Value of our assets

[Hoop Head]

What is the value of the assets we have? Could we realistically make a run at a superstar if they were available? I know we could have made a play for Irving in the offseason but his fit was questionable and I think we made the right move passing on him but there was the talk of Porzingis being available before Irving where some people here didn't want to trade Chriss in a package for him, which is laughable now. Outside of Booker and Warren though do any of our young guys carry much trade value? I'm talking about Bender, Chriss, Ulis, and Jackson.

Outside of the young players we have some vets we can trade in Chandler, Dudley, and Monroe. Might as well include Len there but he's a dud and might net a 2nd rounder from a playoff team who needs rim protection. So what could the others get in return?

Also how would you rate the pick we have from Milwaukee? What sort of player could we get for that, or what could that help us do? It might help more than the 2nd pick from Miami that we get in 2021 but I don't see that being more valuable than the Miami pick we get this year. What do you make of the Miami picks we have also?

Also I guess I'm curious what people think Warren is worth at this point now that he's locked up long term. Comparing his deal to other SF's who have hit FA the last few years I think everyone can recognize he's on a very good team/cap friendly contract but what would you trade him for? I don't think we should trade him this year unless we can bring in a legit star because that will just put too much of a load on Booker's shoulders. He already has to do too much for this team and losing TJ for more "assets" might turn him against management. He's been patient and has said all of the right things about this being a young team and he knows we'll struggle to win right now but we're building something, he needs to see us building a team and not tearing one down just so we can say we can trade for a star if one becomes available.

 

[Phrazbit]

This is a question we can sit on until June or July... we don't need to be making any major plays. However, losing Bledsoe for next to nothing hurts, we should've moved him last February.

Probably the best thing to happen the last several months was Warren's contract. That is a massive steal. He is legit. If he put up the numbers he has right now all year he'd have gotten waaaaaaay more on the open market.

Also, not panic extending Len when all those trash centers got paid... that was good, because he freaking sucks.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not advocating trading any players or picks right now, I'm just curious what people think our assets are worth. Mainly our picks and our youth. Basically everyone other than Booker and our 1st round pick should be available, our pick should only be available if protected for years to come since we have other picks we can trade.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm not advocating trading any players or picks right now, I'm just curious what people think our assets are worth. Mainly our picks and our youth. Basically everyone other than Booker and our 1st round pick should be available, our pick should only be available if protected for years to come since we have other picks we can trade.

Well, if that is your only metric, then yeah, I think we can put as good of an offer as just about anyone.

People are down on Bender but he has real value, Jackson does too, as do the Miami picks (they're going nowhere fast), as do our picks. We can make a serious move if a star became available... less than we had before we lost Bledsoe for beans, but still, we have a war chest.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think Bledsoe had much value, he had value in a Kyrie trade but the options were limited there. I think the only teams he could have been moved to were teams looking to swap PG's, like Detroit with Reggie Jackson. Monroe's salary will work better added with a young player than Bledsoe since Monroe is expiring while Bledsoe had another year. Monroe is a rental or expiring contract, so we should get value from him.

I'm curious how teams around the league view Chriss and Bender. Ulis is probably worth a few 2nd rounders and for that I'd rather keep him as a backup, the problem is he's only a backup. We need to get a starting caliber PG in here to help Booker offensively. Out of Chriss and Bender though, which is viewed higher and is that a consensus across the league or would their value be different to different teams in that some would favor Chriss while others favor Bender. I think Bender has a higher ceiling but since Chriss has been starting he's got the coaching staff's attention but I think naming him as a starter last year and again this year was a mistake. He looked good in his first game under Triano as a starter but that was it really. Bender has looked better each game since then and especially in the last few games. He should be starting over Chriss but we may be able to avoid issues with Chriss pouting for being benched again if we start Chandler and Monroe together but I'm not sure how the lineup will look once Tyson returns.

 

[pokerface]

Really, we have goods for sure but they are 'tainted'. First rounders with protections on them...Some players too good to trade...others not good enough. Old guys with short contracts. Bledsoe was our best tradable blue chip and we got jack for him because we waited too long to deal him.

Too bad we couldn't have snagged Porzingis in the offseason because now his stock is so high all the draft picks in the world won't get him. It's hard to trade for a star without Booker or Jackson being involved...with picks.

 

[pokerface]

It's hard to talk in generalities about getting a star or trades without exact specifics involved. Everything is conditional.. everything is unique. Just because one team pulls off a trade doesn't mean it's a standard now. That's why it's hard to judge sometimes on player values.

 

[pokerface]

The real question you really want to know is "Can we get a superstar with our odds and ends"...You want a "superstar" and not include Booker OR our first rounder?? And you accused me of treating our team like a video game? Booker is not even an all star yet and our first rounder could end up nothing. You don't want much homie...

 

[overseascardfan]

IMO, the best thing PHX can do is continuing to draft and keep multiple picks in hope that one pans out or if you collect enough young talent (prospects), you could package more for a good player.

