heart or juevos as this one. That being said... and knowing my gambling history (bet the opposite of me)... UA probably wins a couple.

- My early picks: Georgetown, Connecticut, and UCLA. All 3 have coaches who can game plan the hell out of you... not to mention size in the middle. UCLA/Conn are set up to meet early, though.

 

[Russ Smith]

Quit whining. You are all crying about a bad Pendergraft call... Well a bad offensive foul call cost us the game against Kansas and made us go to overtime with our players in foul trouble. A bad call against Stanford with 10 seconds left put Brook Lopez on the line for two and they went up 1, and we had the worst injury problems in the Pac-10.

Here is the outlook injury wise this season. And no I don't care that Harden had the flu because Budinger did too this season. Happens. The reason I bring these injuries up is that these players ARE healthy now and WILL be playing together in the tournament, which has rarely happened this season.

U of A played:
-7 Games without PG Wise (2-5). He is the engine, he allows Bayless, Budinger, and Hill to all get touches. People in Tucson are comparing him to Gardner. Close losses to ASU, Stanford (1 point), and UCLA(2 points).

-4 Games without SG Bayless (1-3). His contribution is obvious, not getting into it. BS that Harden made the Pac-10 team over him.

-13 games without PF Brielmaier(7-6). He is our depth and toughness on the inside with Horne not getting any PT.

Then you look at our out of conference schedule.

We played a tough Virginia team, @ #4 Kansas, #9 Texas A&M, @Illinois, @ UNLV(26-7), and @ #2 Memphis in addition to the extremely tough Pac-10 schedule.

ASU played @ Illinois (lost, we won), LSU, @Nebraska, and #17 Xavier(Good win here). LSU is hardly worth mentioning, and I won't bring up all the cake teams you scheduled.

U of A with ASU's schedule is 22-10. DEAL WITH IT. Great you beat us without Bayless, without Brielmaier and without maybe most importantly Nic Wise. Take your crappy recruiting class and love the fact that no one on your team is going pro early, and work towards next year or this year's NIT.

I will say I thought ASU was deserving, but NOT over U of A. Over Kentrucky maybe. Good job beating Stanford, an injured U of A twice, and USC(should of been twice)... BTW, good luck in the NIT!

UA had injuries but saying worst in the Pac 10 completely ignores the team that won the Pac, UCLA. Started the season without Collison, played several games at less than 100% until he got the brace off. Played essentially the whole season without 6th man Roll. Played multiple games in conference without Luc, then won the conference tourney with Luc out and Love playing with back spasms. Heck even Keefe was supposed to redshirt this year coming off shoulder surgery but they had to cancel his redshirt due to all the other injuries.

Injuries happen, teams play through, UA did.

I have no problem with UA being in I think they're one of the 64 best, but making it ahead of ASU just bugs me, same with Oregon. I know SOS and RPI is important but at the end of the day the way I judge who is better than who is head to head and common opponents, and ASU finished ahead of both UA and Oregon(common opponents) and swept both head to head. I don't see how anybody could say ASU didn't deserve a bid over one of those 2, honestly I'd have picked them for sure. Of the 3 ASU swept both, Oregon swept UA, so UA was 0-4, OU 2-2, and ASU 4-0, and they got left out?

And how can you say with a straight face UA with ASU's schedule is 22-10? With ASU's schedule in the same conference they finished 8-10, ASU 9-9. I personally think of the 3 UA had the worst argument, I think all 3 deserved bids.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Aren't UofA fans always the ones that bitch and moan when others come to their section of the boards? Interesting.

Geez. Is it okay that we share a board for the common interest of tournament selection?

We can go over to the UA board if it makes you feel better.

 

[TJ]

Really? They're coming from your camp, not mine. Merely pointing out it ain't safe to boast in Phoenix right now.

And im sure there are members of the ASU camp that say that you don't deserve to be in.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Geez. Is it okay that we share a board for the common interest of tournament selection?

We can go over to the UA board if it makes you feel better.

Just an observation.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

UA had injuries but saying worst in the Pac 10 completely ignores the team that won the Pac, UCLA. Started the season without Collison, played several games at less than 100% until he got the brace off. Played essentially the whole season without 6th man Roll. Played multiple games in conference without Luc, then won the conference tourney with Luc out and Love playing with back spasms. Heck even Keefe was supposed to redshirt this year coming off shoulder surgery but they had to cancel his redshirt due to all the other injuries.

Injuries happen, teams play through, UA did.

I have no problem with UA being in I think they're one of the 64 best, but making it ahead of ASU just bugs me, same with Oregon. I know SOS and RPI is important but at the end of the day the way I judge who is better than who is head to head and common opponents, and ASU finished ahead of both UA and Oregon(common opponents) and swept both head to head. I don't see how anybody could say ASU didn't deserve a bid over one of those 2, honestly I'd have picked them for sure. Of the 3 ASU swept both, Oregon swept UA, so UA was 0-4, OU 2-2, and ASU 4-0, and they got left out?

Alright I have heard this argument enough today so I am going to rebutt.

I think its pretty obvious that you guys lose the first game in Tempe if Bayless is healthy. He wasn't but that was what a 3 point game? I would say one of the five best players in the Pac-10 ultimately might have made a difference. You might say its conjecture, i would say its logic.

We also lost to Oregon at home without that same player.

As for the game in Tucson? I have already said as much. That was a whupping. Does that make you guys definitively better then us. No. The only one game season is in the tournament Devil fans.

Did you guys beat anybody on the road? No. Did you have juevos to play road games at KU ( a 1 pt loss) and Memphis (another game without Bayless)? No. Did you play UCLA tough EITHER time you played them? God no. You couldn't beat SC either. We did. In LA. Essentially you did a better job of taking care of the middle tier/bad teams that we struggled aginst for watever reason. You beat a good Stanford team who we played tough all three games.

I think the fact that we made the tournament when a) Our legend coach left at the beginning of the season b) lost our starting PG for 7 weeks (Collison was out 6 games Russ) c) Lost our all conference player for 6 games or so d) had no depth and were constantly having to deal with the young Hill's foul trouble e) and had to deal with two coaches in the kids ears and all the controversy that engulfed the program. Oh yeah. The interim coach brought in a complelty different philosophy and style of game too.

So saying all that the fact that we were a debatable team to get in but actually snuck in comfortably and ended up getting a 10 seed and a favorable bracket am I going to apologize for that?

Hell no. So talk all the head to head matchup you guys want. You didn't overcome anything this season and you maxed out. Good for you. Still not good enough.

You won't find me, or anyone on the selection committee apologizing for what the Cats season has ultimately led to for the 24th straight time.

We deserved to be there and we are. Maybe you did too.

But now it doesn't really matter. We have a tournament to prepare for.

 

[Russ Smith]

Alright I have heard this argument enough today so I am going to rebutt.

I think its pretty obvious that you guys lose the first game in Tempe if Bayless is healthy. He wasn't but that was what a 3 point game? I would say one of the five best players in the Pac-10 ultimately might have made a difference. You might say its conjecture, i would say its logic.

We also lost to Oregon at home without that same player.

As for the game in Tucson? I have already said as much. That was a whupping. Does that make you guys definitively better then us. No. The only one game season is in the tournament Devil fans.

Did you guys beat anybody on the road? No. Did you have juevos to play road games at KU ( a 1 pt loss) and Memphis (another game without Bayless)? No. Did you play UCLA tough EITHER time you played them? God no. You couldn't beat SC either. We did. In LA. Essentially you did a better job of taking care of the middle tier/bad teams that we struggled aginst for watever reason. You beat a good Stanford team who we played tough all three games.

I think the fact that we made the tournament when a) Our legend coach left at the beginning of the season b) lost our starting PG for 7 weeks (Collison was out 6 games Russ) c) Lost our all conference player for 6 games or so d) had no depth and were constantly having to deal with the young Hill's foul trouble e) and had to deal with two coaches in the kids ears and all the controversy that engulfed the program. Oh yeah. The interim coach brought in a complelty different philosophy and style of game too.

So saying all that the fact that we were a debatable team to get in but actually snuck in comfortably and ended up getting a 10 seed and a favorable bracket am I going to apologize for that?

Hell no. So talk all the head to head matchup you guys want. You didn't overcome anything this season and you maxed out. Good for you. Still not good enough.

You won't find me, or anyone on the selection committee apologizing for what the Cats season has ultimately led to for the 24th straight time.

We deserved to be there and we are. Maybe you did too.

But now it doesn't really matter. We have a tournament to prepare for.

I don't disagree UA belongs in, but I do disagree with a few points you wrote.