 

[SirStefan32]

If a star is available, Suns' pick should most definitely be in play. As of today, they COULD trade 4 first-round picks, a bunch of second-round picks, and anyone but Booker. There is a big expiring contract in Monroe, a few former top-10 picks. I am sure there is a team that can beat that, but probably not many teams.

 

[overseascardfan]

If a star is available, Suns' pick should most definitely be in play. As of today, they COULD trade 4 first-round picks, a bunch of second-round picks, and anyone but Booker. There is a big expiring contract in Monroe, a few former top-10 picks. I am sure there is a team that can beat that, but probably not many teams.

Yeah but right now what stars are rumored to be on the block? It seems that all the disgruntled players are now on new teams and teams usually do all they can to keep their star players especially when they are happy where they are. I know eventually the salary cap will become an issue with teams as the number of teams with ample space is shrinking but with Birds Rights option teams can keep big stars and not have to worry about luxury tax, correct or am I wrong?

 

[Hoop Head]

The real question you really want to know is "Can we get a superstar with our odds and ends"...You want a "superstar" and not include Booker OR our first rounder?? And you accused me of treating our team like a video game? Booker is not even an all star yet and our first rounder could end up nothing. You don't want much homie...

I never said our assets would get a star, I said that our own pick should not be traded without protection. It all depends on who is available. We have a good amount of assets, we can send 3 firsts to a team without giving up a single one of our own in addition to a player with potential on a rookie contract at virtually any position a team could ask for. It all depends on who is available. Of course trading Booker for a more established star isn't a good idea. We'd end up taking steps back if we moved him for a star like Anthony Davis, just using him as an example, because it would cost us more than just Booker so we'd have 1 star player and lose a number of trade chips to try and rebuild around a different player.

What I want to know is what we could do with the players we have. I haven't seen enough out of Bender, Chriss, or Ulis to think they'll cover their position for years to come and if those players could be moved to upgrade the roster at PG, PF, or C. What could Chandler and Chriss get in a trade, or Monroe and Chriss? The only trade for a star we've been in the conversation for was Kyrie and part of the issue with that deal was we were swapping PG's. Typically when players are traded for someone who plays the same position one team gets the short end of the stick. However we might be able to bring in a solid PG if we moved one of our young bigs with a vet, they'd be included to make the salaries work.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yeah but right now what stars are rumored to be on the block? It seems that all the disgruntled players are now on new teams and teams usually do all they can to keep their star players especially when they are happy where they are. I know eventually the salary cap will become an issue with teams as the number of teams with ample space is shrinking but with Birds Rights option teams can keep big stars and not have to worry about luxury tax, correct or am I wrong?

Teams still have to worry about the luxury tax, that is set point about 20 million above the salary cap. That line can be exceeded while resigning players if a team has their bird rights but if they go over that luxury tax mark then they're paying the dollar for dollar tax for every bit they go over that line. There is also the repeater tax where if a team has been over that luxury tax line for consecutive years their bill is higher with some teams having to pay 2 dollars of tax for every one dollar over that line. I believe the Cavs are paying that this season.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

The only hope the Suns have is drafting a super....super star. Oh, and maybe someone who could actually coherently coach a team...that would be a great start.

 

[pokerface]

"We have a ton of good amount of assets, we can send 3 firsts to a team without giving up a single one of our own in addition to a player with potential on a rookie contract at virtually any position a team could ask for."

If a team offered up three protected first rounders with a player (let's say Chriss) would you take that for Booker? I wouldn't. Booker isn't even an all-star and I wouldn't do it. That's how other teams view this. If they give up a star they want a young stud and maybe a pick.

 

[Cheesebeef]

"We have a ton of good amount of assets, we can send 3 firsts to a team without giving up a single one of our own in addition to a player with potential on a rookie contract at virtually any position a team could ask for."

If a team offered up three protected first rounders with a player (let's say Chriss) would you take that for Booker? I wouldn't. Booker isn't even an all-star and I wouldn't do it. That's how other teams view this. If they give up a star they want a young stud and maybe a pick.

Agreed. A bunch of picks with protection isn't that great as far as assets are concerned, IMO.

 

[pokerface]

Agreed. A bunch of picks with protection isn't that great as far as assets are concerned, IMO.

I view the picks as used more often in moving up in the draft versus landing a star player. Unless the pick has already been assigned as top three then that has some real value.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Monroe has a bit more value than we might think. He certainly has value as a very large expiring. But he is also a productive center that could really help a team in the playoffs. Cleveland is a classic example. Tristan Thompson will not cut it for that team. They need an offensive presence down low. Monroe would be a huge addition for them.

He also has value with transferable bird rights. If Cleveland decides they want Monroe long term AND they want to keep LeBron, then they can go over the cap to resign MOnroe if they trade for him now, even if it is a reasonable contract. They would have difficulty clearly the space to sign Monroe otherwise. The same would be true for Golden State, OKC, Miami, Washington, Portland, Clippers, Toronto, Charlotte, Detroit, Boston, Denver and even NYK. All those teams will be over the cap next summer based upon present commitments unless they make trades to clear salary. But they could trade for Monroe now and then resign him with his Bird rights. The beautiful thing about it for those teams is that they could also let him go if he does not work out for them. Its a win-win for teams projected to be over the cap.