Wise missed 7 games not 7 weeks. One more game than Collison and while he's a starter he's obviously not nearly as important a player as Collison is. UCLA early in the year was playing without 3 of their top 8 players and at the end of the year they beat Stanford without one starter, their 6th man, and their C was playing hurt. I'm not saying you don't factor in UA's injuries obviously you do, but injuries are part of the whole thing. Most NCAA champs have healthy teams, it's just part of the whole thing.

Hill's foul trouble in no way counts the same way as injuries.

I like that UA plays a tough schedule but look at the best teams they actually beat, Fullerton State, A&M, UNLV, USC and WSU, that's the 5 best wins they had IMHO. All 5 tourney teams, I think WSU is the highest seed. UA played a bunch of good teams, and lost to every one of them. Close games for the most part but losses. I guess I should add Illinois to that list UA beat them ASU lost big.

Part of a long season and 18 game conference season is injuries, it sucks when you lose a key player but it happens to teams every year.

Because the 3 teams are in the same conference it's hard not to compare them even though I wouldn't take out UA or Oregon to put ASU in.

Like I said in the first post I don't have an issue with UA being in, I just think it's grossly unfair that ASU didn't get a bid especially when 2 teams who finished behind them in conference did. If there were an Oregon board here I'd be posting the same thing here, but since Oregon also swept UA it's hard to say Oregon was less deserving.

I actually think UA could win 2 games if they play well, in one of my brackets I have them winning the first game, the other one I have them losing, I would probably be just as indecisive if ASU was playing WVU.

ASU should have won more games late in the season that hurt them a ton and I was wrong they didn't sweep Oregon they split with them(Oregon swept UA confused me).

 

[Black Jesus]

UA had injuries but saying worst in the Pac 10 completely ignores the team that won the Pac, UCLA. Started the season without Collison, played several games at less than 100% until he got the brace off. Played essentially the whole season without 6th man Roll. Played multiple games in conference without Luc, then won the conference tourney with Luc out and Love playing with back spasms. Heck even Keefe was supposed to redshirt this year coming off shoulder surgery but they had to cancel his redshirt due to all the other injuries.

And how can you say with a straight face UA with ASU's schedule is 22-10?

Some responses...

First off, Yes Collison was injured a few games, although very early in the season, but it allowed Westbrook to emerge as a star. U of As injury turned into a Laval Lucas-Perry transfer.

Roll is not the 6th man of UCLA by any means. With Collison, Westbrook, and Shipp, Roll wasn't going to get much playing time. To me that would be the equivalent(since we are a worse team) of the wildcats losing Daniel Dillon-NON ISSUE.

Back Spasms don't mean anything, to me at least. Budinger had them for a good portion of the season and Carmelo Anthony had back spasms going into the National Championship and dropped 20 and 10. If you want to bring it up nagging injuries, Bayless has a knee that will probably require offseason surgery that is worse than any back spasms.

I will admit though that Luc missing so many games is a big issue for UCLA, but Luc isn't the same player he was as a freshman. He and McClellan are in the same boat as far as fading out due to injuries. I don't see Luc being more valuable to UCLA with all their frontcourt depth (Love, Aboya, Mata-Real-Ugly) than Brett Breilmaier is to U of A.

Lastly, I can say that U of A would have that record becasue I don't think that U of A loses to any of the cake teams that ASU played at the beginning of the season, and they wouldn't lose to Nebraska and didn't lose to Illinois. I kept the Pac-10 records the same in that estimation.

I agree though, ASU got snubbed, but the only reason they are being compared is because they both have ARIZONA in their title. It shouldn't be a case of one or the other, as I said other schools like Kentucky or Villanova should be compared with ASU.

 

[ajcardfan]

.

I agree though, ASU got snubbed, but the only reason they are being compared is because they both have ARIZONA in their title. It shouldn't be a case of one or the other, as I said other schools like Kentucky or Villanova should be compared with ASU.

I agree with that based on the seeding. But, it's inevitable that the two Arizona schools are compared side-by-side. Even if we weren't guys like Vitale and Bilas keep bringing it up.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think its pretty obvious that you guys lose the first game in Tempe if Bayless is healthy. He wasn't but that was what a 3 point game? I would say one of the five best players in the Pac-10 ultimately might have made a difference. You might say its conjecture, i would say its logic.

It's stupid logic. It's the same logic that had U of A fans saying after the first win, "if we had Bayless we would have won". I forget, did Bayless play in the second game?

 

[HooverDam]

I think its pretty obvious that you guys lose the first game in Tempe if Bayless is healthy. He wasn't but that was what a 3 point game? I would say one of the five best players in the Pac-10 ultimately might have made a difference. You might say its conjecture, i would say its logic.

Actually, thats quite far from logic. Thats just not how sports, especially basketball, works. If Bayless is healthy, its not as if the game is exactly the same, plus UA gets Bayless' 17 or so points. It becomes a completely different game, and who knows what would happen?

If UofA fans can honestly look in their heart and tell themselves that UA is deserving of a 10 seed in the tourney, more power to ya, but your heart is an alcoholic.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Man such crap we didn't get in over oregon, but those two loses to cal and washington and then not winning a pac 10 torunament game really killed us. Also the fact that Georgia won also put a dagger in us. I really think Harden will lead the devils to the tournament next year though so close just didn't make it ugh.

 

[Skkorpion]

Look, I don't think we (ASU) deserved to get in. UA was more deserving but nationally overrated, as was the whole PAC-10, in my opinion.

UA got a terrible draw. Probably one and done or blown out by Duke if they eke by WVU.

Oregon getting in was a joke. When the results are in, I'll be very surprised if any PAC teams other than UCLA make the round of 16, although USC may surprise because they got a good draw.

 

[TJ]

IMO, after looking at stats and schedules, ASU would have had to wait for Ohio State and Virginia Tech to get bids before even being considered for the tourney. Face it, Sun Devils, you werent as close as you thought you were

 

[Gaddabout]

And im sure there are members of the ASU camp that say that you don't deserve to be in.

Yes, me. I don't think you can sit on a bubble like that, reflect on missed opportunities, and complain about having to rely on someone else's opinion of you. I thought ASU would get in, but I didn't think they should have got in based on the mixed merit of their performance this season. In fact very early in conference play I made point that 9-9 would not get ASU into the tournament.

 

[Covert Rain]

I keep reading alot of coulda woulda shoulda. Look ASU should have won more games down the stretch so they wouldn't have been on the bubble. However, I don't want to hear UofA fans say well if we woulda had this player then we woulda done that. That's crap. You didn't.

Bottom line is that both teams could have done better. However, based on what happen this year (not what should have happened), there is no way UofA should have gotten in and not ASU. Period. ASU was more deserving then U of A.

 

[Evil Ash]

IMO, after looking at stats and schedules, ASU would have had to wait for Ohio State and Virginia Tech to get bids before even being considered for the tourney. Face it, Sun Devils, you werent as close as you thought you were

You do know its not the best idea to keep insulting the team that SWEPT your team, right?

I thought both teams should be in or out. Not having ASU and having U of A in based mostly on reputation (and a 10 seat at that) is what gets most of us going. U of A was not a top 40 team PERIOD

 

[Russ Smith]

Some responses...

First off, Yes Collison was injured a few games, although very early in the season, but it allowed Westbrook to emerge as a star. U of As injury turned into a Laval Lucas-Perry transfer.

Roll is not the 6th man of UCLA by any means. With Collison, Westbrook, and Shipp, Roll wasn't going to get much playing time. To me that would be the equivalent(since we are a worse team) of the wildcats losing Daniel Dillon-NON ISSUE.

Back Spasms don't mean anything, to me at least. Budinger had them for a good portion of the season and Carmelo Anthony had back spasms going into the National Championship and dropped 20 and 10. If you want to bring it up nagging injuries, Bayless has a knee that will probably require offseason surgery that is worse than any back spasms.

I will admit though that Luc missing so many games is a big issue for UCLA, but Luc isn't the same player he was as a freshman. He and McClellan are in the same boat as far as fading out due to injuries. I don't see Luc being more valuable to UCLA with all their frontcourt depth (Love, Aboya, Mata-Real-Ugly) than Brett Breilmaier is to U of A.

Lastly, I can say that U of A would have that record becasue I don't think that U of A loses to any of the cake teams that ASU played at the beginning of the season, and they wouldn't lose to Nebraska and didn't lose to Illinois. I kept the Pac-10 records the same in that estimation.

I agree though, ASU got snubbed, but the only reason they are being compared is because they both have ARIZONA in their title. It shouldn't be a case of one or the other, as I said other schools like Kentucky or Villanova should be compared with ASU.