Except for what they would have to give up to us to get him.

I say we keep playing him. If he plays well, it is good for the Suns whether he is traded or not.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think it's easy to trade for a star unless it's the right situation. This usually happens when a team realizes they will not be able to afford to keep all their key players going forward or they choose to rebuild. Also the team trading for a star usually needs to provide cap relief.

The simple answer is for the Suns to draft well and be opportunistic when the right opportunity presents itself whether in the draft, trades or free agency.

Also I would not dis-value conditional picks. If the draft proves anything there are usually good players that fall. Sometimes all that is shiny is not gold.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Having lots of draft picks helps. GM's are going to miss on some draft picks. Its just going to happen. But having more opportunities to hit on a pick is a good thing.

 

[Mainstreet]

Agreed. A bunch of picks with protection isn't that great as far as assets are concerned, IMO.

I don't see many future unprotected first round draft picks being traded far into the future anymore.

It's just a fact teams are putting protection on their first round picks. Most teams are not the Nets.

Look at the Lakers pick that the Suns traded for Knight. It's looking pretty good right now. It had protection.

 

[Raze]

The biggest problem we have is that we are in a GM downward spiral on trades. We continually trade low on our assets. We traded low on Morris, Dragic, IT, and Bledsoe. 3 of them were disgruntled BEFORE we traded them. The FO waits to last possible worst minute to make a trade.

Our best bet is to build up the assets that we have that don't fit our grand scheme (ala compliment the one star we have), and trade them off when they are high. Our trade partner should have a star player who is publicly disgruntled and buy low. I can't believe how inept our FO is with trades.

That means you can't trade Chriss, Bender, Ulis, or Jackson right now.

The ideal time to trade Ulis and Chriss would have been after the season ended. The problem was we had an inept coach and FO. So no point in trading them now unless someone was overpaying.

Personally, I'd keep Bender and Jackson off the table unless we were getting a star that matches Booker.

The only tradeable pieces right now are Warren and Monroe.

If it's true the Pelicans are selling, I'd go all out for Anthony Davis. I'd offer Monroe, Warren, Chandler, Len, Chriss, Ulis, Knight, my grandmother, and Bender if it were possible. To sweeten the pot they can have all our picks for the next four seasons. (But they have to take Sarver. That's non negotiable).

In all seriousness, make them an offer they can't refuse. If we could end up with Booker, Jackson, and Davis I'd call it a successful trade. Next year, sign a solid pass first/D minded PG with our cap space and a solid defensive big man and you've got the makings of real team.

 

[pokerface]

I don't see many future unprotected first round draft picks being traded far into the future anymore.

It's just a fact teams are putting protection on their first round picks. Most teams are not the Nets.


Look at the Lakers pick that the Suns traded for Knight. It's looking pretty good right now. It had protection.

True. But that's not the whole story. I feel the Bucks pick is heavily protected (on both sides) but the Miami picks not near as much. Plus what are second rounders worth? Although we have a slew of them...

 

[pokerface]

The biggest problem we have is that we are in a GM downward spiral on trades. We continually trade low on our assets. We traded low on Morris, Dragic, IT, and Bledsoe. 3 of them were disgruntled BEFORE we traded them. The FO waits to last possible worst minute to make a trade.

Our best bet is to build up the assets that we have that don't fit our grand scheme (ala compliment the one star we have), and trade them off when they are high. Our trade partner should have a star player who is publicly disgruntled and buy low. I can't believe how inept our FO is with trades.

That means you can't trade Chriss, Bender, Ulis, or Jackson right now.

The ideal time to trade Ulis and Chriss would have been after the season ended. The problem was we had an inept coach and FO. So no point in trading them now unless someone was overpaying.

Personally, I'd keep Bender and Jackson off the table unless we were getting a star that matches Booker.

The only tradeable pieces right now are Warren and Monroe.

If it's true the Pelicans are selling, I'd go all out for Anthony Davis. I'd offer Monroe, Warren, Chandler, Len, Chriss, Ulis, Knight, my grandmother, and Bender if it were possible. To sweeten the pot they can have all our picks for the next four seasons. (But they have to take Sarver. That's non negotiable).

In all seriousness, make them an offer they can't refuse. If we could end up with Booker, Jackson, and Davis I'd call it a successful trade. Next year, sign a solid pass first/D minded PG with our cap space and a solid defensive big man and you've got the makings of real team.

 

[Mainstreet]

True. But that's not the whole story. I feel the Bucks pick is heavily protected (on both sides) but the Miami picks not near as much. Plus what are second rounders worth? Although we have a slew of them...

The point is that most first round picks being traded in today's NBA have protection. The other picks find their value in the player selected or in trade.