Love could barely walk in the first half until the back loosened up so yeah in that one game his back was a large factor. He couldn't even stand up to shoot FT's in the first half.

Injuries happen, how good would Cal be if Theo Robertson and Amoke don't miss the whole season? They're not back of course but teams play through injuries. You can't argue UA has their players back and deserve a bonus for that and then point out that Bayless needs offseason surgery, is he back or not?

I have a bigger problem with say UK than UA. UK got in IMHO for 2 reasons, better RPI(which I'm not a big fan of) and because Georgia won the SEC tourney. Georgia beat UK in the tourney, if Georgia loses their next game, UK is out IMHO, but because Georgia won the whole thing the committee said hey maybe that UK loss isn't so bad? Throw in the UK tradition and they get in. They're missing one of their best players in Patterson, they had ugly early season losses, and they played in a clearly down conference.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You do know its not the best idea to keep insulting the team that SWEPT your team, right?

Why? You're in the NIT, we're in the dance. We have the last laugh this year no matter what happened earlier in the season.

I thought both teams should be in or out. Not having ASU and having U of A in based mostly on reputation (and a 10 seat at that) is what gets most of us going. U of A was not a top 40 team PERIOD

Arizona didn't get in on reputation, they got in because the committee has ALWAYS rewarded teams that play difficult OOC schedules. Just as the committee always penalizes teams for playing weak schedules. This isn't some big secret, every AD and coach in the country knows how they pick and choose teams on Selection Sunday. It's really not difficult a concept to grasp that the selection had absolutely nothing to do with ASU vs. UA. UA got in with a fair amount of breathing room, ASU's biggest speed bumps in the selection process were teams like 'Nova and Kentucky who might or might not have better overall resumes than ASU.

I know you ASU fans are new at this whole college basketball thing, but it's probably time you brush up on the NCAA Selection process and how the Tournament works. Almost every ASU fan on this board is coming off as very uninformed.

 

[ajcardfan]

It's really not difficult a concept to grasp that the selection had absolutely nothing to do with ASU vs. UA. UA got in with a fair amount of breathing room, ASU's biggest speed bumps in the selection process were teams like 'Nova and Kentucky who might or might not have better overall resumes than ASU.

I know you ASU fans are new at this whole college basketball thing, but it's probably time you brush up on the NCAA Selection process and how the Tournament works. Almost every ASU fan on this board is coming off as very uninformed.

In our defense, we're not the only ones comparing the two schools and talking about the head-to-head games. Several in the media have, with Dick Vitale squawking about it the loudest.

But, whatever... I don't begrudge UofA it's slot. Sendek still has ASU ahead of schedule. Next year, not making the tournament would be a bigger disappointment.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Almost every ASU fan on this board is coming off as very uninformed.

Cute jab, but that is your MO. Most ASU fans realize that seeds in the tourney aren't based on who is the best team, but based on abstracts such as accounting for injury and tradition. That is what happens when you have a system run by 6 of the 10 members never playing basketball, or a rating system (RPI) that rewards a team like Kentucky for getting blown out by a much better ranking. Once again, congrats on putting together such a stacked non-conference schedule, nice to see you couldn't beat one of those teams.

Bragging rights are based on head to head matchups, and we have the season sweep. After the Cats lose again in the 1st or 2nd round we can start talking football again, I am sure Stoops will have the boys fired up for spring practice!

 

[nashman]

Stupid selection committee, so if you schedule a hard OOC and lose all the games thats better than winning more games? Ridiculous ASU should be in over UofA they got the shaft, UofA will get bounced quick!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Cute jab, but that is your MO. Most ASU fans realize that seeds in the tourney aren't based on who is the best team, but based on abstracts such as accounting for injury and tradition. That is what happens when you have a system run by 6 of the 10 members never playing basketball, or a rating system (RPI) that rewards a team like Kentucky for getting blown out by a much better ranking. Once again, congrats on putting together such a stacked non-conference schedule, nice to see you couldn't beat one of those teams.

Bragging rights are based on head to head matchups, and we have the season sweep. After the Cats lose again in the 1st or 2nd round we can start talking football again, I am sure Stoops will have the boys fired up for spring practice!

ARIZONA STATE!!!

ALABAMA STATE!!!!

WEDNESDAY NIGHT!

HEART PUMPING NIT ACTION IN TEMPE!!!!

NIT: ITS FANNNNN-TASTIC!!